Mercedes EQXX NewsPosted by randy-j on January 3, 2022 at 10:02 am
This is quite the impressive looking car. It’ll be a few years before we see it, if at all.
Perhaps Aptera can borrow a few ideas?
Reading the comments you can see there are some unbelievers and there are a lot of people who haven’t heard of Aptera yet.
- This discussion was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by bbelcamino.
ModeratorJanuary 3, 2022 at 10:46 am
Thanks for posting this, Randy. I think we need to be mindful of Aptera alternatives in the marketplace, present and future, even though I’m sure this MB product will be seriously expensive compared to Aptera. The salient points about this concept car are it’s bragging rights of 6 miles/kWh efficiency (Aptera is predicting 10 miles/kWh efficiency) and it’s aero CD of 0.17 (Aptera is 0.13). The Aptera aero figure may change now that we know we’re stuck with the added drag of driver’s side mirror due to outdated regulations here in the U.S. that require mirrors rather than cameras.
MemberJanuary 3, 2022 at 11:10 am
If memory serves the Fully Charged team is visiting the US in Sept.
San Diago area.
I hope Aptera will be on their must see list.
ModeratorJanuary 3, 2022 at 11:51 am
I know Aptera is hoping to have a presence at that event, Randy. Thanks for the reminder.
MemberJanuary 3, 2022 at 2:08 pm
I like the vegan interior. Makes me hungry just thinking about it…..
MemberAugust 31, 2022 at 5:36 pm
Haha hilarious 😉
MemberJanuary 3, 2022 at 6:30 pm
2 seater makes more sense long term, assuming effiency is so good that 2nd 2 seaters initial cost is nothing lon term factoring in running costs given most the time more than 1 or 2 seats and only little storage space is ever used, especially when removable roof storage is a thing(maybe even thermally insulated to some extent) . one 2 seater can follow the other with driver in it, emulating a 4 seater for less common times when such is used. it will make even more sense in a future where ride sharing increases, population and services more concentrated near each other, amazon delivery service type things increase, family unit becomes less common so people live in short term relationships more often than it used to be, so less desire to travel together. this stuff is already happening.
even as a 4 seater, they clearly are still surrendering to shortsighted stuff like that massive screen garbage. wonder if they considered e ink displays, tinted HUDs etc. the rear row seats couldve been facing rearward, cutting off mass accommodating cabin airpsace accordingly. this wouldbe for less weight, keeping most the weight low and in between wheel base and maybe a bit toward the rear for areodynamics more like a 2 seater car, less airpsace means more effceint heater/AirConditioning. trunkspace can be excused into being smaller b/c unused space becomes legspace, and most the time its not fully used, so less legspace is acceptable for some of the time assuming there even is rear passengers and full storage space use at same time. the rear line going upward after the slope goes down toward enf of car, is a active areo for downforce stability but it can be done as done in this mercedes, also put weight more on rear as shown with yellow line between wheel bases. wiring can be surfaces of wall instead of normal cylinder wire to connect beteeries stored where yellow lines are (see pic) while keeping driver low in car for areodynamics, weight and handling more speed around turns which helps increase electronics lifetime and imporve effiency and is for more driving fun. with freepiston no electric hybrid it might as well be rear wheel drive too. the windshield shoudlnt be too close to driver face in case something flies into windshield so it doesnt jumpscare driver as much, dont know what a good minimal amount of space would be.
both rows especially front row can make passenger and driver have enough room to rest elbow but fore arm and front end of legs pointing toward each other for more arrow shaped front end similar to ariel atom, no need for extra space to spread arms that much more this isnt s class.
headlights could be at forehead level so the headlights surface dont have to be so vertical, front can becomes more areodynamic if front end is crashed driver can still go home at dark with working headlights, also acts as off roading roof bar lights for those cars.
they focused lot on aesthetics yet they didnt talk about a modular texture platform they can profit off of even after car sells, as user wants to change aesthetics, can even be a different theme per seat, can switch parts between owners for sale through dealership etc.
lightyear one already beat this thing.
