Leve 2 Autonomy question.

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Leve 2 Autonomy question.

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Leve 2 Autonomy question.

  • Leve 2 Autonomy question.

     Jonah Jorgenson updated 1 week, 1 day ago 13 Members · 33 Posts
  • Doug Happ

    Member
    October 9, 2021 at 12:55 pm

    I just read about Level 2 autonomy capability (https://tinyurl.com/4fmembx4) and have a question. Would the Level 2 autonomy be of any assistance in getting into, or out of, a tight parking spot or single car garage door?

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    October 9, 2021 at 2:03 pm

    Not by definition, no: Automated parking features are another thing, entirely. Self-parking and automated parking features have been available in many different ICE vehicles for the past decade. “Autonomy” is about vehicles traveling along roads and highways.

  • Doug Happ

    Member
    October 9, 2021 at 2:36 pm

    Ken,

    Excellent answer. Very helpful.

    Doug

  • Carl Knapp Knapp

    Member
    October 9, 2021 at 3:43 pm

    Nearly 10 years ago I read an article about EV self-parking in apartments and high rises. The intent was the ability to have an EV back up automatically and out of the way to allow a portable battery charger to drive up to the vehicle so it could be charged where there are no charging stations. In 2017 VW patented (DE102017220017A1) the mobile charger. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dftBK7ck650&ab_channel=YOUCAR

  • David Maddon

    Member
    October 9, 2021 at 9:24 pm

    By definition no but in reality yes, it’s called a summons feature. It allows you to do just that just can’t use it in the road system in the cars that have it.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      October 10, 2021 at 8:56 am

      “summoning” is not part of the autonomy standard, which was the question asked. It is a feature offered on some vehicles but, as most versions require someone to be standing nearby pushing a button, it’s more of a “remote control” thing….

  • Doug Happ

    Member
    October 9, 2021 at 9:46 pm

    @David Maddon ?? I don’t understand what you wrote. ??

    Sorry

    Doug

  • Paul Evans

    Member
    October 9, 2021 at 10:08 pm

    You may have seen commercials where a person walks up to their car only to find the some jerk has parked so close to the driver’s door that impossible to get into their car. So they get their key fob, press a button, and the car slowly backs out to the point that the driver is able to get in and drive away. That’s an example of a summons capability.

    I wouldn’t expect such a feature be available in the early days of delivery but could be made available via remote update similar to those made by Tesla. I’d be delighted if it’s available by the time my number rolls around, though.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      October 10, 2021 at 8:59 am

      Considering, though, that the body of the Aptera is narrower than its front wheels it would seem nigh on to impossible for another vehicle to park so close to an Aptera as to render its doors inaccessible…

      • Doug Happ

        Member
        October 10, 2021 at 9:11 am

        Ken,

        I’m getting a lot of good information regarding Level 2 and related technologies. All useful. The hidden agenda in my question is pulling into and pulling out of my single car garage door. As the doorway is currently constructed I will have 4 inches to play with. I have considered a possible modification to the opening moulding/weatherstripping that might get me another inch!

        Backing out seems like it will be more challenging than pulling in. I was hoping that the vehicle might provide some whiz-bang technical help.

        Doug

      • Mark Shields

        Member
        October 11, 2021 at 8:38 am

        Never underestimate an oversized SUV or lifted truck owner’s capability in being selfish

        • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

          Member
          October 11, 2021 at 9:10 am

          Mark, yup, I pointed out in the old comments section, if you park nose in, it would be very easy for one or two of the “Damn you green liberals” crowd, to pull their vehicles in in such a way as to block the wheel pods from being able to pull out.

          • Doug Happ

            Member
            October 12, 2021 at 7:33 am

            Oz Man,

            I’m hoping that those same unsavory characters do not make the challenge of backing the Aptera out of my garage any more difficult.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      October 11, 2021 at 8:56 am

      I’ve used Summon for exactly this purpose. Dumb summon, as opposed to Smart Summon which requires the car to navigate through a parking lot, shouldn’t be hard to implement as it doesn’t involve any navigation ability, the person holding the phone is doing everything.

      • Doug Happ

        Member
        October 12, 2021 at 7:35 am

        Joshua,

        Exactly which purpose? Parking space or single car garage?

        • Joshua Rosen

          Member
          October 12, 2021 at 12:48 pm

          Pulling out of a parking space where some pinhead in a monster truck has parked so close that I can’t get to the drivers door, it’s happened to me twice. With the Tesla you just stand behind the car and use your phone to get the car to back out. All it needs to do is drive a few feet backwards in a straight line. Pulling out of a garage would be exactly the same thing.

  • Doug Happ

    Member
    October 10, 2021 at 8:40 am

    @Paul Evans Thanks. Good explanation. Also, it is nice to think that there may be features that become available over time.

  • IA -1

    Member
    December 16, 2021 at 10:43 am

    I don’t need the “Level 2 Safety Pilot”, but it would be nice for me to have the Lane Keeping & Emergency Braking features. Any info if these can be ordered separately in the future? Currently there is no option to do that on the Aptera/ReserveUpgrades page and the full “Safety Pilot” option is $1,300. Thank you for any info.

