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Jason C Hill Speaks…
Jason Hill, Aptera Chief of Design, did a webinar on October 7th for transportation design students at the Cleveland Institute of Art. This was an event that I arranged with the help of Will Reynolds, Jason, and Doug Paige, professor of industrial design at the Cleveland Institute of Art. CIA has 300+ solar panels cranking away on the roof of its main building and sustainability is a big part of their approach to design education. The event was intended to serve as PR for Aptera, but also to afford the students an opportunity to hear from a professional in the field of vehicle design and learn how he worked through the myriad design choices that have been part of the development of the Aptera.
I gathered a few pertinent quotes from Jason’s presentation that I thought might be of interest to us on the forum. I transcribed them from the recording of the presentation.
Comments on Aptera Vehicle Features
There will not be a logo on nose of vehicle. The backlit logo will be retained on both B pillars. Jason: “Similar to the Tesla cybertruck, the Aptera vehicle IS the logo.”
There will be a center headlight cluster. Jason: “Central headlight is a legal requirement (for motorcycles and autocycles); all elements need to be around the centerline of the vehicle; our headlight efficiency is north of 50% while most auto headlights are 25-35%…(on avoiding placement of headlights on the angled surfaces on the far left and right of the Aptera body) pushing through angled surfaces, performance goes way down.”
Yes, Aptera will have a steering wheel “yoke”, not a full steering wheel. This is to allow viewing of the side mirror cameras now placed directly in front of the driver.
In regards to the mid-window bar in each side window: “You can’t do a full drop window AND maintain the proper aerodynamic shape. All the cool supercars have them going back to the Lamborghini Countach.”
“The production design will be completed by middle of November 2022 and the plan is to head right to the production tooling from that design.”
In response to a question about future vehicles from Aptera: “We’re on track to launch this vehicle next year (i.e. 2023) Any distraction against that becomes detrimental to the mission. Once we prove that it’s in the marketplace, then you can look at the evolution of the product, the evolution of the brand, and the evolution of the company which includes other products.”
Comments on Aptera History
On the demise of the original vision at the hands of the auto execs brought into the company in the 2006 time period: “They didn’t understand what is was supposed to be, so they tried to make it into something it wasn’t. It’s not supposed to be a car. It’s a different vehicle with different characteristics.”
Referring to Aptera restart by Steve Fambro and Chris Anthony in 2018: “The Aptera story has a Hollywood movie arc to it — the heroes come back after almost being defeated.”
“Aptera is choosing a spot in the vehicle market with a set of regulations we can get into using an achievable amount of capital.”
“Brand identity demands that it (i.e. Aptera) be unique in as many aspects as possible. We know we need to be unique first before we capitalize on a bigger market.”
On not trying to have Aptera compete head-to-head with 4 wheel vehicles: “You can’t compete with a 4 wheel vehicle — Ones a fruit and ones a mineral, they’re just completely different.”
Other Aptera Statements of Interest
“My vision was always to have the simplest interior possible.”
One of the students raised the question of pushback received re: central screen — don’t people prefer tactile controls? Jason’s response: “There’s always pushback on pretty much everything”.
On what it’s like to drive an Aptera: “You have a unique relationship with vehicle. I never used that term until I owned a Tesla model 3.”
Is this a recreational vehicle or a daily driver? Jason: “I believe the pleasure that is going to be derived from ownership and experience of Aptera is much more aligned to fun and freedom. When I think of these, I think of ATV’s I think of off-road or zippy things around town.”
3 wheels? Jason: “It starts with efficiency (i.e. reduced rolling resistance, less weight, and tapered body for aerodynamics) but also for capital vs. regulations that must be met to enter a market.”
Is it a motorcycle or autocycle? (Note: some states categorize Aptera as motorcycle, others as autocycle) Jason: “Our mission was to have the most efficient vehicle in as many metrics as possible.”
“We are starting with supplemental solar, but the goal is to get to almost primary.”
Comments on Design in General and Philosophical Musings
“Design at its core is problem solving.”
“Design needs to be ahead of the curve. You’ve got to be way out front with optimism. Design for optimistic outcome.”
What should designers do? Jason: “Satisfy the desire and take away the fear in a novel way. Effect real change in a positive way. That’s the mission of designers.”
“I live on coffee and learning.”
“Science fiction magically becomes fact.”
