J1772 combo chargers

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions J1772 combo chargers

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions J1772 combo chargers

  • J1772 combo chargers

  • larry kaiser

    Member
    March 9, 2022 at 9:24 am

    As I plan my Aptera road trips I have noticed that there are a number of level 3 chargers that take a J1772 combo adapter. We don’t know what kind of charge port will be on the Aptera but I cannot find a J1772 combo adapter for sale at all. Some of these adapters are $300 to $400 so a person would want to get the right one. Any ideas?

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    March 9, 2022 at 9:30 am

    The Aptera is going to use J1772 for Level 2 charging and CCS1 for DC Fast charging. At home you’ll want to install a J1772 EVSE. I have a ClipperCreek HCS 40 which utilizes a 240V/40A line to deliver 32A (7.2KW) J1772 charging. The Aptera will have a 6.6KW charger so an EVSE of this size would be perfect.

    There are a lot of good J1772 EVSEs on the market. I can recommend the ClipperCreek, it’s built like a tank and it’s built in America.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      March 9, 2022 at 10:16 am

      Has CCS been confirmed by Aptera staff? They have definitely dropped lots of hints of a tesla plug.

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 1:53 pm

        @Curtis Cibinel Yes, Aptera has said REPEATEDLY that their vehicle with have CCS charging. The three Alpha prototypes were built with a number of scavenged Tesla part…

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      March 9, 2022 at 10:48 am

      Tesla plug has NOT been confirmed at this time.

      Most likely Aptera will use J1772/CCS. You most likely won’t need an adapter for J1772. CCS is J1772 Combo (plus 2 high voltage pins.) You most likely won’t need an adapter for CCS.

      If you want to buy a Teslatap to allow non-teslas on J1772 plugs to use tesla destination chargers, that’s not a bad idea. I bought one for my Kia EV and haven’t used it in 6 months yet despite many road trips. I also got a 40 foot extension cord (J1772) because I thought I’d need to get around iced chargers. Again, never used it yet. Save your money and buy stuff when you’re ready for it.

      Keep an eye out in case Tesla opens their supercharger network – If they do, try to get a Tesla CCS adapter as soon as possible to allow non-tesla vehicles to charge at the tesla network.

      (Currently only an adapter to go the other way is available).

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 1:56 pm

        @Peter Jorgensen That’s sound advice, Peter! CCS vehicles charging at Tesla Superchargers currently do not need – and cannot use – adaptors: “Open” Superchargers are installing CCS charging cables in place of some of the Tesla cables.

    • V Pilot

      Member
      March 9, 2022 at 12:16 pm

      If the charger is onboard why would you need an EVSE? Surely a proper outlet and charge cord should suffice for home charging, no?

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 12:29 pm

        Here is a good teardown. In practice especially with good software control in the vehicle itself a EVSE is not really that different than a NEMA14-50. Even with the recent discovery we will get 6.6KW (see the level 2 charging thread) the Aptera is the bottleneck making a specialized EVSE for more amps pointless. A NEMA14-30 is close at 5.7KW (24 Amps sustained x 240 V) and will use less space in the breaker panel.

        From Tesla’s charge manual: “The NEMA 14-50 adapter will allow a Tesla to draw up to 32 amps (7.6 kW at. 240 volts).”

        EVSE teardown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMxB7zA-e4Y

        • kerbe2705

          Member
          March 9, 2022 at 2:02 pm

          @Curtis Cibinel please link to the 6.6 kW statement – I can’t find anything that says Aptera plans to offer more than 3.3 kW AC carging – including a post from you stating that Kayleigh posted that information! Thanks!

          • Curtis Cibinel

            Member
            March 9, 2022 at 2:07 pm

            See the post by “larry kaiser” here. It was a statement from Aptera in response to an email rather than a post by Kayleigh.

            https://aptera.us/community/discussion/aptera-doesnt-have-level-2-charging/#post-21636

            Aptera doesn't have level 2 charging

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              March 9, 2022 at 3:35 pm

              @Curtis Cibinel Thanks! I thought I’d read that entire thread but, somehow, missed the very last message! Who is this “Nicole” he mentioned? She’s not included in the staff listed on the website… I’d be more comfortable hearing it from someone we “know”…

            • larry kaiser

              Member
              March 9, 2022 at 5:19 pm

              I think the messages from Nicole are legit. She has answered several other questions for me. If you PM me with your email address, I will forward her messages to you or any other forum member. I don’t think that Aptera considered the number of people who intend to charge at level 2 chargers and how difficult it would be to do long road trips through flyover country with only 3.3KW charging. I think the folks who are bringing us our Apteras are great. I do think they need to be reminded that there are places where it gets below 0F and where EV chargers are many miles apart.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 12:41 pm

        EVSEs are a safety measure, think of them as a smart circuit breaker. They tell the on board charger how much current they are allowed to draw. There is a negotiation that happens between the EVSE and the car, when completed the EVSE switches on the power to the car’s charger.

