Charger options

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Charger options

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Charger options

  • Charger options

     Joshua Rosen updated 4 weeks, 1 day ago 22 Members · 47 Posts
  • larry kaiser

    Member
    March 9, 2022 at 9:24 am

    As I plan my Aptera road trips I have noticed that there are a number of level 3 chargers that take a J1772 combo adapter. We don’t know what kind of charge port will be on the Aptera but I cannot find a J1772 combo adapter for sale at all. Some of these adapters are $300 to $400 so a person would want to get the right one. Any ideas?

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    March 9, 2022 at 9:30 am

    The Aptera is going to use J1772 for Level 2 charging and CCS1 for DC Fast charging. At home you’ll want to install a J1772 EVSE. I have a ClipperCreek HCS 40 which utilizes a 240V/40A line to deliver 32A (7.2KW) J1772 charging. The Aptera will have a 6.6KW charger so an EVSE of this size would be perfect.

    There are a lot of good J1772 EVSEs on the market. I can recommend the ClipperCreek, it’s built like a tank and it’s built in America.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      March 9, 2022 at 10:16 am

      Has CCS been confirmed by Aptera staff? They have definitely dropped lots of hints of a tesla plug.

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 1:53 pm

        @Curtis Cibinel Yes, Aptera has said REPEATEDLY that their vehicle with have CCS charging. The three Alpha prototypes were built with a number of scavenged Tesla part…

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      March 9, 2022 at 10:48 am

      Tesla plug has NOT been confirmed at this time.

      Most likely Aptera will use J1772/CCS. You most likely won’t need an adapter for J1772. CCS is J1772 Combo (plus 2 high voltage pins.) You most likely won’t need an adapter for CCS.

      If you want to buy a Teslatap to allow non-teslas on J1772 plugs to use tesla destination chargers, that’s not a bad idea. I bought one for my Kia EV and haven’t used it in 6 months yet despite many road trips. I also got a 40 foot extension cord (J1772) because I thought I’d need to get around iced chargers. Again, never used it yet. Save your money and buy stuff when you’re ready for it.

      Keep an eye out in case Tesla opens their supercharger network – If they do, try to get a Tesla CCS adapter as soon as possible to allow non-tesla vehicles to charge at the tesla network.

      (Currently only an adapter to go the other way is available).

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 1:56 pm

        @Peter Jorgensen That’s sound advice, Peter! CCS vehicles charging at Tesla Superchargers currently do not need – and cannot use – adaptors: “Open” Superchargers are installing CCS charging cables in place of some of the Tesla cables.

    • V Pilot

      Member
      March 9, 2022 at 12:16 pm

      If the charger is onboard why would you need an EVSE? Surely a proper outlet and charge cord should suffice for home charging, no?

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 12:29 pm

        Here is a good teardown. In practice especially with good software control in the vehicle itself a EVSE is not really that different than a NEMA14-50. Even with the recent discovery we will get 6.6KW (see the level 2 charging thread) the Aptera is the bottleneck making a specialized EVSE for more amps pointless. A NEMA14-30 is close at 5.7KW (24 Amps sustained x 240 V) and will use less space in the breaker panel.

        From Tesla’s charge manual: “The NEMA 14-50 adapter will allow a Tesla to draw up to 32 amps (7.6 kW at. 240 volts).”

        EVSE teardown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxB7zA-e4Y

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 12:41 pm

        EVSEs are a safety measure, think of them as a smart circuit breaker. They tell the on board charger how much current they are allowed to draw. There is a negotiation that happens between the EVSE and the car, when completed the EVSE switches on the power to the car’s charger.

        A NEMA 14-50 isn’t a substitute for an EVSE, they are just an outlet that you can plug an EVSE in to.

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 2:00 pm

        @V Pilot An EV “charge cord” IS an EVSE: Some are Level 1 (110 V) and some are Level 2 (220 V) and some use adaptors to do both. Cable EVSEs are, most commonly, 16A – but there are some rated for 32A. Wall-mounted EVSEs tend to start at 30A and go up to 80A – the higher amperage units requiring hard-wired installation. Wall-mounted EVSEs that plug into a NEMA 14-50 top-out at 48A.

    • Len Nowak

      Moderator
      March 9, 2022 at 12:34 pm

      Hi Joshua

      Did AMC confirm they have a 6.6 KW charger on board to you? Resoan I ask… I asked them a couple years ago and they said 3 to 6.6Kw was anticipated.

      I too have a Level II Clipper Creek Amazing E charger 240 V 32 amp on 40 amp breaker (hard wired in my garage) with J1772 plug, but never used 🤞 I like that CC is also UL AND CE approved!

      • Bob Kirchner

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 1:11 pm

        6.6 kW would be wonderful. 60 miles of range per hour on level ll !

