Manufacturing plans

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Manufacturing plans

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Manufacturing plans

  • Manufacturing plans

     John Malcom updated 6 months ago 26 Members · 55 Posts
  • David Smith

    Member
    August 10, 2021 at 10:44 am

    I would love to learn more about what’s going on with the change of manufacturing facilities, why the change is happening, and what this means for overall delivery schedules. If there’s a new article/release out there that explains, please leave a link for me to follow.

    Thanks,

    David

  • John Malcom

    Member
    August 10, 2021 at 4:13 pm

    there is no “Change” in manufacturing facilities. Aptera is “Looking” for a manufacturing facility. The facility they are currently in is their development facility where they are advancing their prototypes. It is a development facility

    • David Smith

      Member
      August 10, 2021 at 4:28 pm

      My mistake.

      Is there any company-generated information on timelines for beta prototypes and start of production?

  • Peter Pantoliano

    Member
    August 10, 2021 at 5:07 pm

    can anyone out there tell me when cars will start to be delivered ?

    its like pulling teeth to get any sort of idea on projected delivery dates …….

    • John Malcom

      Member
      August 10, 2021 at 6:48 pm

      The first production vehicle is scheduled to be delivered at the end of this calendar year with deliveries to reservation holders starting in 2022. You can look at the SEC filings on the site for the schedule furnished to the SEC. I would imagine that the reemergence of the COVID Delta Variant may impact the Aptera schedule as it will everything else

      • Dave Copps

        Member
        December 26, 2021 at 11:39 pm

        The December update now says deliveries will start in “late” 2022. Dang! I wanna sell my ICE car while the prices are high.

  • Pistonboy Delux

    Member
    August 11, 2021 at 1:57 am

    In the 2021 Annual Report, it says on page 19:

    • Deliver a vehicle to a customer by the end of the year.

    • Then build out our facilities and ramp up production accordingly in 2022.

    It is interesting they say “a customer”.

    This report can be accessed from their website.

    If I remember correctly, they found their development facility in a location which had ample room they could expand into for manufacturing. Apparently they decided to not use the potential manufacturing space, and instead look elsewhere.

    • Gabriel Kemeny

      Member
      August 11, 2021 at 4:21 am

      If you look at the location of their current office/development facility, there’s no way that could be a manufacturing location – way too small. Even at the low end of 10K vehicles per year produced, it would mean just the parking lot outside to hold the vehicles to be shipped needs to probably accommodate at least 100 vehicles (less than a week of production).

  • Pistonboy Delux

    Member
    August 13, 2021 at 3:15 am

    In the following video with Sandy Munro, Chris and Steve talk about their manufacturing and development building plans.

    It is at time 6:00.

    https://youtu.be/4DhzkUnIh58?t=360

    • Randy J

      Member
      October 24, 2021 at 10:58 am

      I’m an investor and we all know Sandy with Munro & Associates will be a major influence on production. I believe Sandy is also an investor. Parts I and II…. I watched part II first – these guys are good. So glad to have them working for us.

  • Steven G. Bueche

    Member
    August 13, 2021 at 2:42 pm

    So by this time (8/13/21) the first stage of the manufacturing facility could be set up already? Wouldn’t it be cool if a few shots of that set up could be shown. ????

    • John Malcom

      Member
      October 24, 2021 at 11:57 am

      Doubt that any of the setup is done even at this point. Beta build is not complete and no major testing started. The results of both could affect manufacturing planning. I would imagine next level (Detailed) planning based on Sandy Munro’s process is ongoing now that the facility layout is known and establishing the supply chain is the priority. 10/24/2021

  • John Trotter

    Member
    October 24, 2021 at 12:30 pm

    As much as I would also like to see signs of manufacturing progress, with the hand assembly process we’ve heard about, I’m not sure how one would judge much before cars are actually moving through. (gamma’s?) No giga (or even mini) presses, stampers, fancy robots, paint dips, etc. Patience, I guess, (although I have often felt patience was overrated.)

    • John Malcom

      Member
      October 24, 2021 at 7:27 pm

      A really good point. The traditional trappings of production set up progress will be missing for Aptera. I am on the fence on patience at this point.