        A NEMA 14-50 isn’t a substitute for an EVSE, they are just an outlet that you can plug an EVSE in to.

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 2:00 pm

        @V Pilot An EV “charge cord” IS an EVSE: Some are Level 1 (110 V) and some are Level 2 (220 V) and some use adaptors to do both. Cable EVSEs are, most commonly, 16A – but there are some rated for 32A. Wall-mounted EVSEs tend to start at 30A and go up to 80A – the higher amperage units requiring hard-wired installation. Wall-mounted EVSEs that plug into a NEMA 14-50 top-out at 48A.

    • Len Nowak

      Moderator
      March 9, 2022 at 12:34 pm

      Hi Joshua

      Did AMC confirm they have a 6.6 KW charger on board to you? Resoan I ask… I asked them a couple years ago and they said 3 to 6.6Kw was anticipated.

      I too have a Level II Clipper Creek Amazing E charger 240 V 32 amp on 40 amp breaker (hard wired in my garage) with J1772 plug, but never used 🤞 I like that CC is also UL AND CE approved!

      • Bob Kirchner

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 1:11 pm

        6.6 kW would be wonderful. 60 miles of range per hour on level ll !

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 2:07 pm

        @Leonard Nowak If Aptera DID say they were installing 6.6 kW AC charging I can’t find it anywhere on any of the forum:. What I have found is repeated mention of 3.3 kW charging, as we were told in more than one webinar. I hope the issue is still TBD and that they can find a small, efficient 6.6 kW unit that won’t generate so much heat.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 2:34 pm

        It’s on another thread today, Larry who started this thread contacted Aptera and they confirmed that it would be a 6.6KW charger.

        • larry kaiser

          Member
          March 9, 2022 at 5:38 pm

          just got a message from kayleigh saying that they are TESTING both 3.3 and 6.6KW chargers and we will get the straight scoop when we get it and not before! Sorry I got peoples hopes up but 6.6 is still possible.

          • Joshua Rosen

            Member
            March 10, 2022 at 6:02 am

            I could imagine that they could put a 3.3 into the 250 mile variant and 6.6 in the others. You have to be able to charge a car overnight, i.e. in 8 hours, 10 max. With a 25KWh battery a 3.3KW charger would be fine, it can add 20KWh in a shade under 7 hours. With larger batteries it doesn’t work. Adding 50KWh to the 60KWh battery would take almost 17 hours, that’s completely unacceptable. I just experienced this. When I came back from Connecticut Saturday I failed to plug my charger cord all the way in. My Tesla was charging at 15A instead of 48A, there had been a message about the battery being cold so I didn’t realize that the plug was badly seated, I assumed that it would heat up the battery and then it would go to normal charging speeds. I set the car to charge to 75% from 15%, when I got up in the morning it was still charging. When I went out to go shopping I found that the plug wasn’t seated properly, when I got back I plugged it in correctly and it immediately charged at 48A. I absolutely will not buy this car if they put in a 3.3KW charger, but I’m sure they’ve figured out that 3.3 doesn’t work in the large battery variants. The 100KWh battery ought to have an 11KW charger, i.e. the same size as a Tesla, but they have time before that version is ready so they will be able to get that right also.

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              March 11, 2022 at 3:02 pm

              @larry kaiser @Joshua Rosen I pulled on my Ambassador hat and contacted Aptera’s CMO, Sarah Hardwick who confirmed Larry’s message from Kayleigh: No decision has been made but BOTH the 3.3 and 6.6 kW units are still being tested.

            • John Malcom

              Member
              March 11, 2022 at 5:32 pm

              DR. Rosen, it is not a car.. It is either a autocycle or a motor cycle depending on the state where you live.

              I have confidence that the engineering team will match charging capacity in the Aptera in a manner that optimizes the whole vehicle architecture for efficiency. That is the purpose for engineering and testing. What ever that turns out to be I am happy to live with It as, at the system level, there is nothing that can compare with an Aptera for efficient performance with any of the battery options. My driving factor is system level performance.

              If 3.3 charging is unacceptable and you don’t buy an Aptera that is fine. Everyone on the forum will use there own criteria and make their own assessment. The results of those assessments will be right for each one of them as yours will be for you.