MemberAugust 31, 2022 at 5:39 pm
Excellent idea= higher headlights! My friend in New York has hit countless deer (overpopulation), which always destroys headlights. It’s a needless waste.
MemberJanuary 4, 2022 at 6:13 am
as front wheel drive(for regen braking), dont see why rear wheels should be so big, smaller rear wheels are less weight,rolling friction, road bump forces, give a old rolls royce look if rest of car portion follow the large mass at front less mass at rear theme, which if ending up with thinning long tail would work.
MemberJanuary 4, 2022 at 9:50 am
MemberJanuary 4, 2022 at 7:23 pm
why arnt rear wheels covered at least by transparent cover?\
for areodynamics. all steering maybe help with tire longevity maybe thats the excuse but never heard of that being said
ford probe v supposedly had around .13 drag coefficient and it had enough space to be 4 seater applying my concepts, although it was too low to ground for rough roads
MemberJanuary 4, 2022 at 6:34 am
I wonder if they were looking at Aptera when they designed this, the fact that they are going to put solar panels on this concept make me suspect that they have because solar panels add bupkis to this car. Solar panels on a 10 mile/KWh car in Southern California can provide a somewhat useful amount of range but at 6 miles/KWh in Germany they would be pretty useless.
I really hope that Mercedes will bring this car to market, it’s classically beautiful. Chances are tiny that anything like it will see the light of day, concepts never do, but they really should consider making this one a product.
MemberJanuary 4, 2022 at 9:37 am
the gamification encouraging efficient driving was vague, how would it look like? i guess itd show sea level changes of road so driver knows to build momentum on downhills(sometimes people cant tell when their on a slope b/c there isnt landscape reference to show visually that they are on a slope realtive to other slopes or flat surfaces) , maybe steering wheel position will be encouraged by HUD showing how to turn the car as a pathway arrows representing sides of the car. maybe g force meter to know the grip limit for car which is hard to sense for most people in tight suspension car, so u can carry speed without learning grip limits by small grip loss which will make most people fear limits. each of these can be turned off, ex. somone who knows how to maintain momentum around turns will only use sea level and maybe g force gauge.
every time car starts up itd remind driver to maintain momentum with minimum acceleration quickness and braking and steering and braking for brakepad and tire life and effiency.
MemberJanuary 4, 2022 at 10:08 am
The Volt had gamification for efficient driving, Tesla doesn’t. The display needs to show you the instantaneous energy usage, average energy usage, regen recuperation, and also a colored dial indicates your efficiency as green, yellow and red. It does train you to use a light foot and to be careful of your braking. Tesla does have an energy screen that will show you your history, average energy and instantaneous consumption but it’s not useful for realtime driving optimization because it’s a whole screen rather than just a small part of the display. I do want this information on the main display.
MemberJanuary 4, 2022 at 10:34 am
regen doesnt need to be shown, average effiencies dont tell exactly what part of driving behavior needs to be changed and dont account for different travel paths having different minimal energy requirements. brake teacher also not rly helpful b/c how to do it properly is very simple logic. my system is minimal, although i guess you can add things for entertainments sake, that can be turned off and its not very bright or large display compared to essential info like speed limit. maybe speed dial being a number in large font but a physical dial kinda like s2000 RPM gauge showing torque input/regen.
MemberJanuary 5, 2022 at 1:59 pm
The Spark EV, but not the Volt, is capable of displaying regen instantaneously in kw’s … i.e. on hard braking, my car displays 60 kw as the rate of regen. Going down a long hill on the freeway at 65, it will show 3-4 kw of regen for the minute or two it takes to start up the next where, if you’re ‘hypermiling’ you wipe mph off the speedometer while trying to keep kw usage under 25kw on the way up the next.
But I agree, the basic display needs to show on one concise screen, MPH, Range in miles, an in-out meter displaying regen in both +/- realms, an electronic trip odometer that calculates mi/kwh.
