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Manufacturing plans
updated 1 week, 6 days ago
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I would love to learn more about what’s going on with the change of manufacturing facilities, why the change is happening, and what this means for overall delivery schedules. If there’s a new article/release out there that explains, please leave a link for me to follow.
Thanks,
David
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there is no “Change” in manufacturing facilities. Aptera is “Looking” for a manufacturing facility. The facility they are currently in is their development facility where they are advancing their prototypes. It is a development facility
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My mistake.
Is there any company-generated information on timelines for beta prototypes and start of production?
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can anyone out there tell me when cars will start to be delivered ?
its like pulling teeth to get any sort of idea on projected delivery dates …….
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The first production vehicle is scheduled to be delivered at the end of this calendar year with deliveries to reservation holders starting in 2022. You can look at the SEC filings on the site for the schedule furnished to the SEC. I would imagine that the reemergence of the COVID Delta Variant may impact the Aptera schedule as it will everything else
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The December update now says deliveries will start in “late” 2022. Dang! I wanna sell my ICE car while the prices are high.
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In the 2021 Annual Report, it says on page 19:
• Deliver a vehicle to a customer by the end of the year.
• Then build out our facilities and ramp up production accordingly in 2022.
It is interesting they say “a customer”.
This report can be accessed from their website.
If I remember correctly, they found their development facility in a location which had ample room they could expand into for manufacturing. Apparently they decided to not use the potential manufacturing space, and instead look elsewhere.
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If you look at the location of their current office/development facility, there’s no way that could be a manufacturing location – way too small. Even at the low end of 10K vehicles per year produced, it would mean just the parking lot outside to hold the vehicles to be shipped needs to probably accommodate at least 100 vehicles (less than a week of production).
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In the following video with Sandy Munro, Chris and Steve talk about their manufacturing and development building plans.
It is at time 6:00.
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I’m an investor and we all know Sandy with Munro & Associates will be a major influence on production. I believe Sandy is also an investor. Parts I and II…. I watched part II first – these guys are good. So glad to have them working for us.
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So by this time (8/13/21) the first stage of the manufacturing facility could be set up already? Wouldn’t it be cool if a few shots of that set up could be shown. ????
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Doubt that any of the setup is done even at this point. Beta build is not complete and no major testing started. The results of both could affect manufacturing planning. I would imagine next level (Detailed) planning based on Sandy Munro’s process is ongoing now that the facility layout is known and establishing the supply chain is the priority. 10/24/2021
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As much as I would also like to see signs of manufacturing progress, with the hand assembly process we’ve heard about, I’m not sure how one would judge much before cars are actually moving through. (gamma’s?) No giga (or even mini) presses, stampers, fancy robots, paint dips, etc. Patience, I guess, (although I have often felt patience was overrated.)
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A really good point. The traditional trappings of production set up progress will be missing for Aptera. I am on the fence on patience at this point.
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I am so impatient I thought of applying to be the crash test dummy. I would have to wear those little target stickers on my head!????????
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I bought my Genesis GV80 three weeks before Tiger Woods became my crash test dummy.????????????
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Our wait may be longer than originally thought
Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA agree: The chip shortage isn’t ending anytime soon
October 25, 2021
The ongoing chip shortage is causing low stock and high prices for everything from computers to Cameros. And unfortunately, it isn’t going away anytime soon. Speaking to shareholders to announce Intel’s third-quarter financial earnings, Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger said that he doesn’t expect the shortage to end until 2023 — at the earliest.
“We’re in the worst of it now, every quarter next year we’ll get incrementally better, but they’re not going to have supply-demand balance until 2023,” Gelsinger told CNBC. Intel recently said that the chip shortages are dragging down laptop sales, and warned that it might be hard to find juicy PC deals this holiday season.
The other titans of the chip trade agree, to one degree or another. In a similar earnings call in August, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang told investors that he expects supply chain issues to continue for “the vast majority” of 2022. Nvidia’s graphics cards have been in shockingly short supply for almost two years now, sending secondary market prices skyrocketing as scalpers, cryptocurrency miners, and the occasional PC gamer fight to get what few GPUs are available on the retail market.
