Intrigued, but…

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Intrigued, but…

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Intrigued, but…

  • Intrigued, but…

  • Michael Root

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 2:53 pm

    Why is 40 miles a day on solar panels a big deal? It’s nothing really. Why add the cost and weight of this relatively useless feature to the car? Wouldn’t it make more sense to evolve the aerodynamics and light weight into a more conventional four wheeler?

    What is the cost of the 1,000 mile range model? Considering the excellent charging infrastructure that is developing, it seems there is a cost/benefit issue to consider. Is it true the car does not have DC fast charging? That would be a deal breaker for me.

  • Cameron Eisner

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 3:27 pm

    40 miles a day is a little more than the average American drives per day. So the idea is if you drive less than 40 miles a day you will never have to plug it in. You will charge purely from the sun, never paying a cent for charging and not taxing the grid either.

    They do have fast charging. We don’t know exact rate yet, but the general assumption is 50kw which will be roughly equivalent to 500mi/hr, or what a Tesla model 3 gets on a 250kw charger.

  • Alain Chuzel

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 3:29 pm

    A. It’s not “40 miles a day”.

    B. Whatever it is, it may be something to others. Maybe even a big deal.

    C. Your “tone” bothers me so I’ll be taking my leave now…..

    • Michael Root

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 7:53 am

      Lol! Tone does not translate to messaging so don’t be so sensitive.

      • Alain Chuzel

        Member
        June 5, 2022 at 8:56 am

        Well there’s you problem. “Tone” very much “translates” to messaging. Don’t be so dense.

        • Michael Root

          Member
          June 5, 2022 at 2:00 pm

          You have the problem, not me. Don’t be so obtuse. ROFL.

          • Alain Chuzel

            Member
            June 5, 2022 at 2:08 pm

            Well there’s, yet another, of your problems. Having not reached the peak on your climb up “Mount Stupid”. (Lol, ROFL, BM, BH, LMNOP, AlphaBetaGamma….)

  • Markus Schmid

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 4:15 pm

    In my case, this “relatively useless feature” of solar charging will drop my electricity costs for commuting and travelling close to zero (= less than $100 per year), in spite of living at a place where the sun shines way less often and less intensely than let’s say in California.

  • John Voules

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 4:26 pm

    Consider it an added convenience feature…also u do not need to add the whole battery package. Even when you have just the base solar, you will pleasantly be surprised. Imagine parking your car and after work or any longer outing, you come back to your car to discover you actually now have a fuller tank. Maybe park in long term airport lot and comeback to a fully charged vehicle. Consider also that it would extend the time between charging it yourself.

    I have ordered both of mine with complete solar….if I ever sell, would also be more marketable.

  • Len Nowak

    Moderator
    June 4, 2022 at 5:12 pm

    Hi,

    If you go to https://aptera.us there is a FAQ section where you can search most of these questions

    Also you can go to Reserve to build an Aptera with the 100kWh and any other option for a price

    In an old video Chris Anthony mentioned the solar cells only weigh a few pounds. As you know it comes standard with the arrays on the roof , dash and tail(<)….front hood and back hatch arrays are optional for a total 700W system

    I hope that helps

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Len Nowak.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by  bbelcamino.

    Aptera

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 5:37 pm

    @Michael Root Aptera will have CCS DC fast charging. It will also accept L1 and L2 AC charging.

    Perhaps where you live there is an excellent charging infrastructure but, for me, the closest non-Tesla DCFC is 297 miles away. If my state (and the states nearby) hold true-to-form, they will wait until the last possible moment to implement the Federal charger-installation plan and then do the absolute minimum required. I believe their deadline to have used the funds is 2025 or thereabouts, so I’m not expecting to see any charging infrastructure improvements before then.

    • Michael Root

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 7:55 am

      What state would that be? Just curious because even in remote Nebraska, I had no problems finding one within range.

