- MemberOctober 15, 2021 at 7:35 am
Aptera can be considered a supercar in that regard. In general its 0-60 is better than most supercars of the past, and faster than most present ones if it really is under 3 seconds.
The cheapest car that beats the Aptera is probably the Corvette C8, which will by going up in price they’ve said but is already 2x the price of an Aptera.
The butterfly doors also lend to the supercar feel. 0-60 is what matters, or is cool, in real everyday driving, not top speed.
- MemberOctober 15, 2021 at 8:36 am
It’s not a race car, it has a top speed of only 110 MPH so it won’t beat anything on a track. I have zero interest in a muscle car, what I’m hoping for is that it’s nimble and has good handling, a modern MGB not a modern Roadrunner. I want to take it over Vermont mountain roads at 40MPH, as far as 0-60 is concerned anything better than 7 seconds is fine. The Leno video was not encouraging but that was the Alpha, the beta will have a Roush suspension so I’m hoping for much better.
- ModeratorOctober 15, 2021 at 10:15 am
Hey there, fanfare. Got a kick out of the list. While the low 0-60 time of the Aptera is not the most compelling feature that sold me on buying one, it is one of the standard questions that will probably be asked by people even remotely curious about Aptera.
What’s it cost? How fast is it (both top speed and o-60)? How far on a charge? What happens when an SUV hits you? These are to be anticipated. There’s a certain wow factor about an EV that can beat the 0-60 time of much more expensive ICE cars. Let’s not forget the safety benefit of being able to get out of someone else’s way in a hurry. It’s not just about testosterone-infused bragging rights. Not that I have anything against anyone who’s into hotrods.
- MemberFebruary 5, 2022 at 6:07 am
if remove wheel cover, can install grippier wider tire for customers who want to take advantage of the low weight for this kind of stuff. but the experiments needs to be done by somone, maybe a youtuber customer (they need novel content) so others who care about it would consider aptera for this kind of use, plus the different appearance of car etc.
- This reply was modified 9 months, 4 weeks ago by my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid.
- MemberMay 10, 2022 at 3:00 pm
You can’t the motor is in the wheel…I’m wondering how it’ll survive when you hit pot holes at 40 mph? I imagine it won’t be as easy as replacing a tire and bend rims…Maybe this is the reason why no EV company has made the motor on the wheel? plus ppl like to put their own rims and not pay $ when a wheel is damaged?
- This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Mark Noon.
- MemberMay 10, 2022 at 4:14 pm
The motor is in the wheel not the rim that the tire is mounted on. You can easily take the rim/tire off and mount a different tire that would fit on the rim and under the wheel/tire boots. This is not a good idea as the Aptera systems are adjusted to a specific tire size.
It will survive as well as any other tire/wheel under the conditions you state.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by John Malcom. Reason: added sentence
- MemberMay 10, 2022 at 8:37 pm
Mark Noon: You’re idea of in-wheel motors is difficult to square with reality. The wheels and tires attach to the in-wheel motor in the same way an ICE vehicle’s wheels bolt to the brake rotor. Indeed, the IWMotors incorporate a disc brake in addition to its motor.
Hence, if you remove the wheel pants and have a 40″ balloon tires and wheels bolted into place and a way to float the rear maybe with a hydrofoil, the Aptera would probably perform like the ‘skeeter’ bug some other poster here compared it to.
This may be waaaay off, but I figure if the front wheels were as large as I imagine, they’d give this mega-wheeled, water-adapted Aptera a theoretical top speed of about 300 mph.
While I’m quick to admit this sounds silly on first blush, I consider Aptera a lot closer to being a successful “amphicar” than the steel-bodied, Amphicar of which you had to lube in 13 places after each excursion into the water.
The Aptera weighs less and adding larger wheels and tires seems quite feasible. A clever, even elegant design of an extensible hydrofoil or pontoon from the rear of the Aptera is the primary challenge. As far as the initial inspiration, just know I spent my first 18 years living a mile from the muddy Mississippi and, well, paddle wheels come with that territory.
But, back to the original point … the in wheel motors are more analogous to the disk brake rotor than to the wheel and tire that, just like an ICE vehicle, attaches to the lugs on the rotor.
I didn’t realize when I finished writing my response that the original topic was the reaction to the fact the Aptera’s stats are those of a high-performance car. Anyway, I’ve run across youtubes of folks who compiled lists like the top ten fastest muscle cars of 1969 and ’70 – the literal hay day of that genre when the hemi’s battled the 427’s and 454’s in mid-sized multi-carb’d, manually shifted Deeetroit Iron … and the fastest in the quarter mile was like 13.4 at 108 mph … and the projections for the Aptera are 11.5 at 110, the Aptera having reached terminal speed in the eighth of mile.