Intel and Nvidia’s primary competition in the PC world concurs, though they’re slightly more optimistic. Speaking at the Code Conference in September, AMD CEO Lisa Su predicted that the chip shortage will become “less severe” in the second half of 2022, after being “tight” in the first half.
It doesn’t end there. Leaders at Qualcomm, ARM, Samsung, and Apple all agree that the chip shortage will continue well into 2022, with different levels of pessimism for longer predictions. Industrial powers are trying to boost supply with expanded manufacturing while legislators attempt to help them out, with varying degrees of success. But the consensus seems to be that next year will continue to see high prices and limited stock for almost everything that has a chip inside of it.
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While that is not good news, it is not new news. This should give them (Aptera) plenty of time to get production in good order. I just hope the chip supplier(s) gets their order to them as the date they promised. I also hope Aptera placed a blanket order to hold a place in line over the next few years as they ramp up. I know it is hard to do, but I think a necessary step.
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The chips that nvidia and intel make have nothing to do with the impact on automotive; the SOCs and other controllers in cars are far simpler. Low cost arm chips for the infotainment and other standard chips for cars haven’t been in great supply but haven’t been as extreme as GPU shortages. A modern design will allow some flexibility and the bulk of production ramp will probably not be until ~summer. As a result I doubt this will be much of a problem for Aptera as long as they have the foresight to get their orders in soon.
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I agree. The chips used in vehicles are far simpler than those used in computers. I doubt Aptera is purchasing chips and mounting them on printed circuit boards. At least, I hope they are not designing custom circuits. These would be very difficult to replace if Aptera goes out of business. It is best if common existing subsystems from auto suppliers are used because they would be easier to replace.
Excuse the avatar name change. I got tired of constantly changing my “nickname” from my real name to “Pistonboy”, so I changed my first name to Pistonboy and threw in Delux for the last name. For those who do not like it, its “Mr. Delux” to you!
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That is really the one big thing I have been concerned about. Finding a way to continue with the vehicle in the event the company doesn’t make it. I know it is negative thinking and I expect only the best for Aptera for many decades to come, but I have some experience with unsupported and expensive tech.
I would appreciate any advice on what to keep an eye out for.
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All you can do is look at the health of the company at the time of your purchase and make a guess as to whether they will survive for the next couple of years. I bought my Model 3 in mid 2019, at the time I figured that they had enough value that if they went bankrupt someone would buy them but I wasn’t confident that they wouldn’t go bankrupt. Little did anyone know that in two years Tesla would be worth a TRILLION freaking dollars and that if I had bought their stock instead of the car I’d be looking a small fortune, but hey, 20/20 hindsight.
Aptera will be riskier than Tesla in that it’s less likely that someone will sweep in and buy them out of bankruptcy. The first time around they were bought by a Chinese company that did absolutely nothing with them.
My criteria for pulling the trigger will be if I consider them likely to survive for at least a year after I purchase it. This is money that I can afford to lose and that’s what will happen if they go under, If they aren’t around I don’t see how it will be possible to repair the car if anything important breaks. If you can’t afford to kiss off your investment you should wait a few years to see if they are going to survive before you buy one.
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The larger a company is when it goes out of business, the greater the chance someone will buy it up and continue to make parts available. But Aptera is a small company with a small output. That scenario does not look good. I will probably baby mine and only drive it on country roads.
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They should look at Texas , lower corporate tax rate , more business friendly , this could potentially lower the cost of the vehicle by a good percentage to make up for the buffoonery inflation of 6.8% and rising
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Due to the low amount of machines and footprint they don’t have a lot of benefits in centralization. If they can get a 80-200k sq ft space they can setup a factory, distribution and repair center in one. Ideally they can add new ones over time all over the place.
My big concern is how efficiently they can handle the wrapping of cars. Wrapping a car in vinyl is technical high skill work which will make it really hard to be consistent in the result. Ideally a simpler solution (ie spray on wrap, traditional paint or clearcoat over natural material color etc) will need to be found because getting a small army of good wrappers will be really hard. Unfortunately traditional paint is super expensive to scale.
