Maintenance/Forbes

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Maintenance/Forbes

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Maintenance/Forbes

  • Maintenance/Forbes

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    May 4, 2022 at 11:10 am

    Forbes: Electric Vehicle Maintenance Is Super-Cheap, But The Dark Secret Is Tires.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2022/05/02/electric-vehicle-maintenance-is-super-cheap-but-the-dark-secret-is-tires

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    May 4, 2022 at 11:20 am

    Kinda overstated. This is mostly about heavy Tesla’s and is managed by rotating; new tires every 30,000 miles rather than 50,000 isnt a huge deal and that is probably worst case. The Aptera is light enough that this should be a non-issue and tires should last atleast as long as rated.

    • Vernon Michael Gardner

      Member
      May 5, 2022 at 12:07 am

      Curtis, that sounds like a long time between rotations. I’ve been in the business quite a while and you probably want to rotate them at least half that if not every 5,000 or so. Suspension items wear, potholes get hit, curbs get tapped, shocks and struts wear out 50k to 100k miles and all those things cause movement in the suspension and can change alignments and contribute to tire wear. Technically speaking you cannot rotate tires too often.

      P.S. alignment should be checked about every 2 years or 20,000 to 36,000 MI depending on driving conditions.

  • Jonathan Reni

    Member
    May 4, 2022 at 11:23 am

    Interesting article. I think this ends up being a net positive for the Aptera, since one of the primary causes listed is the increased weight of EVs. Aptera is lighter than the average car, so this will be beneficial. The question for me is how will tire rotations on the Aptera affect tire wear.

    • Scott P

      Member
      May 4, 2022 at 12:49 pm

      It is going to be interesting to see which type of tire Aptera chooses: multidirectional or unidirectional. Unidirectional tires frequently provide better performance and wet/snow traction, though multidirectional tires have more flexibility on tire location and rotation patterns. Modern multidirectional radial tires can still be rotated both front and back plus left to right. However, modern unidirectional radial tires must be maintained on the same side of the vehicle though can be swapped front and back. The main issue for unidirectional is that it has a prescribed direction of forward rotation. So, for the Aptera’s middle back tire it would be more about direction of rotation than which side of the vehicle it is on.

      On a three wheeled Aptera, multidirectional tires should allow a full clockwise or counterclockwise rotation pattern or such. Unidirectional radial tires would create rotation pattern issues, though (example: first rotation could be swapping front left and back tire while leaving the front right where it is, but then you could not rotate the front right with the back tire on the next rotation since that back tire was previously the front left and needs to stay on that left or middle “side” of the vehicle).

      It will be interesting to see what Aptera determines for final tire type and their recommendation regarding rotation patterns.

      • Jonathan Reni

        Member
        May 5, 2022 at 9:50 am

        I dont have any expertise in this, but I wonder if they could go with unidirectional on the front and bidirectional on the back. To me, it seems you would want to rotate to front two tires with eachother and then flip the back tire. This might be way off though.

        • Scott P

          Member
          May 5, 2022 at 3:06 pm

          Jonathan, good to try to think it through. You were wondering “if they could go with unidirectional on the front” and “rotate the front two tires with each other”. Unfortunately, that would not work. If the front tires are unidirectional, then their direction of rotation is only one way. The front left tire rotates forward counter-clockwise when viewed from outside toward the vehicle, and the front right tire instead rotates clockwise. A front left unidirectional tire could not be swapped over to the front right side since that would reverse each tire’s direction of rotation to the opposite of its intended design.

          • Jonathan Reni

            Member
            May 5, 2022 at 3:23 pm

            I understand what you’re saying here. My meaning wasn’t rotating the wheels. You’d have to remove the tires and and swap them in the original direction to the original rims. Not sure if that makes sense. Probably easier here to just go with bidirectional tires and swap the whole wheel.

            • Scott P

              Member
              May 5, 2022 at 3:32 pm

              Ah, gotcha. Yes, your idea could be possible though certainly a good bit more work and equipment needed than a normal tire rotation (where the tires always stay on their wheel rims). Agreed that Aptera might go with multi-directional tires so that the tires can be used in an easy rotation pattern. The trade-off will just be that tire performance may not be quite as high as unidirectional tires generally provide in comparison.