            • Joshua Rosen

              Member
              March 11, 2022 at 7:44 pm

              John, please stop calling me Dr Rosen. Just call me Josh. Thanks.

            • John Malcom

              Member
              March 11, 2022 at 8:55 pm

              You earned the title and deserve the recognition. But will do as you wish

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              March 11, 2022 at 10:01 pm

              Charging speed has nothing to do with the efficiency of the vehicle: Efficiency is about how the vehicle uses the power stored in it.

              The “size” of the onboard AC charger – and the governing of the DC charging speed to 50 kW – is entirely about the HEAT generated by the charging process and the fact that Aptera can’t shed heat well when it’s not moving.

              Next rant:

              The conceptual fallacy of charging at “miles per hour” is relative as range isn’t an absolute: It varies with the weather, the grade of the road, the speed of travel, etc. What IS accurate is state-of-charge. The range provided by a full charge can vary up to 50% (although, usually, it’s less than 25%).

              Yes, if you don’t need to drive more than a few miles per day you can partially charge your EV with at Level 1 and a 3.3 kW charger – but it will take a long time to do so. If however, you’re out and you find that you don’t have enough power to reach home, stopping for several hours just to add enough power to take you 20 miles would be an untennable situation.

              And, yes, I’m gonna use my Clarity as an example as it can’t use DC charging. The PHEV has a 17 kWh (13 kWh useable) and, on a full charge, will travel 45 miles. It has an onboard 6.6 kW AC charger: If I plug it into a 110V, 15A receptacle (L1) it will take 12 hours to add 45 miles of range; If I plug it into a 220V, 32A EVSE (L2) it will add 45 miles of range in 2.5 hours. From what I gather, had the Clarity a 3.3 kW OBC, the L2 time would double while the L1 time would stay the same – as a 110V 15A receptacle can deliver only 1.725 kW.

            • Curtis Cibinel

              Member
              March 11, 2022 at 8:16 pm

              Everyone has unique needs. Level 1 is overkill 99% of the time for me. If driving at 100 km/h that is almost 5 hours of driving per day plugged in. The 3.3 is over 2x that amount. 8 ski hills and about 200 hikes are within 2 hours (4 hour round trip of a 40 kw with awd, heat and excessive margin of safety) For the odd trip a 1-2 times a year dc/ dennies exists. If level 2 (even 3.3) is wide spread I can’t imagine many scenarios I’d want to torture myself with more driving per day.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    March 9, 2022 at 1:52 pm

    @larry kaiser

    1. As of this point in time, Aptera does not have a contract with Tesla to allow the use of either the Tesla charging port or the Supercharger network.

    2. Aptera has stated – repeatedly – that the Aptera vehicle will have CCS charging: This means it will have a CCS port.

    3. The Aptera Alpha prototypes were constructed using a number of salvaged Tesla parts.

    4. Tesla’s portable EVSE is capable of charging at 110 V and at 220 V, using interchangeable dongles to plug into various NEMA receptacles.

    5. At present there is no reliable adapter that allows a CCS connector to plug into a Tesla port, just as there is no reliable Tesla connector into a CCS port. We’re told that Tesla is testing one in the Asian and Euro markets but they limit charging to 50 kW, the same as Tesla’s ChaDeMo adapter.

  • Aaron Fields

    Member
    April 28, 2022 at 2:44 pm

    I have 2 teslas and one is in the shop due to a car accident. I’m now driving a Vovlo Polestar as a rental. I have 2 Tesla HPWC installed in my garage, and since the Polestar uses J1772, I bought an adaptor. I use my Tesla wall chargers to charge the Polestar through the adaptor. My concern is that EVs before Tesla didn’t cool their batteries, and this resulted in the battery quickly degrading. If the Aptera uses CCS and they don’t actively cool the battery, it will likely quickly lose range (see Nissan Leaf).

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      April 28, 2022 at 2:49 pm

      The only car still on the market with no battery cooling that I’m aware of is the Leaf and the sibling EV Van the NV200.

      It’s not a Tesla thing, everyone uses liquid cooling now. Including Aptera, Kia, Hyundai, Polestar, Volvo, Geely, Fiat, Chevy, Ford, Lucid, Rivian, Fisker, Atlis, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, etc.

      In Aptera the warm coolant goes to the belly pan instead of a radiator, but it’s definitely active cooled.

      • BRUCE MENGLER

        Member
        April 28, 2022 at 6:59 pm

        “actively cooled” for some loose definition when Aptera is parked & being charged; especially if it is in Phoenix AZ in the middle of August.

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