New Tax Credit Bill

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions New Tax Credit Bill

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions New Tax Credit Bill

  • New Tax Credit Bill

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    September 13, 2021 at 7:24 am

    Please write your Congressperson and let them know that you oppose the new bill that will give $12,500 credits to the big 3 and probably nothing for Aptera because it has only three wheels. Should the government be subsidizing F150 Lightnings that will probably get 2 miles/KWh at the expense of a Aptera that gets 10 miles/KWh. The credits are simply not necessary anymore, the entry level price of the Aptera is only $26K and they are doing it through innovation not by government subsidies. This bill encourages watt guzzlers at the expense of innovative cars from startups. I don’t think there should be any subsidy at this point, it’s not necessary at this point. The top three selling EVs are the Model Y, Model 3 and Bolt, none of which get a tax credit under the current law.

    Even if they retain a subsidy it should be much smaller, $12,500 is obscene.

  • Steve Lee

    Member
    September 13, 2021 at 8:07 am

    I think they should tie the credits to efficiency because the goal is to reduce energy consumption.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      September 13, 2021 at 8:25 am

      The Biden administration has zero interest in the environment, this bill is about the UAW and the UAW alone. If this was about the environment the credit would be tied to miles/KWh and if it was rational it would be capped at a much lower level. $12,500 is obscene. I’d rather there be no subsidy at all, let the market sort things out. When the original bill was passed the tax credit made sense, batteries cost $1000/KWh at the time. It was a way of jump starting the technology so that the costs could come down. They are down enough at this point where EVs are competitive on their own. Aptera plans to start at $26K, that’s really cheap for any car. The average new car in the US is over $40K. Even GM was able to price the Bolt in the very low 30s, if LG hadn’t screwed them that would have been a very affordable car.

  • Joey Lao

    Member
    September 13, 2021 at 8:48 am

    I don’t understand why it’s limited to 4 wheel vehicles. What’s the rational behind that?

  • Bob Kirchner

    Member
    September 13, 2021 at 9:09 am

    How about writing to your Congressperson and asking that the credit be extended to three wheeled vehicles?

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      September 13, 2021 at 10:26 am

      I wrote mine suggesting no credit at all. Let the market decide. The price of the vehicle should reflect the manufacturing cost and it’s desirability, the government shouldn’t be picking and choosing because it will always make the wrong choice. In the case of this bill you can see it’s driven by Democratic politics not by national interest. They’ve put not just a finger but their whole hand on the scale to favor the UAW. This allows the legacy automakers to get away with cobbling together inefficient EVs and have the government give them a subsidy that makes up for their sloppy designs.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      September 13, 2021 at 10:30 am

      What Bob said! This shouldn’t be about “either/or” – it should be about “both/and”.

      The issue isn’t about the Bill being “anti-Aptera” – because, in truth, there IS no Aptera – yet: The company is a start-up that’s still in the earliest stages of vehicle development. Larger, established auto makers have a greater likelihood of successfully producing under-$40K EVs: Look, for example, at how many under-$40K Model 3 vehicles Tesla has produced and sold as compared to, say, Chevy Bolts.

      As to the Bill pandering to the UAW, the rebate isn’t tied to Union-built vehicles – there’s an ADDITIONAL rebate if the EV is Union-made. Consider the number of workers who will lose their jobs as auto makers shift to EV production: Engines, transmissions and fuel systems require many part to be manufactured, assembled and installed while electric motors, batteries & battery packs and power electronics are mostly built by machines/robots. And there’s nothing saying that Aptera couldn’t choose to become a Union shop.

      The only reason the Bolt was/is “affordable” is because most of it is built in and shipped from LG in Korea: LG provides the motor, the battery, the drivetrain, the HVAC system and the electronics to control it all. The body and interior were designed by GM Korea (working with LG) and are now produced in the US. GM is large enough to take a loss on the Bolt to keep the price down: Compare it to other small EVs that are built and shipped to the US from Korea – the Kia Niro and Hyundai Kona – both of which are priced over $40K.

      Disparaging the current administration for not doing enough is disingenuous as they are, at least, doing something – unlike the previous administration which toiled to undo what had already been done, to “turn back the clock”, as it were. Could they do more? You betcha – but will Congress allow the Bill in its current form to become law? Prolly not – items like subsidies are used, historically, as bargaining points.

    • David Maddon

      Member
      October 29, 2021 at 12:25 am

      There’s a $7500 credit for three wheeled vehicles

  • John Tyler

    Member
    September 13, 2021 at 11:09 am

    Messages sent

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 13, 2021 at 1:44 pm

    I wonder if between Elio, Vanderhall, and Aptera there is any lobbying power to get rebates for three wheeled EVs added? Or are we pretty much just SOL?