  • Joel Smith

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 5:46 pm

    Michael, from your point of view (as described by you), the Aptera may just not be for you. Nobody will dispute that this first model is a niche market vehicle. If their marketing targets don’t appeal to you, that’s okay. Maybe the four wheel vehicle that they want to develop next will suit you better. Success at selling this one to the niche target audience that they have selected is how they intend to fund the next. Lessons learned from this initial model should be applicable to the next also. If that includes recognizing demand for a no-solar option, then you may get your wish there too.

    Point is that the added PV pushes another right button for a lot of folks (20,000+ so far) and not just for practical or economically sound reasons. I could discourse at length why the ensemble appeals to me, but if you are looking from a sufficiently different perspective, you probably won’t care, or just reckon I am wrong. Our pluralistic society being what it is, that’s okay.

    • Michael Root

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 7:58 am

      Well, I think you nailed me perfectly. I am a limited funds, today buyer and unfortunately, I can’t treat my cars as toys. If I could, I would be buying a 1970 Pontiac Formula 400, not an Aptera. Lol!

  • Loren Gilbert

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 7:13 pm

    I put about 10,000 miles a year on my Kia Forte which gets about 29 miles to the gallon. The price of gasoline today, here in Colorado, is $4.59/gal. That means that I spend about $1580 a year on gas. If I get 40 miles of charge on just 250 days of the year then that means that I will save $1580 a year with my Aptera. Apertas’s charge calculation for where I live indicates that I will have to charge up my Aptera twice a year. At the cost of electricity where I live that will cost me $8.50. So worst case scenario I will save $1571.50 a year in avoided fueling costs.

    Tell me again why this is not a big deal.

    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 6:39 am

      I ran the numbers for Denver, Colorado. With “full solar”, expect on the order of 11,600 miles solar miles! (Assumes full solar is, indeed, 700 watts at “peak sun” and consumption is, indeed, 0.1 kw-hrs per mile)

  • Dennis Swaney

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 8:07 pm

    Thank you for not buying one! That opens up a spot for a deserving buyer.

  • Qiang Fu

    Member
    June 4, 2022 at 9:05 pm

    I believe Aptera is charged at 500 mile/hour. Very few EVs currently in the market can beat that. Also, since you are looking at 1000 mile version, most of the time the consideration is whether a L2 charger is available overnight instead of DC fast chargers.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      June 4, 2022 at 10:15 pm

      @Qiang Fu – While Aptera travels more miles per kW than other EVs it does not, actually, charge its battery pack faster. At this point it seems as if Aptera’s DC charging speed will be limited to 50 kW – so fully charging a 100 kWh battery would take about 2 hours – and from 20% to 80%, a little over an hour. Aptera is still considering using a 3.3 kW on-board AC charger – so 30 hours on L2 to fully-charge that 100 kWh pack – or 18 hours from 20% to 80%. If you have only L1 available, those hours double.

      • Qiang Fu

        Member
        June 5, 2022 at 6:28 am

        Yes, kerbe2705, I think our notes agree: 50kwh/hour = 500 mile/hour for Aptera.

      • Michael Root

        Member
        June 5, 2022 at 2:04 pm

        That’s interesting on the 3.3kw onboard charger. Will that be gas powered like the BMW i3?

        • Alain Chuzel

          Member
          June 6, 2022 at 7:01 am

          The “3.3kw onboard charger” that kerbe2705 mentioned is likely just a type of “rectifier” to convert the L2 (230 vac) to battery pack voltage (DC).

          Perhaps someone else can clarify all this but I’m pretty sure no gasoline is required!

  • Russell Fauver

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 6:36 am

    40 miles for doing nothing more than leaving the car parked while I’m at work is pretty sweet in my book. It is one of the things that sold me on this vehicle.