Amongst our more mature compatriots, I think the simple knowledge that our Aptera is hotter than the hottest stock hot rod we could have bought back in the day when we couldn’t afford the insurance for such a vehicle.
But what will please me most is that while the hot rodder would burn at least a dollar’s worth of fuel in that quarter-mile (at today’s prices) while my Aptera, might, at most, use a quarter of a kilowatt, which at my overnight rate, two-cents.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by George Hughes.
- MemberFebruary 5, 2022 at 11:43 am
There is a big difference between written performance estimates and real-world performance.
Aptera can’t beat anything until it is actually being produced.
- MemberFebruary 5, 2022 at 1:34 pm
More important in the real world is the moose test speed (iso double lane change). They haven’t said anything and are still working on it but by analyzing the video (at 1/4 speed) and test specs it looks like they have beta doing the test at 45 mph (72 kph). This means any stability concerns with 3 wheels are a non issue and the aptera will out handle most 4 wheeled cars in an emergency.
- MemberFebruary 6, 2022 at 6:39 am
The only achievement I am interested in these days is how to get from A to B only using solar energy.
- MemberMay 10, 2022 at 4:16 pm
as is mine! in an Aptera of course
- MemberFebruary 6, 2022 at 7:00 am
Speed is important but I wish to drive by charging stations and gas stations smiling and waving.
- MemberFebruary 17, 2022 at 2:28 pm
Does anybody know on what battery version the acceleration is based. I assume it is on the biggest pack? And if so….could the lesser weight versions even be faster than 3,5(3 motors) seconds and 5 seconds(2 motors)? And how much faster would that be? This all based on what I saw on the latest drag race video with the Audi and the Tesla…..
- MemberFebruary 17, 2022 at 2:39 pm
They haven’t built any big battery versions yet. Their production plan is to do 40KWh (give or take, the exact number is still up in the air) first, then the 25KWh version. The 60KWh and 100KWh battery versions will follow. According to the video they put up yesterday when they were answering ambassador questions they haven’t finalized the battery pack and it sounds like they haven’t quite finalized the battery supplier, thus the uncertainty about the exact pack size. Until they’ve built a production intent vehicle and actually tested it the published performance numbers should all be taken with a shaker full of salt. I don’t see how they can have real numbers for the range and acceleration until late summer, and that will be for the 40KWh battery. Real numbers for the 60KWh and 100KWh versions can’t possibly be available until sometime next year.
- MemberFebruary 17, 2022 at 2:44 pm
My thought was: the heavier the vehicle, the slower the acceleration… So second thought: how did they calculate the acceleration?
- ModeratorFebruary 17, 2022 at 3:46 pm
Simple Physics and Newtons Law, F = ma, or Forcee = mass times acceleration.
Solving for acceleration we have a = F/m.
If you know the mass (they do) and the force (calculated from the known torque of their motors), they can calculate their acceleration. (Easy peasy.)
I read that Chris Anthony stated those accelerations apply to their heaviest 100 KWH battery Aptera. The others should be faster, as long as the tires don’t slip.
- MemberFebruary 17, 2022 at 4:04 pm
I asked the same questions on one of the webinars, they said that the 25kw battery should be faster like a 3.1 sec but that they can’t know for sure yet. cross fingers!!
- AdministratorFebruary 17, 2022 at 4:21 pm
Hi Elzo! Thank you for this question. We are still testing to establish more accurate numbers all around to see exactly how the weight affects acceleration. But what I can tell you is: The time it takes to get from 0-60 mph will increase as your battery pack size goes up. We expect .2 – .4 of a second difference between the times from 25kWh to 100kWh packs.
- MemberFebruary 17, 2022 at 7:53 pm
So nice to finally see Aptera active in these forums!! Welcome aboard!!
- MemberFebruary 17, 2022 at 7:54 pm
@Kayleigh Venne Terrific information! Could it be added to the FAQ on Google Drive?
- MemberFebruary 18, 2022 at 6:42 am
a potential 3.1 second 0-60 on the fastest specked version is amazing. I wonder what kind of crazy numbers a rear dully would provide, sub 2.9 second quad motor aptera.
- MemberFebruary 19, 2022 at 9:39 am
Yes quite nice to get official answers!! And what I thought was true….
- MemberFebruary 20, 2022 at 11:16 pm
I want to throw another spanner into the works …
As far as I can see in videos shown how the range of the #APTERA can be extended when you turn certain functions on of off or the range can be diminished on how you accelerate (Driving behaviour) everything is calculated based upon the weight of the #APTERA.
I think they should put 3 small load cells at the points where the vehicle body load onto the 3 wheels. This way they can accurately adjust the range as the #APTERA gets loaded with different weight people with or without the passenger and if the boot is empty or loaded to the brim.