    Personally I’d like to see vehicles taxed according to their emissions (Like Norway does).

    Tax the coal rolling duramax and put that money into better EV infrastructure. If someone wants to ruin our air they can pay accordingly.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    September 13, 2021 at 2:16 pm

    This is not a forum for political discourse for or against any administration nor is it a place for expressing personal political views. There is plenty of room on the plethora of popular social media for that kind of posting.

    I don’t want to know anybody’s personal political perspective or their communication with their representatives, nor will I share mine. Our Forum Guidelines provide that kind of counsel to us as well.

    Aptera has a professional lobbying group and a group of Ambassadors that will work in concert with them to formulate and execute a lobbying plan at the local, state, and national level. If that group wants members of the forum to help they will provide information on what consistent story they would like us to propagate and to whom.

    From the business perspective, and the success of Aptera Motors, there is certainly nothing wrong with encouraging actions that will lower a price point for EV vehicle purchases. Expands the market and increases volume of sales. Isn’t that what we really want??? more Apterae on the road for the environment and to lower our personal driving expense?? So lobbying for no incentive is counter productive for us, Aptera, and those that need financial help to become direct environmental contributors. I would like to see an Aptera in every household regardless of the family income level.

    But lets keep the discussions on this forum to talking about Aptera


    fixed the formatting typos ????

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      September 13, 2021 at 2:22 pm

      Well said – I just wish I could do something to help. I don’t know what to do besides contact my representatives which are all voting against the bill I’m sure… So nobody will listen to them anyway right?

      • John Malcom

        Member
        September 13, 2021 at 5:58 pm

        I think you are doing something, you are buying an Aptera. Who knows what works these days. I am pretty sure the Lobbying Team will figure the best thing to do and if we are needed they will call on us. Lobbying is more important/effective than constituent write ins. The write ins go to a junior staffer and the principle rarely sees the results

        • Lee Janes

          Member
          September 16, 2021 at 12:37 pm

          Well said John????

          • Jose Torre-Bueno

            Member
            September 16, 2021 at 12:52 pm

            Totaly agree w/ John. Aptera is lobbying to be included. The last thing we want is to kill the bill. I will say that writing to congress is helpful. It is true the congressbeing will never see your letter but they are counted up by staff and the totals are relevant to them.

        • David Maddon

          Member
          October 30, 2021 at 5:53 pm

          Not true as a community organizer I can tell you when a Congressperson receives hundreds of phone calls it make a difference and no the professional lobbyist have little experience calling in the troops.

    • David Maddon

      Member
      October 29, 2021 at 12:27 am

      You’re not the decider of what this place is for or not for this is not your forum, you’re allowed to participate in it like everybody else and not dictate the terms that’s a very narcissistic thing to do.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    September 17, 2021 at 7:12 am

    One more detail from this terrible bill. They do have a provision for three wheelers, it’s only $2500. However they are giving $4000 rebates to plugin hybrids as long as the battery is 10KWh or more. That means that a Toyota Prius Prime with a pathetic 25 miles of range will get a $4000 rebate, an Aptera with a 1000 miles of range will get only $2500.

    • David Maddon

      Member
      October 30, 2021 at 5:46 pm

      No current plug in hydrides qualify as it requires a 2.5 gallon max gas tank.

  • Raj Giandeep

    Member
    September 17, 2021 at 1:09 pm

    https://youtu.be/vlj-CRwpYgA?t=634

    This video mentions 2 & 3 wheel EVs is part of the proposed bill.
    $2500 up to 10% max

    • David Maddon

      Member
      October 30, 2021 at 5:54 pm

      The agreement now has 30% up to $7,500.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    September 21, 2021 at 7:12 am

    Please DON’T do what Joshua suggests. Certainly the bill isn’t perfect. But in the spirit of Aptera, we should be supporting anything that would increase the adoption of EVs in the US. Aptera lobbying supports the bill, and urges congress to add in three wheel vehicles with a substantial incentive.

    This all or nothing black or white is not the way we get things done in our system.

    The Aptera is amazing and with or without a tax incentive will sell, but even the small incentives applicable to Aptera will help our potential customers. Something is always better than nothing

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      September 21, 2021 at 8:07 am

      Protecting special interests does nothing to increase adoption of EVs, in the long term it hurts because rather than allowing the market to pick the winners and losers the government is and the market always does a better job.