  • GLENN ZAJIC

    Member
    October 25, 2021 at 12:00 pm

    I am so impatient I thought of applying to be the crash test dummy. I would have to wear those little target stickers on my head!????????

    • Carl Knapp Knapp

      Member
      October 25, 2021 at 12:05 pm

      I bought my Genesis GV80 three weeks before Tiger Woods became my crash test dummy.????????????

  • Randy J

    Member
    October 25, 2021 at 4:46 pm

    Our wait may be longer than originally thought

    Intel, AMD, and NVIDIA agree: The chip shortage isn’t ending anytime soon

    October 25, 2021

    The ongoing chip shortage is causing low stock and high prices for everything from computers to Cameros. And unfortunately, it isn’t going away anytime soon. Speaking to shareholders to announce Intel’s third-quarter financial earnings, Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger said that he doesn’t expect the shortage to end until 2023 — at the earliest.

    “We’re in the worst of it now, every quarter next year we’ll get incrementally better, but they’re not going to have supply-demand balance until 2023,” Gelsinger told CNBC. Intel recently said that the chip shortages are dragging down laptop sales, and warned that it might be hard to find juicy PC deals this holiday season.

    The other titans of the chip trade agree, to one degree or another. In a similar earnings call in August, Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang told investors that he expects supply chain issues to continue for “the vast majority” of 2022. Nvidia’s graphics cards have been in shockingly short supply for almost two years now, sending secondary market prices skyrocketing as scalpers, cryptocurrency miners, and the occasional PC gamer fight to get what few GPUs are available on the retail market.

    Intel and Nvidia’s primary competition in the PC world concurs, though they’re slightly more optimistic. Speaking at the Code Conference in September, AMD CEO Lisa Su predicted that the chip shortage will become “less severe” in the second half of 2022, after being “tight” in the first half.

    It doesn’t end there. Leaders at Qualcomm, ARM, Samsung, and Apple all agree that the chip shortage will continue well into 2022, with different levels of pessimism for longer predictions. Industrial powers are trying to boost supply with expanded manufacturing while legislators attempt to help them out, with varying degrees of success. But the consensus seems to be that next year will continue to see high prices and limited stock for almost everything that has a chip inside of it.

    • GLENN ZAJIC

      Member
      October 25, 2021 at 5:22 pm

      While that is not good news, it is not new news. This should give them (Aptera) plenty of time to get production in good order. I just hope the chip supplier(s) gets their order to them as the date they promised. I also hope Aptera placed a blanket order to hold a place in line over the next few years as they ramp up. I know it is hard to do, but I think a necessary step.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      October 25, 2021 at 5:56 pm

      The chips that nvidia and intel make have nothing to do with the impact on automotive; the SOCs and other controllers in cars are far simpler. Low cost arm chips for the infotainment and other standard chips for cars haven’t been in great supply but haven’t been as extreme as GPU shortages. A modern design will allow some flexibility and the bulk of production ramp will probably not be until ~summer. As a result I doubt this will be much of a problem for Aptera as long as they have the foresight to get their orders in soon.

    • Pistonboy Delux

      Member
      October 25, 2021 at 6:48 pm

      I agree. The chips used in vehicles are far simpler than those used in computers. I doubt Aptera is purchasing chips and mounting them on printed circuit boards. At least, I hope they are not designing custom circuits. These would be very difficult to replace if Aptera goes out of business. It is best if common existing subsystems from auto suppliers are used because they would be easier to replace.

      Excuse the avatar name change. I got tired of constantly changing my “nickname” from my real name to “Pistonboy”, so I changed my first name to Pistonboy and threw in Delux for the last name. For those who do not like it, its “Mr. Delux” to you!

      • jay huiting

        Member
        October 26, 2021 at 7:04 am

        That is really the one big thing I have been concerned about. Finding a way to continue with the vehicle in the event the company doesn’t make it. I know it is negative thinking and I expect only the best for Aptera for many decades to come, but I have some experience with unsupported and expensive tech.

        I would appreciate any advice on what to keep an eye out for.

        • Joshua Rosen

          Member
          October 26, 2021 at 7:36 am

          All you can do is look at the health of the company at the time of your purchase and make a guess as to whether they will survive for the next couple of years. I bought my Model 3 in mid 2019, at the time I figured that they had enough value that if they went bankrupt someone would buy them but I wasn’t confident that they wouldn’t go bankrupt. Little did anyone know that in two years Tesla would be worth a TRILLION freaking dollars and that if I had bought their stock instead of the car I’d be looking a small fortune, but hey, 20/20 hindsight.