I think all these points mentioned will all have an effect on the driving range of the #APTERA.
- ModeratorMarch 12, 2022 at 10:59 am
Aptera Owner’s Club just posted that https://www.motormatchup.com website has included data sets for different Aptera configurations. These can be used to run a simulated drag race against another make and model car you choose. I ran my prospective 40kWh AWD Aptera against my Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid. You get a very entertaining graphic portrayal of the “race” with results. It’s all “fantasy football”, but a real hoot! Try it out.
- MemberMarch 12, 2022 at 12:42 pm
That was fun. “My” 40kWh FWD Aptera bested my ’18 Audi A5 Sportback. The Audi pulled away first, then Aptera blew past.
- MemberMarch 12, 2022 at 6:14 pm
Here is a fun matchup – different winners at various ranges. https://motormatchup.com/simulation?id=&ids=6142321f831978846a96b754%2C6078611961d9a3cc1a8dce50%2C606b2f9205cd693ba59b1ee4&distance=1&starting_speed=0&surface=DRY
Ps: my original post seems to have been eaten.
- ModeratorMarch 14, 2022 at 7:50 am
Wow. That’s an impressive 0-60 time for the 25kWh Aptera. That was the configuration I reserved originally thinking the lower curb weight of the 25kWh pack model would smoke the 40kWh pack model. However, the rumors about the 25kWh models being produced AFTER the 40kWh, 60kWh, and 100kWh models convinced me to switch to the 40kWh.
- MemberMarch 14, 2022 at 8:31 am
Ray, I thought they said the 25 would follow right after the 40. No?
- MemberMarch 14, 2022 at 8:55 am
Yeah, what rumors? Aptera has consistently advised that the order of introduction of battery packs is 40-25-60-100.
- MemberMarch 14, 2022 at 9:18 am
OZ is correct. The order of adding to the assembly line has always been 40 25 60 and 100. I have never heard or seen anything to the contrary. Forty will start first, then 25 added to 40, then 60 added to 40 and 25, and finally 100 added to 40,25,60. At that point all will be assembled on the line simultaneously.
- MemberMarch 14, 2022 at 10:28 am
I could see this annoying some paradigm+ reservation holders that will end up waiting. From a numbers perspective it makes total sense that the 1000 will be the least ordered but it is also an incredible showpiece for marketing purposes.
- MemberMarch 12, 2022 at 8:31 pm
Well, since I don’t own a dog in this fight (and dog is the appropriate term for the performance of my 2018 Subaru Impreza) I used the one I wish I owned, the Tesla Model Y AWD. So happy to see my Aptera 600 AWD scorch the Tesla, thanks for the fun Ray!
- MemberMarch 13, 2022 at 8:53 am
Aptera vs Rivian R1T Launch Edition vs BMW M850 Grand Gran Coupe
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 6:58 am
A question for those who have driven an EV: will the accelerating torque be the same at 70 mph as it is at 5 mph.? Another way to ask: is the accelerating torque the same at all speeds? “Accelerating torque” – please forgive me if this is an inaccurate way to identify what I’m asking. Hope it is clear. Correct me if there is a better way to ask this question.
- This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by John Wiley.
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 8:58 am
Pretty much, electric motors have a fairly flat torque curve.
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 9:05 am
I can own both an electric car and electric motorcycle. I guess for me the best way to describe. Torque will always be at hundred percent available…almost instantaneously, your motors though have their limits, just like any combustion engine. My i3 is extremely fast off the line but eventually looses it’s initial gain as the electric motor reaches its capacity. No different riding my Zero srf bike (although much more thrilling). An example, Roll-on numbers reflect from 40–60 in 1.2 seconds and 60–80 in only 1.7 seconds. I am expecting similar numbers from the Aptera…both are advertised at 0-60 at 3.5 seconds…Aptera using 3 motors. Hope this was helpful.
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 10:43 am
Very helpful. Thanks. So, I’m concluding that I will experience a slight roll-off in acceleration at faster speeds, but should continue to accelerate at higher speeds way better than your average ice vehicle.
- MemberJune 20, 2022 at 11:46 am
More so than you think. When I am next to someone stopped at a light and I know I want to pass them. Acceleration from a stop is awesome. You will find that the ice car driver next to you will be caught off guard…generally we try and listen to the car next to you….no ice engine sounds to give them warning…just quite servitude.
- MemberSeptember 6, 2022 at 1:05 pm
I’d like to start by saying that the testing method mentioned in this post is standard for a lot of American car companies and magazines, including the NHRA and all major car manufacturers, and I am merely wondering if Aptera uses this testing method as opposed to accusing them of doing so.