      EVs are going to happen because they are a superior technology and in the next few years they will become cheaper than ICEVs because once battery costs drop below a certain threshold, LFPs might already be at that point, everything else in an EV is cheaper. An electric motor is two orders of magnitude simpler than an internal combustion engine and as a result they are already much cheaper. EVs don’t need a complex transmission, just a single reduction gear, that’s a big savings. They don’t need catalytic converters which are boxes filled with platinum, in my last ICE the replacement cost for the catalytic converters would have been $3500, that’s a big cost that you don’t have. AWD is trivial to implement in an EV, it’s complex in an ICEV which is why you only see it on expensive ICEVs. The cost of ownership is less because all of those things that an EV doesn’t have are things that can’t wear out because if they aren’t there then there is nothing to fail.

      LCDs didn’t need government help to replace CRTs, as soon as they became affordable they pushed CRTs out of the market. PCs didn’t need government help, the first ones were expensive but within a few years everyone had one. Cell phones were very expensive at first, within a few years everyone had one, the feature phones replaced the basic phones followed by the semi-smart phones like the Blackberry and the Palm which in turn were replaced by smart phones like iPhone and Android. Most of the population on earth has a smart phone now, all done without government subsidies.

      I’m not convinced that the current tax credit did much to create the US EV market. Tesla used up most of it’s credits on the Model S and X which both cost over $100K at the time, I doubt they would have sold one fewer S or X if the tax credit wasn’t there, people who can afford $100K for a car aren’t looking for deals. The Chevy Volt undoubtedly did benefit from the tax credit because the tax credit was enough to push it into an affordable price category. But even there they would have sold most of them without the credit, I bought one in 2016 and I appreciated the fact that the the combined state and Federal credit brought a 41K car down to 31K but the car I was comparing it to was the Audi A4 which cost $50K so even if I didn’t get the credit I would have bought it. Today the top selling EVs in the US are the Model 3, Y distantly followed by the Bolt, none of which are eligible for the credit. People are buying them on their own merits.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        September 21, 2021 at 8:36 am

        Joshua, would you please take your soap box to another forum more appropriate for expression of your obsessive personal opinion. This forum is not an editorial page for national policy discourse. You do not represent the majority nor will anything you post on an Aptera forum affect the outcome of any national legislative initiative. You have indicated you have written your state’s national representatives. Good that is the right thing to do. Now give it a rest especially if you can’t support Aptera’s position on the current initiative.

        • Joshua Rosen

          Member
          September 21, 2021 at 8:59 am

          This is an EV issue so it belongs in this forum. This directly effects Aptera’s chances for success. In this battle Congress has offered to pay for David’s pebble but is giving Goliath an assault rifle.

          • John Malcom

            Member
            September 21, 2021 at 9:12 am

            You have had your say frequently and at length. Time now to let this go. Find something you can say something positive about. If you constantly bash, you lose credibility as an objective observer.

            By the way, if I remember correctly, David slew Goliath. not a good analogy to make your point.

            • Joshua Rosen

              Member
              September 21, 2021 at 9:37 am

              Goliath didn’t have an assault rifle. Nobody gave Goliath an additional advantage over David which is why a little shepherd boy was able to defeat a giant because he introduced better technology, i.e. a sling. I’m all over this forum and I’m completely positive in most of my posts, this is the one area where we strongly disagree with each other. Aptera is already running this race while forced to wear cement shoes, they are at a $7500 disadvantage with respect to everyone except Tesla and GM. In this bill they are layering on more cement, the disadvantage jumps to $10,000. How can they overcome that? Not only do the legacy companies have their massive natural advantages, huge development budgets, lot’s of giant factories, thousands of dealers, none of which are available to any startup. But now Congress is handing them a giant price advantage. I just don’t see why you aren’t as concerned as I am about how this effects Aptera’s prospects. Tesla will survive it, they already have about 70% of the US EV market even though they are at a $7500 disadvantage, this bill makes it a little better for them, but it’s an existential threat to Aptera and any other startup that isn’t Tesla.

      • Peter Jorgensen

        Member
        September 21, 2021 at 9:29 am

        This is a good point. As an exercise in using my own power I will blatantly go against the government’s incentive/desire for me to “Go buy a union made hybrid please!” but supporting special interests does not benefit me and is expensive to pay for via inflation and taxes.

        I also have no interest supporting oil subsidies. Let the price of plastic go up to where it really should be – We have no need to spend $20 billion a year on oil subsidies.