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 2:07 pm

        @Leonard Nowak If Aptera DID say they were installing 6.6 kW AC charging I can’t find it anywhere on any of the forum:. What I have found is repeated mention of 3.3 kW charging, as we were told in more than one webinar. I hope the issue is still TBD and that they can find a small, efficient 6.6 kW unit that won’t generate so much heat.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 2:34 pm

        It’s on another thread today, Larry who started this thread contacted Aptera and they confirmed that it would be a 6.6KW charger.

        • larry kaiser

          Member
          March 9, 2022 at 5:38 pm

          just got a message from kayleigh saying that they are TESTING both 3.3 and 6.6KW chargers and we will get the straight scoop when we get it and not before! Sorry I got peoples hopes up but 6.6 is still possible.

          • Joshua Rosen

            Member
            March 10, 2022 at 6:02 am

            I could imagine that they could put a 3.3 into the 250 mile variant and 6.6 in the others. You have to be able to charge a car overnight, i.e. in 8 hours, 10 max. With a 25KWh battery a 3.3KW charger would be fine, it can add 20KWh in a shade under 7 hours. With larger batteries it doesn’t work. Adding 50KWh to the 60KWh battery would take almost 17 hours, that’s completely unacceptable. I just experienced this. When I came back from Connecticut Saturday I failed to plug my charger cord all the way in. My Tesla was charging at 15A instead of 48A, there had been a message about the battery being cold so I didn’t realize that the plug was badly seated, I assumed that it would heat up the battery and then it would go to normal charging speeds. I set the car to charge to 75% from 15%, when I got up in the morning it was still charging. When I went out to go shopping I found that the plug wasn’t seated properly, when I got back I plugged it in correctly and it immediately charged at 48A. I absolutely will not buy this car if they put in a 3.3KW charger, but I’m sure they’ve figured out that 3.3 doesn’t work in the large battery variants. The 100KWh battery ought to have an 11KW charger, i.e. the same size as a Tesla, but they have time before that version is ready so they will be able to get that right also.

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              March 11, 2022 at 3:02 pm

              @larry kaiser @Joshua Rosen I pulled on my Ambassador hat and contacted Aptera’s CMO, Sarah Hardwick who confirmed Larry’s message from Kayleigh: No decision has been made but BOTH the 3.3 and 6.6 kW units are still being tested.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    March 9, 2022 at 1:52 pm

    @larry kaiser

    1. As of this point in time, Aptera does not have a contract with Tesla to allow the use of either the Tesla charging port or the Supercharger network.

    2. Aptera has stated – repeatedly – that the Aptera vehicle will have CCS charging: This means it will have a CCS port.

    3. The Aptera Alpha prototypes were constructed using a number of salvaged Tesla parts.

    4. Tesla’s portable EVSE is capable of charging at 110 V and at 220 V, using interchangeable dongles to plug into various NEMA receptacles.

    5. At present there is no reliable adapter that allows a CCS connector to plug into a Tesla port, just as there is no reliable Tesla connector into a CCS port. We’re told that Tesla is testing one in the Asian and Euro markets but they limit charging to 50 kW, the same as Tesla’s ChaDeMo adapter.

  • Aaron Fields

    Member
    April 28, 2022 at 2:44 pm

    I have 2 teslas and one is in the shop due to a car accident. I’m now driving a Vovlo Polestar as a rental. I have 2 Tesla HPWC installed in my garage, and since the Polestar uses J1772, I bought an adaptor. I use my Tesla wall chargers to charge the Polestar through the adaptor. My concern is that EVs before Tesla didn’t cool their batteries, and this resulted in the battery quickly degrading. If the Aptera uses CCS and they don’t actively cool the battery, it will likely quickly lose range (see Nissan Leaf).

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      April 28, 2022 at 2:49 pm

      The only car still on the market with no battery cooling that I’m aware of is the Leaf and the sibling EV Van the NV200.

      It’s not a Tesla thing, everyone uses liquid cooling now. Including Aptera, Kia, Hyundai, Polestar, Volvo, Geely, Fiat, Chevy, Ford, Lucid, Rivian, Fisker, Atlis, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, etc.

      In Aptera the warm coolant goes to the belly pan instead of a radiator, but it’s definitely active cooled.

      • BRUCE MENGLER

        Member
        April 28, 2022 at 6:59 pm

        “actively cooled” for some loose definition when Aptera is parked & being charged; especially if it is in Phoenix AZ in the middle of August.

        • Harry Parker

          Moderator
          April 29, 2022 at 3:47 pm

          I believe an air conditioning compressor in the cooliing loop qualifies it as “actively cooled” by anybody’s definition.

  • Pistonboy Delux

    Member
    August 24, 2022 at 10:47 pm

    Will we receive a charger with our Aptera?