          Aptera will be riskier than Tesla in that it’s less likely that someone will sweep in and buy them out of bankruptcy. The first time around they were bought by a Chinese company that did absolutely nothing with them.

          My criteria for pulling the trigger will be if I consider them likely to survive for at least a year after I purchase it. This is money that I can afford to lose and that’s what will happen if they go under, If they aren’t around I don’t see how it will be possible to repair the car if anything important breaks. If you can’t afford to kiss off your investment you should wait a few years to see if they are going to survive before you buy one.

      • Pistonboy Delux

        Member
        October 26, 2021 at 10:03 pm

        The larger a company is when it goes out of business, the greater the chance someone will buy it up and continue to make parts available. But Aptera is a small company with a small output. That scenario does not look good. I will probably baby mine and only drive it on country roads.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    December 13, 2021 at 12:53 pm

    They should look at Texas , lower corporate tax rate , more business friendly , this could potentially lower the cost of the vehicle by a good percentage to make up for the buffoonery inflation of 6.8% and rising

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      December 13, 2021 at 2:15 pm

      Due to the low amount of machines and footprint they don’t have a lot of benefits in centralization. If they can get a 80-200k sq ft space they can setup a factory, distribution and repair center in one. Ideally they can add new ones over time all over the place.

      My big concern is how efficiently they can handle the wrapping of cars. Wrapping a car in vinyl is technical high skill work which will make it really hard to be consistent in the result. Ideally a simpler solution (ie spray on wrap, traditional paint or clearcoat over natural material color etc) will need to be found because getting a small army of good wrappers will be really hard. Unfortunately traditional paint is super expensive to scale.

      It takes 2-3 days typically to wrap a car. Even if we assume the smooth Aptera curves and repeatedly doing the same vehicle takes this down to 8 hours of work this is a huge factor in scaling. The 10,000 cars per year goal for the initial facility (~30 vehicles per day including weekends) will require a team of about 45 skilled wrappers – this is a lot.

      • BRUCE MENGLER

        Member
        December 13, 2021 at 2:31 pm

        Is the wrap done by a single person per car? Or by a team of how many?
        How many cars per day or days per car can a team wrap an Aptera?

        With the production goal of 40 cars per day at peak volume, how many folks will be needed to wrap 40 cars per day?

        Just curious!

        • Dave Copps

          Member
          December 26, 2021 at 11:42 pm

          Wrapping an Altera will be VERY difficult. I’ve wrapped cars. The curvier the harder the wrap!

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        December 13, 2021 at 2:33 pm

        Is there any reason to wrap it at all? It’s a composite body, it won’t need anything to keep it from rusting. Can’t they just put a pigment in the plastic to get different colors?

        • Curtis Cibinel

          Member
          December 13, 2021 at 4:55 pm

          Perhaps the natural pigments cant make the colors clean enough or they fade/yellow; No idea, but they have been clear that the car is a wrap which is unfortunate because wraps degrade with sun exposure and are ~$1500 to redo every 5-7 years. I’ll try to remember to ask that at a future ambassador meeting.

          One guy will typically wrap a normal car in 2-3 days of work from what I’ve read. I suspect a team could do it but the total man hours would likely be the same or worse. This is an assumption based on the fact that wrap shops generally have one guy do a job.

          As Riley identified in another thread spray on wraps are also an option and might reduce the skill vs traditional wrapping but then the question because why not paint traditionally.

          • John Trotter

            Member
            December 13, 2021 at 6:17 pm

            Curtis. Have you any idea what boat builders with Aptera-like production rates do for color? I always thought they used pigments in the gel and that certainly is sun-resistant. They whole wraps thing seems expensive, slow, and less durable. (Even though I did wrap my MYP because Tesla paint had a poor reputation at the time. Much more than $1500, btw.) Wraps for trim and fancy stuff, perhaps.

          • Vern Koczur

            Member
            December 18, 2021 at 10:19 pm

            what would be the turn around time on a wrap that is heat/vacuum formed before being applied?