Here’s an old video from 2013 and considering there are fewer than 7500 Spark EV’s, there is a good chance you’ve not seen the dash display, which really is well thought out and ‘encourages’ efficiency. https://youtu.be/p6P6Uw2-D28?t=183
The chevy graphics are now ‘dated’ but they are informative and gives you what you need.
On the larger story of efficiency – the MB is supposed to get 6.0 miles/kwh … As a matter of fact, I’ve recorded trips in Spark EV that at the end of 80-90 miles, the mKW was as high as 6.5 … but that was in the summer on secondary roads when I knew I was going to have a long route through the hills and I took care to maximize regen. (Yes, you can regen uphill 🙂
There are times when efficiency wasn’t a concern that at the end of the day my mKW dipped below 3.0. Those are the unusually cold and wet days when I only had a relatively short trip (20-30 miles) and I knew I could crank up the heat to keep my tootsies nice and crispy. In my normal driving the Spark EV gets 4.5-5.2 mKW which would put it in the ballpark of the MB in that context.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by George Hughes.
MemberJanuary 5, 2022 at 5:01 am
Mercedes EQXX is a concept car and it won’t go into production. It is used to showcase and test the new technologies (drivetrain, screen, wheels, battery, solar cells etc.) that we will see in their existing and probably in their new models as well.
MemberJanuary 16, 2022 at 6:00 am
With conventional side mirrors…… Using less energy than their digital counterparts, says Gordon Wagener, head designer at Mercedes Benz….
MemberFebruary 4, 2022 at 8:11 am
given battery recycling not happenign mass scale + batery degradation especially in less moderate temp, user cost vs convience (lightweightedness, range anxiety), lifetime emissions, future potential for combustion fuel: (on youtube for ex) ingocar freepiston, linear electric combustion freepiston generator, obrist or nissan E power as in note nismo. battery can be for everyday use (or just minimal battery) plus these such things so no range anxiety and effeincy/weight/battery recycling cost penalty of big battery car.
MemberFebruary 15, 2022 at 8:24 pm
given luxry sport car is mostly driven w/out passenger at least for sportier driving, driver interface and seat can be screwed to middle of car similar to gma t50 or there can be sliding mechanism to slide the stuff to middle and folding down passenger seat. folding mechanism similar to minivan seats, so its done fairly quickly and possibly during a stop light in traffic.
this centralizing drivers sense of balance organ (around the ear) makes its easier to place car in right position on road and gives a more natural connected sense of movement, so car feels like extenstion of driver conciousnes more. this isncludes making center of car rotation when turning, at this location. i suppose it’ll also trigger rerembrace of driving moments more b/c its more similar to moving around by walking.
MemberFebruary 16, 2022 at 5:01 am
No company has intellectual ownership of the technology to design and build very efficient electric vehicles. It is just physics which has been around since creation. Until recently, no automaker, legacy or startup, had a business interest in developing or exploiting efficiency based on first principles. The success of Tesla energised this recent interest in an attempt to catch up.
Note in this presentation, that many different departments of Daimler participated in the development. Each of those departments brought with them their legacy perspective (Baggage) and a motivation to be recognized as a major contributor to the vehicle. Therefore this car is a compromise vehicle which is its Achilles heel.
Contrast that with Aptera. Clean sheet. One team very focused on a common goal, the MOST efficient transportation in the world. No conflicting hidden agendas. This approach will win every time.
Take a moment to reflect on what Aptera has done with a small team of young engineers and a shoestring budget. The Aptera production vehicle will beat the Daimler experimental vehicle in every measure of efficiency except number of passengers. And Aptera will deliver that performance at a price point that will make Aptera available to everyone who wants to contribute significantly to the welfare of the planet and save a lot of money.
MemberFebruary 16, 2022 at 5:17 am
This car will never see the light of day. How many super cool looking Mercedes concepts have we seen only to have them fade into memory? The price would be astronomical as well. I also have doubts about the claims of efficiency. Just looking at the front end gives me the feeling of an area pushing loads of air from the center point downward. The rear slant seems a drag maker as well. Unless the rear makes a roll of air like the back of a truck window to help the flow I’m calling BS.