            • Jonathan Reni

              Member
              May 5, 2022 at 4:53 pm

              I once had a sports car with staggered front and rear wheel sizes. The tires were directional and had to be swapped side to side. But I do think that as long as the performance between uni and bi is similar enough, then bidirectional is the easy best choice.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    May 4, 2022 at 12:41 pm

    It’s all about weight. EVs are heavier than comparable size cars so the tires wear out faster. The Aptera is much lighter than any other car but it also only has three wheels. If we take the curb weight of a Camry, 3600lbs and divide by 4 that’s 900lbs per tire. The Aptera is 2000lbs, divide by 3 and you have 666lbs per tire, much less load per tire.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      May 4, 2022 at 1:09 pm

      Depending on the Camry model they can also have a tire which is 4cm wider than the aptera. That is more weight relative to the contact patch. Aptera might wear tires about as quickly as a Camry and thats fine.

      Not sure about ideal rotation patterns ; likely the fronts will get more wear overall. Even if you keep a 4th mounted tire directional tires will make rotation basically useless. Think I’ll get 3 winters, 3 summers and an emergency spare and just run them in the same positions when changing.

    • Joshua Caldwell

      Member
      May 4, 2022 at 2:05 pm

      Joshua Rosen, I appreciate that bit of math in your reply.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        May 4, 2022 at 2:12 pm

        Curtis made a good point too. To do the calc correctly you need to compute the total tread area. However as a back of the envelope calculation what I did was close enough because the Aptera is so light compared to any standard car that we can feel confident that excess tire wear won’t be a problem unless there some sort of alignment issue.

        • Ray Holan

          Moderator
          May 5, 2022 at 7:05 am

          Good observations in this thread. I can offer my tire experience with 3 different Gen1 Honda Insights. Curb weight is 1,850 lbs. and tire size 165/65/14 — skinny compared to the 195’s currently anticipated for the Aptera. I found that I could easily get 50K from a set of tires on the Insight even without rotating the two fronts to the rear every 5K miles. I also ran high tire pressures (45 psi) on them without any weird wear patterns. If you’re not carting around a set of barbells or pulling lateral g’s on a skidpad every day, it pays off in longer tire wear.

  • Fanfare 100

    Member
    May 4, 2022 at 2:50 pm

    For year I’ve had my source of quality Turkish tyres (Waterfall, is the brand name). They are one of the ones to whom Pirelli outsources. They just don’t stamp the Pirelli brand. And since I don’t care what is actually stamped on them I get them at reasonable prices. Been doing this for years.

    As such, an Aptera tyre will cost you about $70 USD each. Not bad.

    And, here’s a pro tip for I’m sure I will get flamed, but, who cares. If you order the off-road package it will come with a bit more of margin for road clearance. Then, if instead of the standard 195/45 R16 you get 195/55 R16, guess what, suddenly the Aptera top speed will be 117 MPH instead of 110 MPH, at the expense of a slightly higher drag coefficient and very slightly slower acceleration. So, instead of doing 0 to 60 in 3.5 seconds, you’ll do it in 3.73 seconds, well, boohoo. lol Enjoy!

    ok, I’m like the honey badger, let the flames begin! XD

    • John Malcom

      Member
      May 4, 2022 at 5:20 pm

      No flames from me. An interesting hack. even 110 is to fast for me

    • V Pilot

      Member
      May 4, 2022 at 6:44 pm

      Nor from me. I’ve been running 33 x 9 tires on my trucks since my ’96 F150. The Frontier only needs a nominal 1″ lift to fit them. On the cars I usually run same diameter but a size narrower, just be mindful of the load ratings.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      May 4, 2022 at 7:33 pm

      3.73 is confusing 0-60. If the wheels are bigger it comes down to torque / traction which would seem to be non-trivial to know; if the motor can handle it the vehicle would be faster. This obviously would also throw off the speedometer.

      PS: I really wonder about motormatchups numbers which has a 1.2 second 0-60 difference between the battery sizes.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        May 5, 2022 at 7:44 am

        This chart must be assuming that the only difference is weight. A bigger battery can put out more current which would translate into more power assuming that the battery and not the motors or the controller is the bottleneck.

    • Vernon Michael Gardner

      Member
      May 5, 2022 at 12:16 am

      Fan, even that little height difference will change the calculations made by the computers in mileage, mileage to mileage from, speedometer as well as many other calculations. Going to a taller tire increases breaking distance and sidewall deflection.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    May 4, 2022 at 9:10 pm

    It’s pretty much common practice to run EVs on LRR rubber – and Aptera’s rather small tire size (195/45-16) limits the selection.

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