        • George Hughes

          Member
          December 13, 2021 at 9:05 pm

          You have to be right. The colors are in the pigment. That is why there are ONLY three standard factory finishes.

          The wraps are there as an option and given the pattern is digital, users will be able to do what ever custom, including commercial, design and/or color scheme they wish.

          I suspect that as the brand matures, they’ll come up with custom colored skins for special anniversary models and probably contract-out the skin to a third-party sub.

          • Curtis Cibinel

            Member
            December 13, 2021 at 10:51 pm

            I hope your right but I’m fairly sure they stated they were all wraps. As an investor I see this as my biggest concern with production.

            • Patrick Liebknecht

              Member
              December 16, 2021 at 12:40 pm

              All the cars will be wrapped , black white silver they are all wraps

              I can only guess that because the republic of California has such horrid epa laws that painting the cars would be far too costly with the proper booths and equipment to meet the standards.

              Plus they aren’t Fiberglas with a gelcoat that is tinted , so they can’t impregnate the body with color

              So wrap was the easiest solution

            • Paul Kirchner

              Member
              December 16, 2021 at 12:44 pm

              California has the best EPA laws. And as always, the rest of the country will at some point, adopt them as well.

  • Henry Kitt

    Member
    December 13, 2021 at 7:04 pm

    If Aptera can solve the whole wrap issue that’d be great. I know that they will be pigmenting the composite in the 3 color options but that they’re intending to use wrap as well. Would prefer mine to need as little maintenance as possible… I’d be ok for them to just clear coat the composite to bring out and protect the shine of the pigment. That would be the quickest and probably cheapest route for Aptera to take.

    • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

      Member
      December 14, 2021 at 9:32 am

      Henry, citation please, I don’t recall anything about tinting the composite to the three base colors, and pictures of Sol in transit from Reno showed it with a basic black color.

      • Henry Kitt

        Member
        December 14, 2021 at 12:26 pm

        Back in June I asked about this and someone from Aptera responded:

        “The base of our Alpha vehicles has been black to start. However, we anticipate that the colors of the production versions of Noir, Luna and Sol will be Black, Silver, and White at their base, without a wrap.”

        They also confirmed that this is the Sol without the wrap, which appears to already have a gloss finish, so I may just have this clear coated, either by them or after delivery.

        • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

          Member
          December 14, 2021 at 12:41 pm

          Henry, Excellent, Thanks.

          • Lou Verner

            Member
            December 14, 2021 at 2:51 pm

            Would love it if Aptera allowed us to choose to wrap or not, especially if they’re planning on pigmenting the composite to the three base colors, with perhaps adding protective clear-coat as Henry suggested. If wrapping as expensive, labor intensive as others have indicated, maybe choosing not to wrap would be available as discounted option!

            • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

              Member
              December 14, 2021 at 3:11 pm

              Lou, as I understood it, (Citation not handy) The permits needed for and eco impact of painting were greater than for wrapping.

            • Lou Verner

              Member
              December 14, 2021 at 3:17 pm

              Oz Man, if clear-coating same as painting, then I’d be happy to take my Sol with just pigmented composite. Could always have it clear-coated elsewhere as long as that didn’t have negative impact on composite.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    December 14, 2021 at 9:32 pm

    Per the following discussion on fb someone claimed to have confirmation from Aptera that all versions (Sol, noir, and Luna) are wrapped. John also stated that and I doubt he did so without confirmation. https://www.facebook.com/groups/apterafans/?ref=share

    • John Malcom

      Member
      December 15, 2021 at 11:51 am

      I can confirm that all production Aptere sold to retail buyers will be wrapped either with one of three standard colors or custom wrapped at additional charge. The same careful thought that went into engineering the vehicle itself. Wrapping is the most efficient and lowest cost finishing approach.

      Of course, once purchased, we are free to do as we wish with our vehicle.

      • Llewellyn Evans

        Member
        December 15, 2021 at 5:59 pm

        Thanks for the concise comment on this.

  • G Johns

    Member
    December 15, 2021 at 8:21 am

    So, saying you are reservation number 9,000. If you divide 9,000 by 40 per day you get 225 Aptera/days untill you get one. Then divide 225 Aptera/days by 20 working days a month, no overtime, and you get 11.25 months untill your reservation is completed. Of course that’s after testing and everything else and when full production starts. now a second production facility gets that to 5 5/8 months.