    • Carl Knapp Knapp

      Member
      December 16, 2021 at 10:53 am

      Safety pilot includes “We will offer Safety Pilot with Level 2 autonomy capability, which includes facial tracking, lane keep, adaptive cruise, and emergency braking.” according to line 115 from Aptera’s FAQ spreadsheet located at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11Of3g6RYqstbXecs7j2UHHd_b8s5MebxEs-ZwkyMiiQ/edit#gid=1847163171

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      December 16, 2021 at 11:03 am

      The definition of level 2 is very vague. Safety Pilot as I understand it is lane keeping, adaptive cruise control and emergency breaking only. It could actually be argued that these features could be considered level 3 since maintaining your lane and not crashing into anyone infront of you on the highway for hundreds of miles would quality as “perform all aspects of the driving task under some circumstances”. I consider this very reasonable for $1300 regardless of label. Tesla FSD is working toward level 3-5 which all bleed together in this stage of development. The levels and practical features all are very grey from 1-4; only 0 (model T) and 5 (perfect autonomous) are truly clear.

      https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/levels-of-autonomous-driving-explained

      • IA -1

        Member
        December 17, 2021 at 4:55 am

        Yes. What I was trying to say is I need Level 1, only lane keeping and emergency braking, I don’t need the car to drive me somewhere. I guess it will be either the entire “Safety Pilot” package or nothing. Lot of other cars have the lane keeping and emergency braking features included at their base packages without any additional cost.

        • Carl Knapp Knapp

          Member
          December 17, 2021 at 7:13 am

          I recently bought a new vehicle and found many with standard FCW (forward collision warning) and LDW (lane departure warning) offered in Level 1. I wanted in between Level 1 and Level 2 like you which offered AEB (automatic emergency braking) and LKA (lane-keeping assistance) which I found only as a $3000+ option or I had to go with a higher package in the car’s model offering. These two sites may help explain the difference in key active safety systems and who offers what in Level 1. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/cars-with-advanced-safety-systems-a7292621135/ https://www.consumerreports.org/autonomous-driving/levels-of-car-automation/

        • kerbe2705

          Member
          December 17, 2021 at 5:41 pm

          Emergency Braking is part of the Level 0 standard – lane keep assist OR adaptive cruise control is Level 1. Level 2 is lane keep assist AND adaptive cruise control.

        • Jonah Jorgenson

          Member
          June 27, 2022 at 5:58 pm

          This is the definition of Level I ADAS.

          “This is the lowest level of automation. The vehicle features a single automated system for driver assistance, such as steering or accelerating (cruise control). Adaptive cruise control, where the vehicle can be kept at a safe distance behind the next car, qualifies as Level 1 because the human driver monitors the other aspects of driving such as steering and braking. This is the lowest level of automation.”

          With Level I you get only ONE driver assist. (Lane keeping, or Adaptive Cruise control, or emergency breaking)

          SafetyPilot will be a Level II assist (When it is implemented) Until that time Aptera comes only with standard cruise control like we have had for years on ICE vehicles.

  • Selvan Poothamby

    Member
    June 27, 2022 at 6:08 am

    Would a standard cruise control be included without this package?

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      June 27, 2022 at 7:21 am

      Yes, standard cruise control comes with the Aptera.

  • Selvan Poothamby

    Member
    June 27, 2022 at 12:09 pm

    Thanks, Jonah!


    With no automated parking, and especially since the right front fender can’t be seen from the driver’s seat (so I’ve heard), is there a camera to display how close we are to the curb? What about a backup camera, is there one?

    • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

      Member
      June 27, 2022 at 12:14 pm

      Backup camera yes, all Aptera will have a video main rearview camera and also a backup camera. No news on anything for the wheel pants.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      June 27, 2022 at 12:16 pm

      The center mirror is a camera so yes it will definitely have a backup camera.

      TBD if a 360 camera system (virtual overhead view for parking) will be included but many vehicles have this and given the width of the Aptera it would be extremely useful. If it isn’t factory I will be adding it to my vehicle since generic ones are on amazon.

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        June 27, 2022 at 12:29 pm

        @Curtis Cibinel All of the prototypes built to date have two rear-facing cameras: One mounted low (below the license plate) – as mandated by Federal law – to show the ground immediately behind and below the vehicle and the other mounted at the top of the hatch to provide a wide-angle view for the rearview screen.

        @Selvan Poothamby Aptera has mentioned having proximity sensors in the front wheel pants – and a recently-shown distributed computing diagram shows a node for each front wheel, which could be another indication.

  • Selvan Poothamby

    Member
    June 27, 2022 at 12:57 pm

    This is great! Thank you! That 88″ is going to take some getting used to.


    Never been one to back into parking spots as a habit but I’m thinking with the Aptera (my soon to be first ev), it may be a good idea to avoid getting blocked in by others next to me.

    • Riley ________________________________

      Member
      June 27, 2022 at 3:36 pm

      I’ve only ever backed into parking spots for every vehicle I’ve ever owned.

      For the Aptera I will be pulling forward into parking spots putting the widest part of the vehicle towards the inner portion of the parking spot. My concern is someone not paying attention to the wheel pants and hitting them while they pull into the parking spot.

      As for being blocked In by someone parking terribly, well at least they didn’t hit my expensive hub motor while parking like an idiot.

  • Selvan Poothamby

    Member
    June 27, 2022 at 4:54 pm

    That’s a good point!

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