  • Joshua Caldwell

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 6:50 am

    40mi a day on solar panels is important to use on the East Coast where hurricanes knock out the power, and to those on the West Coast where forest fires, earthquakes, and a shitty power company knock out the power. I certainly would not buy a Tesla or any other EV without an independent power source, only Hybrids. Everyone between the mountains is expected to stay on their gas vehicles given that is where oil and ethanol comes from, and cities are huge distances apart, so EVs probably not become common there for decades, nor would they have the need for solar panels as a backup.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 7:17 am

      When power goes out gas stations don’t function, there is no advantage to having a gas car in an emergency vs an EV. In fact I’d say it’s just the opposite. Your EV will be fully charged when the storm hits because it’s always plugged in at home. If you prepare for a storm and fill your gas car before it hits then you can start with a full tank but lots of people won’t do that so they’ll have only the fuel that’s already in their tank.

  • Francis Giroux

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 7:11 am

    “Its nothing really” might become a life saver under any of these conditions:

    Power goes out in your area for an extended time.

    You run out of miles a good distance from a charger.

    You have no other way to power your furnace when power goes out.

    You don’t have to pay Bidenormous amounts of money for fuel.

    You don’t have an electric generator or any solar panels and batteries on your home.

    I’m sure you can see other ways these solar panels prepare you for unexpected downturns.

    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 7:39 am

      “Bidenormous amounts of money for fuel”(?) Give me a break…..

      • Bart Cunningham

        Member
        June 8, 2022 at 2:18 am

        I must agree with you on this one!

  • Jonah Jorgenson

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 7:29 am

    Michael,

    This may come as a surprise to you, but the world of rational judgement does not revolved around your shallow, non informed opinions. Quite the opposite as you can see from the posts on this thread.

    I would suggest you do even a little objective research before you expose your biased opinions on this forum.

    Your pronouncements may preclude you from availing yourself of the many benefits of this vehicle. It is like “Cutting your nose off to spite your face” as my grandfather would say

    • Alain Chuzel

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 7:40 am

      Very well said sir!

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        June 5, 2022 at 7:42 am

        Inspired by your posts on this thread! 👍😄

    • Michael Root

      Member
      June 5, 2022 at 8:05 am

      Jeez. I can see you have the Aptera religion but no need to attack a valid opposing opinion that way. It’s an important question and one that has been accurately answered by several folk here, no thanks to you

      The only surprise raised by your irrelevant answer is the hostility of it.

      • Alain Chuzel

        Member
        June 5, 2022 at 8:57 am

        Look in the mirror sir.

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        June 5, 2022 at 12:23 pm

        Let me add my concurrence to Alain’s statement. You were out of line calling my neighbor an idiot. Grow up!

        • Michael Root

          Member
          June 5, 2022 at 2:06 pm

          Very well. His decision to pay $40k for a 2018 Bolt was idiotic. How’s that?

          You guys are a riot! Keep it up! Lol.

          • Ray Holan

            Moderator
            June 5, 2022 at 4:30 pm

            Michael, you are welcome to share your opinions here, but we ask you, just like we ask everyone, to keep responses friendly. Thanks.

            • Michael Root

              Member
              June 5, 2022 at 6:52 pm

              If you study the thread, you will see I am being antagonized for my opinion. I don’t care really it’s just stupid talk. I’ve nothing to be sorry for.

            • Ray Holan

              Moderator
              June 6, 2022 at 8:28 am

              Once again, this forum is for friendly discussion. We try to allow and encourage different opinions that are free of wording that others might experience as personal attacks or challenges. I think our ideal is that both sides of a posting exchange in a thread can step back and take responsibility for what happens in an interaction.

            • Alain Chuzel

              Member
              June 6, 2022 at 7:03 am

              I’m taking up a collection to buy someone a mirror. /s

            • Roland Smith

              Member
              June 7, 2022 at 7:03 am

              A couple of people on this thread are operating under the mistaken idea that this is Twitter.

  • IA -1

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 2:19 pm

    Michael, 40 miles a day on solar panels is not a big deal for you, but for me (and I assume a substantial number of reservation holders) is the main selling point.

    I drive about 6 miles per day commuting to work and back, and I very rarely exceed 40 miles per day. That means a free ride for me. If I exceed 40 miles a day one time per week, the battery will recharge on the other days I drive 6 miles per day, so I still won’t have to plug the vehicle for charging.