    So many months yet to save $ towards vehicle purchase.

    How’s my math? I flunked every math course I ever took. Just saying.

    • Harry Parker

      Moderator
      December 15, 2021 at 9:27 am

      At one point months ago I remember an Aptera person saying rampup to full production volume would take months. I also heard that they hope to deliver 5000 in 2022. Hopefully they’ll be up to their full rate of 40 per day by the end of 2022, but it could take the full year to reach that.

  • Guy SKEER

    Member
    December 15, 2021 at 4:29 pm

    All are Wrapped? Stands to Reason, considering the Pic of an APTERA Employee (I assume) Holding One Panel over Her Head on the (Factory?) Floor. Then, My Wishlist would be that I get Mine with NO Wrap, and the Files to Print My Own. No Need to Have Multiple Layers of Wrap on the Vehicle, making it Heavier, making Heat Rejection Slower/Less Efficacious.

    Note to Anybody Listening at the Factory: I will Take Any Color, Wrapped, or UNwrapped Version, if it gets to me sooner (Option Selections Must Be what I picked However).

    This is Me, Wishing Very Hard! <GRIN>

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      December 15, 2021 at 9:12 pm

      Hopefully with a solar hood (honestly the car looks weird without) the degradation might be ok. Wrap quality keeps improving and if it doesn’t get as overhead direct of sun and has soft curves the stress on the material should be less than “normal” cars. Id love to know why the boat approach of clear over poly color isn’t the plan. Either way it’s got to have a good reason even if we don’t understand it and it’s far from a blocker.

  • G Johns

    Member
    December 15, 2021 at 5:45 pm

    Oh by the way I’ll initially take a crashed one. I’ll pay shipping cost. Just so I can set in it and dream.

    Must have intact seat.

  • Llewellyn Evans

    Member
    December 15, 2021 at 8:35 pm

    I would love a progress update from Aptera …. but I am sure they are all busy with Beta builds and product development and the new factory etc etc.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      December 15, 2021 at 9:44 pm

      Agreed. It is time for an official update from Aptera management. They should have some plans firmed up as they will need to provide the SEC a report for the year with plans for the next year.

      Delaying reporting provides fuel for negative speculation and weakening of trust.

    • Harry Parker

      Moderator
      December 16, 2021 at 8:38 pm

      I heard a few days ago that beta bodies were bing glue welded together in the Carlbad beta factory location. 3D scanning and other quality control of incoming parts is ongoing. They were still waiting for beta parts to arrive from vendors.

      Heard they will announce some new vendor partnerships in a few days or weeks.

      Factory location is currently being built up for Aptera assembly while old tenant stuff being cleared out.

      Over 15,000 reservations now. ????

      You probably heard that the current round of funding is closing at year end.

      First deliveries have been pushed to the 2nd half of 2022. ????

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    December 26, 2021 at 1:41 pm

    I’d be more concerned that the continued delays will cause more and more preorder holders to cancel their orders and torpedo the company before it gets fully off the ground.

    I’m sticking to my plan, save all the OT this year bonuses and perks and paying cash for the aptera if and when it ever.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    December 27, 2021 at 9:31 am

    A lot of vigorous discussion on this thread!????

    Many, perhaps most, on the forum and prospective buyers would prefer an alternative to wrap. We have trusted the Aptera engineers to “Stay true” to the mantra of efficiency. They have produced the most efficient general transportation vehicle in the world which we are eagerly waiting to get our hands on. To this point they have repeatedly indicated in public and in private to ambassadors that the retail production vehicles assembled in San Diego will be delivered with wraps. I trust that they have applied the same level of diligent engineering combined with attention to efficient production management of Sandy Munro’s lean manufacturing process to implement delivery within CA environmental constraints.

    There is a lot of testing yet to be done. Perhaps changes to vehicle finishing may result. But until such time as that happens and is announced, we need to accept the solution the engineers feel is most efficient from the time and cost perspective

    Perhaps future iterations of the Aptera manufactured outside of CA may have different finishes. I for one am not willing to wait.

Viewing 1 - 18 of 18 replies

or to reply.

Original Post
0 of 0 posts June 2018
Now