    I have heard Tesla has discontinued including a charger with their vehicle. Is this true?

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    August 24, 2022 at 10:53 pm

    The mobile connector for tesla is used for charging from level 1 and nema (ie dryer) plugs. They now charge $200 and include more ports. Electrical codes will soon require ground fault interupters for ev charging which basically dictates getting a proper evse anyway. As to what Aptera will include it’s up in the air.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      August 24, 2022 at 11:18 pm

      @Curtis Cibinel In the US we can get both GFCI and non-GFCI breakers – and most 240/220 domestic circuits are dedicated lines from the service panel to a single receptacle – so shouldn’t that solve the problem?

      Tesla offers two different Mobile Connectors: One has a molded-on NEMA 14-50 connector (and is out of stock in the online store) and the other has two interchangeable connectors – a NEMA 5-15 and a NEMA 14-50 (with other connectors available). Both versions are listed at $200 and both are rated at up to 32A.

      The Wall Connector is currently priced at $400 and is rated at up to 48A.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    August 24, 2022 at 11:22 pm

    @Pistonboy Delux Yes, that is true: Tesla no longer includes a Mobile Connector with their vehicles.

    I doubt that Aptera will include a cable (Kia doesn’t, either – at least not in the EV6…) but, as @Curtis Cibinel mentioned, the Tesla Mobile Connector is an exceptional bargain right now – as is their Wall Connector.

  • Paul Carlucci

    Member
    August 25, 2022 at 3:34 am

    Let’s be honest, many of us already have a stack of L1 charge cords at home, some of which have never been pulled out. Early adopter Apteras are far more likely to be going to households that already have an EV or PHEV and therefore don’t need yet another EVSE. If you really need one an L1 or low-end basic L2 is under $200 all day long. Anything more than that is kinda silly for home use with an Aptera. Some folks will want one for commando charging but there’s no reason for Aptera management to assume everybody needs one and then incur the costs.

    • John Voules

      Member
      August 25, 2022 at 5:36 am

      All brand new evs come with a basic 110v charging cable. APTERA can’t assume you already own. From my experience charging cables can also go bad. Also I have the horrible experience of my Zero srf motorcycle refuses to charge on my homes level 2 system. Zero hasn’t been able to figure it out and Charge Point also refuses to take responsibility. So I have to use my 110v cable at home, funny thing though, Charge Point works for me at other charging stations.

    • Mark Salyzyn

      Member
      August 25, 2022 at 6:25 am

      ‘many of us have a stack of L1 charge cords at home’

      We do? less than 1% of the population own an EV. A $26k starting EV? An sEV that solves the problem many condo and rental appt owners have had adopting EVs? I could ask what planet you are on.

      This will be my first production EV, other than the ones I hand built.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    August 25, 2022 at 7:29 am

    Including a mobile EVSE with the car is wasteful. I’ve never removed my mobile Tesla EVSE from the frunk. When I got my first EV, a Volt, in 2016 I used the included EVSE for about a week until my ClipperCreek was installed. Mobile chargers are a pain because you have to put them away when you aren’t using them and then get them out when you want to charge. Having a permanently installed EVSE is vastly more convenient. I also had a problem with my Volt’s portable EVSE, it popped the GCFI on my outdoor outlet, I ended up running a heavy duty outdoor extension cord from my dining room which is not recommended but it did the job for the short time I needed it.

    It would make sense for them to offer a mobile EVSE as an option, first time EV owners might feel more comfortable if the EVSE came with the car. However just having a set of recommended EVSEs with links to the purchase sites would also solve that problem.

    If they end up using the Tesla connector then you’ll have to buy a Tesla EVSE if you don’t already have one. If they end up with CCS1 then there are many good J1772 EVSEs on the market.

    • Riley …

      Member
      August 25, 2022 at 7:55 am

      I own a tesla and use the included cord daily. Mounted it to the wall of my garage and take it with me whenever I take a long trip.

      Hopefully aptera includes a mobile charger and if they don’t Hopefully aptera is compatible with the tesla mobile connector.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        August 25, 2022 at 9:00 am

        If they use a Tesla plug you’re all set, if they use a J1772 then you’ll have to have to buy a new EVSE which will cost you $500-$600. There is no reason to bundle that cost into the car, for those that need to buy an EVSE it’s the same either way, for those that don’t it’s money not wasted. I have a J1772 and a Tesla EVSE on the side of my house, I’m set no matter which they go. An EVSE and the cost to run a 240V line isn’t a lot compared to the price of a new car, it’s the price of an option.

        • Jeff May

          Member
          August 25, 2022 at 10:47 am

          Nowadays you can get an L1 EVSE for <$200 and an L2 EVSE for <$300.