“We change our environment. All other species adapt to the environment. However, we’re being more efficient through technology and through knowledge.”
- 32 Replies
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Jason C Hill Speaks…
updated 4 months, 1 week ago 20 Members · 32 Replies -
Good stuff…
Thanks for doing/sharing!
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Thanks, Len. Jason was very gracious and, of course, knowledgeable as all get out. He was very warm and encouraging to the students which was gratifying to witness.
It was interesting to hear more about his pre-Aptera design experiences with projects like the Swatch car (predecessor to the Smart car) and the exterior design of the Porsche Carrera GT.
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Ray excellent info, thank you for this. Any link to the video available, by any chance?
(Link to this posted to Reddit, ApteraMotors sub.)
- This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by
OZ (It's OZ, Just OZ).
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Hi, Oz. It was a Zoom meeting that I recorded in my personal Zoom account. The MP4 is about 167 MB. Footage is raw and unedited. It’s good in the main, but marred by garbled audio a couple of times due to issues at Jason’s end. He was on Aptera wifi. Go figure;)
- This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by
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Kinda bummed about the front logo going away. I really liked it when I saw the Gamma. However I’m guessing that with a center headlight, it becomes pretty invisible to both oncoming traffic and in rear view mirrors.
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Yeah but another smooth finish an for lead manufacture….less wiring and light for the build
( Wasn’t there a concern with allowing a green light in the front of this classified vehicle ?)
I suppose a decal, even reflective could be an option
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>One of the students raised the question of pushback received re: central screen — don’t people prefer tactile controls? Jason’s response: “There’s always pushback on pretty much everything”.One of the students raised the question of pushback received re: central screen — don’t people prefer tactile controls? Jason’s response: “There’s always pushback on pretty much everything”.
Phew… That’s – well – generic.
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Yeah, I had a similar reaction. That’s a non-answer. Or as they teach you in dealing with the media training – don’t answer the question they ask. Give them an answer that provides what you want people to hear.
I suspect there has been a lot of heat on this one. And the design students know that research shows that people prefer tactile controls, which are more efficient and effective for users than having to locate and search through multiple levels of screens
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But he is correct. There is always pushback from every single design decision. Just a few inches above in this discussion is someone lamenting the fact that the front GLO logo is no more. And yet there were some people who were vehemently hating the front GLO logo. Now those people are happy but the front GLO logo lovers aren’t.
So what do you do? I really think in the tactile control decision it’s coming from cost.
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Hi, Lander. Paul’s response nicely summarizes my take on Jason’s response. The quote from Jason I included in the original post on this thread was followed by his expanding on the notion that you can’t please everyone and (my read of his position) it’s the designer’s job to challenge existing notions — the result being that every design decision displeases somebody. He wasn’t taking a “if they can’t take a joke, screw ’em” attitude. I think he was saying realistically, there will always be lovers and haters on any specific design decision.
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Ray, Thanks for working t make this happen and especially going the extra mile to make it available on the forum. Useful information here. A lot to unpack here. My thoughts.
Confirms headlight cluster we saw on the gamma. That will be on the delta and production.
Confirms yoke on delta and production. Most of us knew and accepted that. The hold out for something else will need to go to third party after delivery
Confirmed mid bar window design as a necessity. Again, if someone wants something different, third-party market
Hope the statement on production design (Delta prototype) is accurate and that tooling can proceed from the CAD files is accurate as that means Aptera is well on the way to production line setup and testing, and other testing requiring a delta level vehicle
Glad to see his statement regarding changes affecting the schedule moving forward “Any distraction against that becomes detrimental to the mission” should close out any desired/expected wants for changes in the production vehicle and assure all that we are in the final stages prior to production
“Once we prove that it’s in the marketplace, then you can look at the evolution of the product,” certainly the right strategy at this point
The statement about the first Aptera company at the hands of the auto execs “They didn’t understand what it was supposed to be, so they tried to make it into something it wasn’t. It’s not supposed to be a car. It’s a different vehicle with different characteristics.” A lesson for us to accept the Aptera for what the founders intended it to be.
“You can’t compete with a 4-wheel vehicle — Ones a fruit and ones a mineral, they’re just completely different.” Like it or not, Aptera will be in competition with every other EV in the US market to include a plethora of low cost EVS entering the market in 2023
“There’s always pushback on pretty much everything”. Judging by forum comments this is true. I think true in all development projects. Everyone thinks their idea is right and the developers are wrong. Kudos to Aptera for holding the line on their concept
“We are starting with supplemental solar, but the goal is to get to almost primary.” Intriguing! This should start a ton of unfounded speculation!