It takes 2-3 days typically to wrap a car. Even if we assume the smooth Aptera curves and repeatedly doing the same vehicle takes this down to 8 hours of work this is a huge factor in scaling. The 10,000 cars per year goal for the initial facility (~30 vehicles per day including weekends) will require a team of about 45 skilled wrappers – this is a lot.
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Is the wrap done by a single person per car? Or by a team of how many?
How many cars per day or days per car can a team wrap an Aptera?With the production goal of 40 cars per day at peak volume, how many folks will be needed to wrap 40 cars per day?
Just curious!
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Wrapping an Altera will be VERY difficult. I’ve wrapped cars. The curvier the harder the wrap!
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Is there any reason to wrap it at all? It’s a composite body, it won’t need anything to keep it from rusting. Can’t they just put a pigment in the plastic to get different colors?
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Perhaps the natural pigments cant make the colors clean enough or they fade/yellow; No idea, but they have been clear that the car is a wrap which is unfortunate because wraps degrade with sun exposure and are ~$1500 to redo every 5-7 years. I’ll try to remember to ask that at a future ambassador meeting.
One guy will typically wrap a normal car in 2-3 days of work from what I’ve read. I suspect a team could do it but the total man hours would likely be the same or worse. This is an assumption based on the fact that wrap shops generally have one guy do a job.
As Riley identified in another thread spray on wraps are also an option and might reduce the skill vs traditional wrapping but then the question because why not paint traditionally.
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Curtis. Have you any idea what boat builders with Aptera-like production rates do for color? I always thought they used pigments in the gel and that certainly is sun-resistant. They whole wraps thing seems expensive, slow, and less durable. (Even though I did wrap my MYP because Tesla paint had a poor reputation at the time. Much more than $1500, btw.) Wraps for trim and fancy stuff, perhaps.
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what would be the turn around time on a wrap that is heat/vacuum formed before being applied?
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You have to be right. The colors are in the pigment. That is why there are ONLY three standard factory finishes.
The wraps are there as an option and given the pattern is digital, users will be able to do what ever custom, including commercial, design and/or color scheme they wish.
I suspect that as the brand matures, they’ll come up with custom colored skins for special anniversary models and probably contract-out the skin to a third-party sub.
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I hope your right but I’m fairly sure they stated they were all wraps. As an investor I see this as my biggest concern with production.
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All the cars will be wrapped , black white silver they are all wraps
I can only guess that because the republic of California has such horrid epa laws that painting the cars would be far too costly with the proper booths and equipment to meet the standards.
Plus they aren’t Fiberglas with a gelcoat that is tinted , so they can’t impregnate the body with color
So wrap was the easiest solution
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California has the best EPA laws. And as always, the rest of the country will at some point, adopt them as well.
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If Aptera can solve the whole wrap issue that’d be great. I know that they will be pigmenting the composite in the 3 color options but that they’re intending to use wrap as well. Would prefer mine to need as little maintenance as possible… I’d be ok for them to just clear coat the composite to bring out and protect the shine of the pigment. That would be the quickest and probably cheapest route for Aptera to take.
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Henry, citation please, I don’t recall anything about tinting the composite to the three base colors, and pictures of Sol in transit from Reno showed it with a basic black color.
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Back in June I asked about this and someone from Aptera responded:
“The base of our Alpha vehicles has been black to start. However, we anticipate that the colors of the production versions of Noir, Luna and Sol will be Black, Silver, and White at their base, without a wrap.”
They also confirmed that this is the Sol without the wrap, which appears to already have a gloss finish, so I may just have this clear coated, either by them or after delivery.
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Henry, Excellent, Thanks.
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Would love it if Aptera allowed us to choose to wrap or not, especially if they’re planning on pigmenting the composite to the three base colors, with perhaps adding protective clear-coat as Henry suggested. If wrapping as expensive, labor intensive as others have indicated, maybe choosing not to wrap would be available as discounted option!