          And if you’ve already got a Tesla charger and Aptera ends up using a J1772 charge port, you could also get a Tesla-to-J1772 adapter for $160.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      August 25, 2022 at 8:52 am

      Aptera is uniquely functional with level 1 charging (about 140 miles per night). I won’t be able to install an evse since I’m in an apartment but my detached garage already has a dedicated 120v circuit. Does anyone make cheaper non-modular level 1 only cables for tesla or is the tesla mobile connector still the best option? Kinda feels like level 2 (without a hardwired evse) is not going to come up often.

  • Gene Chutka

    Member
    August 25, 2022 at 8:59 am

    I just bought my first EV, a Kia EV6, and it didn’t come with a charging cable. I was initially disappointed at this until I educated myself about all the different charging options, plugs, power levels, and smart features. These are not exactly cheap either, it’s not like buying a simple extension cord.

    Everyone’s use case is different so it doesn’t make sense for manufacturers to assume that a portable level 1 EVSE fits the need for every buyer, so why waste the money on something that may never be used. In my case I don’t ever seeing myself charging at level 1, but others may find a need for that however infrequent.

    If you make the jump to level 2 there are even more particulars in terms of plugs and power ratings. So even harder to find the one-size-fits-all EVSE. Most people will be in this space after vehicle purchase.

    Bottom line, buy the EVSE(s) of your choice after purchase.

  • Lawrence Leonard

    Member
    October 30, 2022 at 5:10 am

    Does Tesla make a smart home charger? Can their home chargers be installed outdoors? Has anyone had any actual experience with a home smart charging station? Inquiring minds want to know. Thanks.

    Fair winds and Smooth sailing,

    Lawrence Leonard

  • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

    Member
    October 30, 2022 at 5:21 am

    No info myself on the full charger being outside, I have seen one, near where I live, where the owner has cut a hole through the wall next to their garage door jamb, and runs the charging cable end out to the Tesla he parks in the driveway.

  • BRUCE MENGLER

    Member
    October 30, 2022 at 5:48 am

    I have a Clipper Creek EVSE, but I have it mounted inside my garage that I will use on my Aptera.
    Below is what they have to say about installing it outside.

    https://clippercreek.com/ev-charging-indoor-vs-outdoor-weather-concerns/

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    October 30, 2022 at 7:15 am

    My Tesla Wall Connector is outside, it’s been through three New England winters without a problem.

    • Lawrence Leonard

      Member
      October 30, 2022 at 1:49 pm

      Good to know. I live in Northwestern Massachusetts. Thanks!

  • Dennis Swaney

    Member
    October 30, 2022 at 7:57 am

    Lawrence, this should help answer some of your questions:

    https://www.tesla.com/support/installation-manuals-wall-connector#install

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    November 1, 2022 at 7:29 pm

    @Lawrence Leonard Right now the Tesla Wall Connector and the Tesla Mobile Connector are two of the highest-quality and lowest-priced units of their kind. Direct from Tesla, the former is $400 USD and the latter $200 USD.

  • Michael Marsden

    Member
    November 2, 2022 at 8:26 am

    Interestingly the most recent Tesla home charger is designed to charge via J1772 (Tesla vehicles need to use an adaptor). The original (with the Tesla connector) is still available, so I think this is intended for families with multiple EVs.

    https://shop.tesla.com/product/j1772-wall-connector

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      November 2, 2022 at 9:20 am

      The J1772 EVSE isn’t aimed at Tesla owners, they would buy the Tesla plug version. Tesla EVSEs are smart, they can talk to each other and do load balancing. If you are a hotel, for example, that want’s to install a bank of EVSEs for your patrons then a bunch of Tesla EVSEs would be the cheapest way to do that. With load balancing you can reduce the amount of electricity you have to supply to the bank of EVSEs since not all will be in use at the same time. In the past hotels would install a bunch of Tesla EVSEs for Tesla drivers and a couple of ClipperCreeks for the other EVs. The ClipperCreeks can’t share power with the Tesla EVSEs so they would require a separate circuit. By offering a Tesla J1772 EVSE along side the standard Tesla EVSE a hotel can put all of them on the same circuit. They can also bill for the electricity if they want to because Tesla has added that function. For home users you would just buy a Tesla with Tesla plug if you have a Tesla (and maybe Aptera if they can work that out) or a J1772 if you have something else. I have both at my house. The J1772 is left over from when I had a Volt, the Tesla is used to charge my Tesla. They are on separate circuits because they are both dumb EVSEs. In the future people who are installing multiple EVSEs at home because they have multiple cars would want to install load sharing EVSEs to minimize the complexity of the circuitry.

Viewing 1 - 17 of 17 replies

or to reply.

Original Post
0 of 0 posts June 2018
Now