    Also, the weight of the 1000 mile battery exceeds the weight of the solar charging system multiple times, so I have no further comments about this. I have the 400 mile battery reservation, but I can do just fine with the 250 mile battery. I will make my final decision after I see if Aptera will get the $7,500 tax credit. If not, I’ll get the 250 mile battery.

    I have other concerns about Aptera, and I have mentioned them at other forum posts, but for me the main selling point is the solar charging which comes in a package with great efficiency.

  • Laurel Thomsen

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 8:21 pm

    More miles from solar and four seats would be great of course, but as others have said, depending on your driving habits, 40 miles a day could mean rarely needing to charge at all. Being a renter, and with electricity currently included as a flat rate in my rent, I wouldn’t be able to charge an electric vehicle at home without some serious discussions about cost, setup requirements for a charging station, etc. Since I work from home much of the time and live about a half hour out into the country, I think the sun could conceivably charge the car enough to get me through the rest of the week and then I could top it off at the countless charging stations in town for longer trips if needed.

    I’m personally just thrilled that this technology is being considered at all. My extended family pooled their money to buy me a first year Prius as my high school graduation gift back in 2001. We had to reserve it ahead of time and wait about 6 months. It was the only car I wanted because leaving the smallest footprint was important to me as I entered adulthood. It was pretty neat to take it on road trips all over the Western US and Canada in those first few years. People would frequently stop me to ask whether the hybrid technology could keep up with traffic, make it up a mountain, etc. After a few years people stopped questioning it and now probably half the cars on the road are hybrids. My Prius has been a wonderful car all these years, and still going strong, but I’m anticipating that it will likely need more work than the car is worth within the next 2-3 years. I’m considering reserving an Aptera… I lucked out once taking a chance on brand new technology… 🤞🏼

  • LeRoy Coverdale

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 9:12 pm

    Since I live in a small city in Idaho, it’s a good thing since I did reserve one, I have wanted an Aptera since 2009 when I first saw one! Also since my vehicle sits in a yard all week because I drive a semi truck, I would not uave to worry about charging at all! I’m on the road about 8 days a week and home for about two to three days, and I rarely drive more than 300 miles during my home time, so the solar charging feature is extremely important to me and to the environment, and we also have a tesla charging station in twin falls if I ever need to use it

  • Riley ________________________________

    Member
    June 5, 2022 at 10:22 pm

    I pay $100 per month to charge my tesla for a 40 mile round trip commute. I live in sunny California and will benefit immensely from the free driving range added. I rent my apartment and do not have access to level 2 and rely on only level 1 charging at home. Aptera fits my currents needs perfectly.

  • Richard Palmisano

    Member
    June 6, 2022 at 6:44 am

    Michael the other point here is you can also attach directly additional solar panels (up to 1000w per a post here in the forum) to charge at 1700w. This is more than doubles the 40 miles per day. This can be accomplished fairly easily with about 3 panels at home, on a camping excursion, etc.

  • Efrain Goody

    Member
    June 6, 2022 at 8:22 am

    I really don’t want grab any ears here, but I’ve got to jump in. I’m also a limited funds guy who can’t afford to have toy cars, but I don’t think that Aptera is trying to be a toy. The vehicle is quite competitively priced, and boasts many practical features.

    Primarily, it is an exceedingly efficient vehicle. This is perfect for commuters or people who drive a lot for their job. I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I am currently spending about a third of my income on gasoline, and the aptera would significantly reduce that, as I can charge at home and at work for very little.

    I like to be prepared for whatever may come up. I carry a full camping pack in my trunk, a portable solar array and battery system for all of my devices, and a few days of food. My main issue is that once my car runs out of gasoline, I am a sitting duck. The solar roof on the aptera will not only provide some savings on my commute, but will also give me peace of mind that I will never be stranded with no fuel.

    As Cameron has alluded to, because of the extreme efficiency, the battery pack doesn’t need to be as large. Because of this, the charge time as a percent is significantly reduced. While in pure watts, the charging may be significantly slower than other EVs, in terms of miles added per hour, the aptera has an equivalent charging speed.