This information on design is out of my area of competence to comment on. I will stick to the engineering and program management stuff I am competent at.
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> “All the cool supercars have them going back to the Lamborghini Countach.”
Just in case anyone wants to refresh their memory.
https://www.lambocars.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/countss8.jpg
I wanted one of these so much when I was a kid back in the 80s. Nearest I’ll ever get is the Aptera 😆
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Thanks, Michael. I know many of us had a Lamborghini poster in a place of honor on our teenage bedroom wall!
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I think it’s funny that the Countach windows were referenced in the context of aero. People who know a bit about the Countach know that “Countach” and “aero” don’t belong in the same paragraph.
Now, the McLaren F1…
Those window bars plus the door opening mechanism means you ain’t hitting up any drive-thrus. That’s arguably a feature though. 😁
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Hi, Nathan. Actually, Aptera made a video not too long ago showing the Alpha prototype going through a drive-through. It looked like the driver was able to grab their order — and that was the point they were trying to make in the video. Here’s the link: https://aptera.us/aptera-myths-debunked/
- This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by
Ray Holan.
- This reply was modified 11 months, 3 weeks ago by
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Quick photoshop to help you visualize how the front of the Aptera might look like with no logo if you continue the black forward. I think it looks pretty elegant.
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Two comments stand out to me.
The first “There’s always pushback on pretty much everything” strikes me as glib, and disregards the reasonable concerns of potential customers.
The second “Design at its core is problem solving”, is more in line with my beliefs.
At the intersection of these two statements is a key to understanding both. When design is employed to solve the manufacturer’s problems at the expense of the user experience (see: touch screen controls-cheaper to build, but annoying af for the owner) you get pushback.
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Most of the video from that interview at the AOC Youtube channel:
Aptera’s Chief of Design, Jason Hill, presentation at the Cleveland Institute of Art – YouTube
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Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Gabriel. Jason and Steve are great people to work with. Glad they were able to agree on an edited version of the video footage.
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I was surprised to see a HUD on the drawing at 14:45. I’d sure like to see that HUD make its way back into the design – but, of course, not if it introduces ANY delays.
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Steve Lee (of “Aptera Owner’s Club”) posted this interview with Jason Hill – Aptera’s designer – on December 14, 2022.
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A perfect embodiment of the design process and philosophy behind. Eloquent. Just love his choice of words that point to his approach. Highly recommend for those here that are always saying things like, “fluffy design speak”, this will show you what the word design means.
- This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by
Paul Kirchner. - This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by
Gabriel Kemeny.
- This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by
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Paul, not only that, but look at the quality of the design! Just amazing. Again, Delta looks better with every photo. I am so happy I have one on order and I am way happy to be an investor as well. Awesome. 😎
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A very nice interview, thanks for the link. Steve Lee has become one of the most useful resources on all things Aptera and I am glad Aptera recognizes that Steve is a great way to communicate with the rest of us. There are some great new images to drool over. The image above is very sleek, i love the use of black at the bottom to emphasize the fish like lines. We have yet to see the new nose and tail, so there may be surprises there. From the image above it seems that the inward curve at the rear is more pronounced. As we already know that the hatch lid will go all the way to that back, that suggests that the lid will have a complex sinusoid curve, unlike gamma. Am I right? And they manage to cover that in solar. It will be stunning.
- This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by
Rob Spruijt.
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Jason was on a Stuart Ungar podcast:
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Jason posted on LinkedIn:
“Pure elegance in the HV-LV system for Aptera. The EE and integration engineers have delivered on the ethos of simplicity and efficiency.”
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Wonder how difficult it would be to reposition the NACS connector to the front or splice in an additional charging port on the front
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Jason posted on LinkedIn and there’s some wild guessing what the “0088” in the image (on the left rear deck) represents:
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Would be cool if that was like a lithograph number for your order on the production line.
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A somewhat recent interview with Jason:
Jason Hill gives us some Aptera updates and a sneak peak at the app! – YouTube
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Jason was on The Inevitable podcast. It’s fairly long -the Aptera portion starts around 1:01:00.
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Great interview, I learned a lot more about Jason Hill.