You can make all the claims you want but until it hits the road or track it’s just marketing jargon.
I do like the looks from the windscreen back though.
MemberFebruary 27, 2022 at 7:57 pm
phev does not have to have direct mechanical connection by gears shafts etc,, in the freepiston concept the power is transmistted by air pressure and/or electric motor power, most the regenerative braking probably will be electric although compressed air regen systems have worked for heavy trucks(but air tanks may need to take up more space beyond the spaces in side hollow carbon fiber sort of rollcage, which maybe too much. more air storage power, the better, b/c such wouldnt destory battery materials that arnt being recyled for same quality of re-use as is happenng with almost all EV batteries currently. there is no refilling the air.). until they fix battery recyling problem, maybe dont use any electric battery? supercapacitor lasts longer than popular lithium battery, it probably good enough of a balance.
autotrader on youtube did a video comparing volvos electric car vs its combustion of same chassis according to volvo.
a less radical currently existing version of this is nissan e power note nismo and the “obrist” generator is electric only and not as radical as freepiston but is already existing hardware, fitted to tesla whos battery is like apteras. E fuels suppedly almost perfect except too expesive, formula 1 and porsche said they plan to use it, and this freepiston like drivetrain would adapt if such solution is fixed in future. supposedly u can get combustion to only emit co2, capture it in air, recycle to fuel.
MemberMarch 9, 2022 at 8:29 am
heavy car also requires roads to be repaired more often costing more tax money and emissions, so case for small batteyr car range extender is further showing supremacy over big battery car. battery degradation also make battery replacement sooner, which may cut away at gas money savings.
the range extender could be a combination of nissan E power and nissans NC inline 4 in that stupid infinite “SUV”, so it runs optimal effeincy and can take different fuels as E fuels and existing alternatives to ethanol like enginnering explaineds video mentioned. thae tech is proven better than batteries but its very expesnive for now, only volswage group luxry cars liek porsche and formula 1 has mentioned plans to use them.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid.
what if we replaced seats with something more like mercedes gullwing doors for structral rigidity
or like the prius prime hatch becomes a door, eliminating rear row doors, kinda of like tesla model y 3rd row seats.why not have one door on drivers side, then other side is no door for structral strength effeincy. the barrier between drivers feet pedals and passengers is some thin barrier that is lifted up when door is closed. barrier is there to prevent sleeping passenger feet from getting in the way of driver and pedals.
about the freepiston hydrallic electric drivetrain: the hydrallic tank could replace a transmission or at least much of it and work as regenerative braking without degrading battery life. innas fot c0m slash fallacies. ingo car concept.
why not light assembly at driver forehead level ehind windhsield like where subarus eyesight self driving camera stuff is located <time aria-label=”Edited April 19, 2022 12:23 PM” datetime=”2022-04-19T16:23:56.275Z”>(edited)</time>
so the front end dosnt have to have rather vertical surfaced lights covers for proper lighting
for areodynamics and less panel gaps make it simpler
in a small crash front end, drver can go omw with working lights
the lack of vaericla surface could be made up for by a lens i guess <time aria-label=”Edited April 19, 2022 12:24 PM” datetime=”2022-04-19T16:24:48.736Z”>(edited)</time>
is aptera making its main headlight the single big light at front?
a launch control can be programmed into it to, but maybe not b/c that would require stronger thus heavier moving parts
it would work as a switch u hold down on, plugged into phone, so u hold it to take the virtual “clutch” out, then drop the clutch at after pressing down the pedal, for quicker torque aplication to move the car
MemberApril 29, 2022 at 7:29 am
why not have one door on drivers side, then other side is no door for structural strength efficiency (same anti car crash strength, less weight). barrier between driver and passenger is deleted, armrest can be had if flip out the armrest for each seat(some people too wide, would benefit from no armrest. minimize built in seat bolster so its easy for passenger to slide across the seats like sliding across bench seats at a park.