    Of course, if you’ve got a family, the two seats is kind of a drawback, and it’s probably not great for hauling or towing, as it’s low weight is one of the primary factors in it’s efficiency. If your looking for a work truck or a family vehicle, it’s probably not right for you.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      June 6, 2022 at 11:23 am

      Given how rarely I see people hauling rocks or soil in modern trucks it is actually not unreasonable to look at the Aptera as a light duty truck. The cargo area (especially with the hatch open) could haul furniture around just fine; you would be amazed what can be moved on or inside a small hatchback car with some ingenuity and Aptera isn’t much different (apart from harder to make use of the roof). This video breaks down the utility nicely and is probably the only time you will see someone put a bail of hay in the back of a model 3 😅

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmhP3VyfD50

  • Thomas Bushaw

    Member
    June 6, 2022 at 1:01 pm

    MotorMatchup did an interesting “thought experiment” in their recent video (see the chapter at the end of the video); a deep dive analysis of the Aptera’s battery and efficiency. He did a calculation that show’s that due to the Aptera’s efficiency, the 700 watts that the solar panels can produce is enough to move the Aptera along at 18 mph. He rightly points out that it is not realistic to conclude from this that in bright sun the Aptera could travel at 18 mph with the batteries drained. For example the accessory electronics need some power (maybe 250 W) to operate. Regardless, this suggests that the solar panels on the Aptera are hardly a “relatively useless feature.”

  • Benjamin Dreidel

    Member
    June 6, 2022 at 1:58 pm

    40 miles a day on solar panels isn’t that big a deal. It adds minimal cost or weight – an additional $900 at most and an insignificant amount of weight. The Aptera is very justifiable without solar panels at all, to those of us who value efficiency.

    The big deal of the car is the 10 miles/kwh efficiency. You can’t get that in a conventional four wheeler. Hyundai Ioniq EV / Tesla Model 3 can get about 4 miles / kwh by the EPA and they are the most efficient available. You would be hard pressed to double that for a full automobile – Mercedes has a Vision EQXX concept car that they got up to 7 miles/kwh but it would never get that high in a production version.

  • DC Forbes

    Member
    June 6, 2022 at 2:02 pm

    Michael, interesting to read your analysis of 40 miles a day, “…It’s nothing really”. I learned how to do money math later in life, at 35 years old, so this is how I look at 40 free miles per day:

    Gas (as of 6/4/2022) (or should I say diesel, ‘cuz my current car’s a VW TDi) is $5.75 per gallon locally.

    I commute 100 miles each day (50 mi each way). Car gets ≈37 mpg. So ignoring the other 60 miles which I will have to plug-in charge for, the free 40 miles is $6.22 value per day, 5 days a week, so $31.10 per week for $1617.20 per year. I plan to work another 20 years, so assuming no job changes (and overlooking vacation and sick days), investing in low-cost indexed Vanguard mutual funds ≈10% gives me a return of $115,041.37 !! (http://www.ebrteachersfcu.org/calc/fv_multi.html). To me, that’s not nothing. As a matter of fact, in my situation the car actually pays for itself in ≈9 years (Yes, my TDI also paid for itself in 8 years, it’s a 2004 and still going strong, had it for 14 years now).

    I’m only getting the 250 mi version with full panels, and slow charging overnight works well for me (no chargers at work).

    That TDI has cost me A LOT in maintenance over the years, keeping it spinning like a top, I envision the Aptera will be a bit better cost-wise, but I am very interested in tracking and reporting on that. I plan to be a high-mileage, long-term (unofficial) test pilot 🙂

    Doing the math ALSO makes justifying it to the wife a whole lot easier 😉

    Let me know if you need any “calculating” for your unique situation.

    “…weight into a more conventional four wheeler?” Please, no! A three-wheeler gives me carpool lane privileges up here, YEAH Baby! YEAH!

    Thanx for your take on it as well, I’m bummed that it might not be a good fit for you, I think this will work perfect for me. I’m REALLY looking forward to getting my hands <s>one</s> mine!