Let’s cover this definition first: Rollout.
Rollout or rollout allowance in North-American drag racing is the difference between actual acceleration time and measured acceleration time. For the published 0 to 60 mph acceleration time in North America, a rolling start is used, beginning 1 foot (0.3 m) after the initial standing start position.Rollout or rollout allowance in North-American drag racing is the difference between actual acceleration time and measured acceleration time. For the published 0 to 60 mph acceleration time in North America, a rolling start is used, beginning 1 foot (0.3 m) after the initial standing start position.
This means every 0-60 time, from Toyota Prius’ to Tesla Plaids, are actually not 0-60 times, they are the time of speed after 1 foot to 60mph. This is important because when you’re accelerating you have to avoid overcoming the traction of the tires. Imagine if in the first one foot you spin the tires, adding .3 seconds of time. This pushes the Tesla plaid to 2.29 seconds and the aptera to 3.8 seconds. Also, sometimes the acceleration in the first foot is less acceleration than the remaining because getting things going from a stop is harder than getting something going that’s already moving.
There is also the question about battery weight. Theoretically, the fastest model of the Aptera will be the one with the smallest battery, as it will take less energy to reach the same momentum if you have a lesser amount of mass. The 0-60 time does not change between battery models which is a big question mark to me.
I will end this post with a request from Aptera: Launch Mode. With all of these questions it seems strange to request, as I have more questions than answers regarding this topic, but I have to say that 0-60 speed is one of the biggest factors in my decision to buy an Aptera and I’d like more transparency and testing regarding the subject. I’d hate for the community to have to figure out this by doing their own testing once vehicles begin getting delivered.
- MemberSeptember 6, 2022 at 1:22 pm
Personally I don’t care about how the zero to 60 is measured, about the insignificant difference between the two methods or what the resulting values are. I am buying an Aptera for its efficiency and not drag racing or any 0 to 60 performance on or off a track.
Launch mode for an Aptera is a non sequitur and certainly not part of the efficiency ethos of Aptera. I am sure there will be no launch mode delivered with an Aptera.
- MemberSeptember 7, 2022 at 7:10 am
1.99 seconds divided by 2.29 seconds equals 86.8% honesty and 13.2% lies. Not huge, but not insignificant, either. This testing method is deceptive, but perhaps it helps lower the difference caused by economy tires? Then Toyota doesn’t have to put UHP tires on the Prius and the rest of their fleet just for 0-60 testing. As OP said, every manufacturer tests this way, so “if you can’t beat them, join them”.
By the way John, you are always “sure” about everything you write in every post (which is a LOT). I wish I had your level of foresight and intuition. “My way or the highway!” so to speak.
- MemberSeptember 7, 2022 at 9:45 am
As long as everyone uses the same lie then numbers are still relative and useful. Aptera especially with AWD will be a fast vehicle but not soo fast that gimmicks like launch mode are needed. Software for the Aptera will be basic initially and will likely never catch up with Tesla – games, toys, and every major service will probably never be included. Development is expensive.
If I had to guess I expect the features will be something like (pure conjecture):
- Basic preheat cabin
- Battery Limit and Usage stats (focus in marketing)
- Navigation and music streaming (one vendor) with some weird quirks and poor if any voice or phone integration
Within 1 Year:
- Sentry Mode Equivalent
- Pet Mode Equivalent
- Battery preconditioning
Within 2 Years:
- Netflix and perhaps one other streaming service
- Most navigation and music issues resolved
- MemberSeptember 7, 2022 at 4:28 pm
- MemberSeptember 7, 2022 at 7:53 pm
I am confident. It comes from decades of engineering experience in this business domain. If you have been there done that a hundred times it is pretty easy to see where things will go. It is not my way or the highway, It is according to the engineering plan and how closely the engineering organization adheres to their culture. Aptera is draconian about sticking to their plan and culture. Others may say “Hey about this or that” Aptera says this is what is in the plan and what it will be. Part of the ambassador’s role is to help people stay on track with what Aptera wants there vehicle to be.
There certainly is nothing wrong with speculation, but at the end of the day we need to return to what was planned and what can be done with the time and resources available and those things marketable to the majority of potential buyers.
You certainly are free to post as much as you want too. It is a demonstration of interest and commitment to what Aptera stands for and what it will be in the market place. you certainly are free to disagree with me.
- MemberSeptember 11, 2022 at 10:43 am
Thank you John Malcom, that is a much more mature pose than others on this forum have shown me. I definitely learn more from conversing with people that disagree with me, than I learn from people that agree with me (true for every human, wish they would realize). I am here solely because of my interest in Aptera,
- MemberSeptember 7, 2022 at 10:19 am
Here, here John.