motor 1 has a article online on a aftermarket bolster boost whose tightness for different bodies can be modified. this is is much more effective than current one side fits all approach of bucket seat fender at sides of seat. it just needs more mass for less wide people. i suppose it can use air pressure to tighten things .
getting in and out will be even easier with my steering wheel design, where it is removed to allow easier getting in the car with a smaller space in the car <font face=”inherit”>smaller space for </font>light weighting<font face=”inherit”> etc </font>race cars have such steering wheel removal thing <font face=”inherit”>for same reason. with the lever steering wheel replacement, it could be part of the </font>folding<font face=”inherit”> armrest.</font>
MemberApril 29, 2022 at 7:39 am
the rear doors could be replaced by the hatch back trunk door. in a small length car, it would be more comfortable to use than a mazda rx8 door sort of setup while lowering weight per crash anti strength. even in a longer wheelbase car, the rear eats can be slided foward with a rope that can be kept in a net under seat. the seat can slide foward as the trunk hatch door opens to make it easier to sit into, then slide backward a little for legroom, and if user wants he can modfy seat position like normal car afterward. however the seat position was left in would affect the mechanical auto sliding with the hatch opening within limits of seat sliding rail.
MemberMay 21, 2022 at 11:44 am
if the seats are like bench seats, one door per row of seating would be easier to make and more structrally strong per amount of mass required. hatch trunk door can replace door for rear seats if the seats slide foward if pulled by rope to make it easier to sit into it. the sides of the door can have canals for water to slide away from getting onto person when door opens by mechanical connection to door, with a arm that slides in when door closed, and as door opens, the arm slides out of another arm on rails, the end of the arm is.
what if door was more like dallara stradale doors? sure aptera probably needs more root strength but can make the door not so tall
MemberMay 21, 2022 at 12:24 pm
electric bike called sunra miku super lets user to take out batteries. similar thing to allow adding/renting/removing rear wheel drive, more or less batteries etc.
MemberMay 26, 2022 at 7:41 pm
volkswagen XL 1 800cc and yet the engine drivetrain was big i thought of the 2nd seat beinf facing rear ward with engine in between driver and passenger and it might as well be a 4 seater at this point, otherwise aptera setup wouldve been presumably more effceint it seems it would get better mpge than tesla 3 if tesla was a 2 seater 4 wheeler it was rear wheel drive though… regernative braking would work better as front wheel drive. maybe the battery was too small to do much braking anyway . production of batteyr cars have more emissions than production of cimbustion car. iits also without as much as a problem with recyling the battery bc theres less battery, although still emissions on the road. battery could be removable, so it car drive without it while waiting on a replacement batteyr set through the mail the combustion would adapt to E fuels future if that happens too with vairable displacement like nissan
what if get rid of spinning parts like 2 combustion chamber on ends of one piston shaft, it goes back and forth by one explosion on one side, then another on other side. piston where combustion is not happening, piston pushes air into compressed air container. container leaks air into turbine in wheel, pushing the wheel. wheels outer edge is pushed first for more wheel torque to get heavy car moving, then the inner turbine is pushes for faster spinning wheel per amount of energy when car isnt so heavy to move in direction its laready being moved toward.
for braking, wheel compresses air into air container. electric motor output and regenerative braking power assists this system, but recylable non rare earth materials used. so electric battery use minimized, in exchange for storing energy in compressed air. compressed air tubes may also be part of the compressed air container. so, it can be not a effeincy problem to have more tube mass… which aso means heavy parts can be middle of car, as explained in 4 seater midengine concept here
MemberAugust 18, 2022 at 12:26 pm
I’d need to take out a mortgage on that car. $102,000+ is extremely pricey. That luxury is for the rich.
MemberAugust 31, 2022 at 5:47 pm
Or simply start saving up for some years before you buy it. Loans are silly.