        • John Malcom

          Member
          September 21, 2021 at 9:51 am

          Fortunately for us we are free to spend our discretionary income anyway we want. Teslas and Bolts are very popular and people that want them will buy them and be delighted with any incentives to do so. I bought my Model3 with no incentive.

          To be consistent with your statement “Blatantly go against the government’s incentive” you will not apply for a tax incentive for the Aptera should one be included in the final bill right?

    • Bernard Dubuc

      Member
      January 17, 2022 at 1:22 am

      I agree 100% with you John

      • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by  Bernard Dubuc.
  • John Malcom

    Member
    September 21, 2021 at 10:07 am

    One last point. Aptera management supports this bill. They have asked their ambassadors to write to their representatives and senators using a form letter to express support and to include three wheeled vehicles more broadly.

    For everyone on this forum that is inspired to write their representatives with opposition to the bill (Certainly their right) it negates one ambassadors influence.

    It is always my hope that the Aptera community can come together and collectively and enthusiastically support the direction the company wants to go

    • Bryce Wessel

      Member
      September 21, 2021 at 2:14 pm

      I believe that letting our representatives know we support subsidies for vehicles with no tailpipe emissions is the priority. I believe it is OK to let them know that as negotiations proceed, it would be better to focus on subsidizing results associated with this goal while keeping secondary objectives as separate incentives where possible. A simple credit of $25/mile of EPA range up to a limit based on the GVWR would accommodate everything from bikes to semi’s and allow negotiation room in setting the various limits. Add-on incentives up to 10% each could support consensus building initiatives on top of the base amount without completely overwhelming the primary intent.

      There is not a single EV form factor that works for everyone (bicycle, motorcycle, 3-wheeler, 2-seater, 4-seater, 8-seater, shuttle, cargo, towing, etc.) so federal incentives should focus on reducing the barrier to adoption for all form factors allowing consumers to make the choice based on individual utility rather than price models that heavily favor selective categories.

      I suppose I support any legislation lowering the barrier to EV adoption, but it would sure be nice to steer incentives towards policies that are less prescriptive to better reward efficiency innovation like we are seeing with Aptera.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    October 25, 2021 at 12:52 pm

    Look at this cartoon and let it sink in….

    There is a lot of talk about the environment and the earth and energy …. Let it sink in

    I’m purchasing an aptera to keep from paying $10 a gallon to drive to work ( which is where we are headed )

  • Lou Verner

    Member
    October 25, 2021 at 1:53 pm

    Patrick, You’re setting up a false premise here. As of 2016, transportation has exceeded power plants has #1 emitter of GHGs, although both account for roughly 1/3 of total. While power plant emission percentage has continued to drop, thanks to both rapidly declining use of coal and increasing renewables, transportation emissions have continued to rise. Driving any EV powered by any power source (and coal increasingly unlikely) still a net plus for environment, for which we should all be concerned!

  • Lou Verner

    Member
    October 25, 2021 at 2:31 pm

    To get back to win/win perspective, whether you’re buying an Aptera to save money or because you’re interested in the environment and lowering carbon emissions, or both, you’re making smart decision!

  • Anoop Patel

    Member
    October 28, 2021 at 7:20 pm

    Not sure if you heard but the latest spending bill proposes a 30% CREDIT FOR 3-WHEEL VEHICLES up to $7500!!!! Reference Part 4–Greening The Fleet and Alternative Vehicles Sec. 136401 (2-wheel/3-wheel EV Credit). Requires a minimum of 2.5kWh battery which I presume even the 200-mile Aptera does.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      October 28, 2021 at 7:41 pm

      Not heard. Thanks for the update. GREAT NEWS. Lets hope that version makes it through and signed into law

      Anoop, I think this warrants the start of a new discussion as it is important enough to be up front not at the bottom of a long thread

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      October 28, 2021 at 8:13 pm

      That’s awesome. Great to see support for my American neighbors in the new rules supporting awesome green domestic options.

      Now I just need to hope the Canadian grants are fixed in time because we currently only get $2k federally and nothing in bc. I’m getting it either way but quite unfair if someone getting a Tesla saves $7k here.

    • Riley ________________________________

      Member
      October 28, 2021 at 9:06 pm

      Where did you hear this? Can you provide a link, thank you.

      • Anoop Patel

        Member
        October 28, 2021 at 9:56 pm

        This was on the “Tesla Daily” Youtube channel. Here’s the link (fast forward to 7:40):

        https://youtu.be/d5oTELr1Gyg

        • Riley ________________________________

          Member
          October 28, 2021 at 10:51 pm

          Thanks for the info, going to put another 40k into FUV if this does pass will be a huge plus for all three wheeler stocks.