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Lou, as I understood it, (Citation not handy) The permits needed for and eco impact of painting were greater than for wrapping.
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Oz Man, if clear-coating same as painting, then I’d be happy to take my Sol with just pigmented composite. Could always have it clear-coated elsewhere as long as that didn’t have negative impact on composite.
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Per the following discussion on fb someone claimed to have confirmation from Aptera that all versions (Sol, noir, and Luna) are wrapped. John also stated that and I doubt he did so without confirmation. https://www.facebook.com/groups/apterafans/?ref=share
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I can confirm that all production Aptere sold to retail buyers will be wrapped either with one of three standard colors or custom wrapped at additional charge. The same careful thought that went into engineering the vehicle itself. Wrapping is the most efficient and lowest cost finishing approach.
Of course, once purchased, we are free to do as we wish with our vehicle.
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Thanks for the concise comment on this.
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So, saying you are reservation number 9,000. If you divide 9,000 by 40 per day you get 225 Aptera/days untill you get one. Then divide 225 Aptera/days by 20 working days a month, no overtime, and you get 11.25 months untill your reservation is completed. Of course that’s after testing and everything else and when full production starts. now a second production facility gets that to 5 5/8 months.
So many months yet to save $ towards vehicle purchase.
How’s my math? I flunked every math course I ever took. Just saying.
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At one point months ago I remember an Aptera person saying rampup to full production volume would take months. I also heard that they hope to deliver 5000 in 2022. Hopefully they’ll be up to their full rate of 40 per day by the end of 2022, but it could take the full year to reach that.
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All are Wrapped? Stands to Reason, considering the Pic of an APTERA Employee (I assume) Holding One Panel over Her Head on the (Factory?) Floor. Then, My Wishlist would be that I get Mine with NO Wrap, and the Files to Print My Own. No Need to Have Multiple Layers of Wrap on the Vehicle, making it Heavier, making Heat Rejection Slower/Less Efficacious.
Note to Anybody Listening at the Factory: I will Take Any Color, Wrapped, or UNwrapped Version, if it gets to me sooner (Option Selections Must Be what I picked However).
This is Me, Wishing Very Hard! <GRIN>
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Hopefully with a solar hood (honestly the car looks weird without) the degradation might be ok. Wrap quality keeps improving and if it doesn’t get as overhead direct of sun and has soft curves the stress on the material should be less than “normal” cars. Id love to know why the boat approach of clear over poly color isn’t the plan. Either way it’s got to have a good reason even if we don’t understand it and it’s far from a blocker.
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Oh by the way I’ll initially take a crashed one. I’ll pay shipping cost. Just so I can set in it and dream.
Must have intact seat.
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I would love a progress update from Aptera …. but I am sure they are all busy with Beta builds and product development and the new factory etc etc.
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Agreed. It is time for an official update from Aptera management. They should have some plans firmed up as they will need to provide the SEC a report for the year with plans for the next year.
Delaying reporting provides fuel for negative speculation and weakening of trust.
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I heard a few days ago that beta bodies were bing glue welded together in the Carlbad beta factory location. 3D scanning and other quality control of incoming parts is ongoing. They were still waiting for beta parts to arrive from vendors.
Heard they will announce some new vendor partnerships in a few days or weeks.
Factory location is currently being built up for Aptera assembly while old tenant stuff being cleared out.
Over 15,000 reservations now. ????
You probably heard that the current round of funding is closing at year end.
First deliveries have been pushed to the 2nd half of 2022. ????
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I’d be more concerned that the continued delays will cause more and more preorder holders to cancel their orders and torpedo the company before it gets fully off the ground.
I’m sticking to my plan, save all the OT this year bonuses and perks and paying cash for the aptera if and when it ever.
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A lot of vigorous discussion on this thread!????