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      June 7, 2022 at 7:51 am

      The comparison isn’t to diesel it’s to your electricity price. I pay 25 cents/KWh so for me it will cost 2.5 cents per mile, for the rest of the country where electricity costs half or less of what it does in Massachusetts the cost per mile will be closer to a penny per mile. The 40 miles per day is in San Diego, California has time of day electricity pricing which is much lower than the rate I pay so lets assume a penny a mile there, at best it’s a lousy 40 cents a day, you’ll be able to buy a candy bar with your weeks savings. For me the problem is that there is no way I’ll get more than 5 miles a day, best case scenario in Mass is 20 miles per day but that assumes no trees. We have trees. The mighty oak that shades my driveway cuts out so much sunlight that my solar lights will only work for a couple of hours in the summer and not at all in the winter, my tomatoes don’t mature until September which gives you an idea of how much sun my yard receives. I do hope to get some solar power on my Saturday road trips, assuming the the solar cells work all the time not just when the car is stationary, highways aren’t shaded. But for those of us in Northern States the value of the solar cells is minimal. For people who live in California or the South they will at least be able to get a measurable amount of range and for people who live in the South and don’t have access to home charging it might be life changing because if they mostly use the car for commuting they’ll have a form of home charging.

      • Bart Cunningham

        Member
        June 8, 2022 at 2:34 am

        If I was in your shoes I think I would find it worthwhile to remove a tree or two from my driveway! I live in NE Ohio and while not as sunny as southern California I will still receive an adequate amount of sun to supply most of my driving.

        • Ray Holan

          Moderator
          June 8, 2022 at 7:02 am

          Hi, Bart. I’m in Rocky River, a Cleveland Ohio suburb. I have an 18 panel Solar system on the roof of our 1,800 sq. ft. ranch home. Lucky for me our house faces almost due South so our solar exposure is decent. While Ohio is not California, Arizona, or New Mexico, I am offsetting about 60%+ of our electricity usage with our panels. It will be interesting to see how many free miles I get for the Aptera from the vehicle’s built-in solar cells.

        • Joshua Rosen

          Member
          June 8, 2022 at 7:46 am

          No way would I cut down a 100 foot oak tree, it might be as old as my house (200 years). It’s a beautiful tree. Why would anyone want to do something like that to get 20 cents a day (in summer, nothing in winter) worth of electricity. If you are concerned about CO2 in the atmosphere then it makes even less sense, that tree sequesters a lot of CO2 as do the hundreds of other trees on my lot.

          • Alain Chuzel

            Member
            June 8, 2022 at 1:23 pm

            👍

            • Ray Holan

              Moderator
              June 8, 2022 at 1:48 pm

              I may not be the Lorax (Dr. Seuss Tree defender), but I just can’t bring myself to chop down the large oak tree in my front yard that shades most of my panels until about 11:30 AM. I too, thought about the consequences of removing a beautiful, carbon dioxide sequester. Just couldn’t do it.

          • Uwe Kall

            Member
            June 8, 2022 at 2:10 pm

            Rightly so! That tree might even reduce the electricity bill for your home’s AC if it is in the right place! Maybe in such a case it’s better to offer to switch your parking lot with a neighbor who has no decent shadowy spot for his vehicle?

            😓😀

            • Ray Holan

              Moderator
              June 10, 2022 at 5:44 am

              LOL. I see I was being a somewhat typical American — expecting the environment to bend to my will. Never thought of just moving the moveable Aptera to a sunny spot!

  • Konijnerd the Great

    Member
    June 7, 2022 at 7:27 am

    don’t forget that 40 miles is the most you’re gonna get in ideal circumstances. In a lot countries, i bet the max is ~25 miles per day, and if you park in a place with shade or have cloudy days, you can probably count on max 5 miles.

    But as others have said, it’s free range, every day again. Aerodynamics are not sacrificed for this feature.

    I wouldn’t mind that my petrol car gets free drops of diesel daily…

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