Many, perhaps most, on the forum and prospective buyers would prefer an alternative to wrap. We have trusted the Aptera engineers to “Stay true” to the mantra of efficiency. They have produced the most efficient general transportation vehicle in the world which we are eagerly waiting to get our hands on. To this point they have repeatedly indicated in public and in private to ambassadors that the retail production vehicles assembled in San Diego will be delivered with wraps. I trust that they have applied the same level of diligent engineering combined with attention to efficient production management of Sandy Munro’s lean manufacturing process to implement delivery within CA environmental constraints.
There is a lot of testing yet to be done. Perhaps changes to vehicle finishing may result. But until such time as that happens and is announced, we need to accept the solution the engineers feel is most efficient from the time and cost perspective
Perhaps future iterations of the Aptera manufactured outside of CA may have different finishes. I for one am not willing to wait.
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Some of the recent videos have info indicating that a lot of things have some issues to resolved. There was one statement that the first delivered Aptera will come before crash testing even begins?
They have indicated that they want to make the first delivery this year, in the spring that was going to be a production unit, in mid summer it was going to be a Delta after crash testing had been done, Now?
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Sounds like it. I did also hear that crash test will be done in Q1 so my guess is that the first delivery will have to be in Q1 at the earliest.
Frankly I was a little down that the gamma release did not come with a release of test data. Showing interior and exterior designs are nice but showing the prototype can achieve the expected technical spec (efficiency, solar output, charging speed, zero to sixty, etc) will be reassuring. I am hoping they are test-driving the gamma and collect these information, otherwise, gamma is just a design mule.
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After watching several other EV startups I’d honestly be worried if it didn’t slip.
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I now doubt they will even make the absolute basic delivery of ONE vehicle being SOLD and DELIVERED to ONE person (almost definitely an in-house employee) by their 11:59 P.M. on December 31, 2022 Pacific Standard Time promise.
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Delivery by end of year would be an amazing accomplishment but it would be hand built, I heard stated that every aptera will be from a production line and not hand built so feels a little disingenuous. for marketing and funding reasons they should deliver a car this year even if it’s technically a delta. I feel real deliveries won’t happen till the summer of 2023.
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I tend to agree with you, Riley. Let’s face it. These are extraordinary times for manufacturing ANYTHING given supply chain issues, inflation, etc. While I’d dearly love to see Aptera meet its goal of getting a production Aptera into the hands of customers before year end, I can live with Summer 2023 delivery.
BTW, I just celebrated the first anniversary of the date I put in my Aptera reservation. I think my place in the queue is around the 10K order mark.
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There has been NO promise, only goals.
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Well I promise you they can only miss so many goals till they run out of cash.
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I promise you I’ll buy this car when it’s made. Let them have their goals. I’m already planning on buying 2 Aptera’s eventually. I was hoping my second Aptera would be something with 3 to 4 seats. But I could also live with two, 2 seaters.
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“Time keeps on slipping into the future!” I know that the Aptera folks are keenly aware of the drumbeat of customers yet to be, waiting in line for the dream machine. They are focused on getting this assembly line going, but maybe even as difficult as production, it is gathering the needed dollars in a market that is growing cold towards raising capital. Money almost has to come first, as delays in production will be impacted by not enough money to pay for parts, and workers to put them together. Maybe instead of thinking when we will get this magnificent Aptera, we should be out beating the bushes of your wealthiest of friends to get them to invest. I am getting older awaiting my Aptera, at 73 soon to be 74 how much longer do I have to wait? I know one thing, they need the $$$$ to get to the next level of producing them. As the order book get fatter, the investor types see the potential, and it will happen. Buying stock in a new company, before it has revenue, is not for everyone. The risks are still big, but when I look at the passion on this community bulletin board, I think, “oh yeah, the money will follow!” Talk to your friends who drive fancy cars, and those who believe that climate change is real, show them this concept, and ask if they might wish to get involved with a purchase of the shares.
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Here, here, Christopher. Cash is king.
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Yeah… certainly not the best indicators of making it to production. I think the odds are still against it, which is why I’m buying a new Bolt EV in the new year as a hedge. If, on the off chance Aptera survives and makes it to production, then I shouldn’t have too much trouble selling the Bolt.