          • Curtis Cibinel

            Member
            October 28, 2021 at 11:05 pm

            Wow either you have a lot more money than me or are very bear on this industry. My 10k in Aptera was basically the highest amount in one speculative investment (about 4% of portfolio) I’d consider. Archimoto Fuv production since launch has struggled and didn’t they just have a recall? Seems like you should invest more in Aptera instead ???? (this statement does not constitute financial advise; I am not a licensed investment advisor)

          • Anoop Patel

            Member
            October 29, 2021 at 11:00 am

            Please don’t base your investment decisions on anything I post. I’m just restating what someone else said on Youtube. I invested in FUV a while back but I have my reservations on how much they can grow once they establish this market segment since they will likely face fierce competition from folks like Polaris, Yamaha, Honda, CanAm, and Kawasaki.

            Good luck and I wish you the best.

    • Adrian deLisser

      Member
      October 28, 2021 at 11:23 pm

      Unfortunately, here is the third to last paragraph in Part G, section 136401:

      This provision provides for a 10% credit, not to exceed $2,500, for two and three wheeled plug
      in electric vehicles which have a battery capacity of no less than two and a half kilowatt hours,
      are manufactured primarily for use on roads an highways, and are capable of achieving a speed
      of 45 miles per hour or greater, and otherwise meet the requirements of this section.

      • Anoop Patel

        Member
        October 29, 2021 at 11:26 am

        I believe we are looking at two different versions of the spending proposal. Mine is dated 10/28/21 which provides for the max $7500 credit for 2/3-wheel vehicles. Not sure if it’s worth debating since things will likely change. Personally, I think the 2.5kWh threshold is too low. ✌ Link: https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20211025/BILLS-117HR5376RH-RCP117-17.pdf

        • Adrian deLisser

          Member
          October 29, 2021 at 1:35 pm

          Anoop Patel – I stand corrected. Thank you for the clarification and the link to the later version of the document. As I understand it, the proposed tax credit is the greater of 30% or $7500 for 2/3 wheelers with battery capacities in excess of 2.5kWh).

          Keeping my fingers crossed.

    • Richard Palmisano

      Member
      October 29, 2021 at 6:16 am

      Not 30%….10%.

  • David Maddon

    Member
    October 29, 2021 at 12:25 am

    Lol, Aptera gets $7,500 as all electric three wheelers get.

    • Richard Palmisano

      Member
      October 29, 2021 at 6:17 am

      David Maddon, not true. At most you will get 10% of the purchase price. For my configuration as it stands, that about $4k….

      • John Malcom

        Member
        October 29, 2021 at 11:06 am

        You will get $2,500.. It is 10% up to $2,500

  • Richard Palmisano

    Member
    October 29, 2021 at 6:23 am

    Personally, I don’t care for any credit, let alone a lopsided credit that favors a particular manufacturer or product because of how or who put it together.

    That said, you use your funds as you see fit. There are always options to be had, if you see value in a product you buy it. If you don’t, you leave it on the shelf. Apple I-phones are very expensive, but apparently they sell like crazy because they are very good…whereas Google phones are not as good, so they don’t. People will pay for services and functionality even if it means paying more.

    • David Maddon

      Member
      October 29, 2021 at 10:27 am

      Yes, it is true I just read all 1684 pages of the actual bill not the WH statement about it.

      While I am not so arrogant to assume I couldn’t be wrong after power reading over 1600 pages in a coffee fueled information binge, my understanding is also backed up by other people who do this for a living. Also I doubt you would even qualify for the tax credit anyway. This is is about getting reliable environmentally safe cars in the hands of low income people.

      https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20211025/BILLS-117HR5376RH-RCP117-17.pdf

      PART 4—GREENING THE FLEET AND ALTERNATIVE VEHICLES

      SEC. 136401. REFUNDABLE NEW QUALIFIED PLUG-IN ELEC-

      TRIC DRIVE MOTOR VEHICLE CREDIT FOR INDIVIDUALS.

      • Henry Kitt

        Member
        October 29, 2021 at 12:58 pm

        So your assessment is still $7,500 David?

  • David Maddon

    Member
    October 29, 2021 at 10:45 am

    Please respect the forum rules and not post politics. Posting about the pending legislation and how it affects either the purchasing of the Aptera or the effect of it on our stock investment I think is fine. Posting about an opinion or value of the legislation or the motives by the people passing it is clearly politics. I know that’s extremely hard for people to separate the two things but I feel this is important so all feel welcome here.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      October 29, 2021 at 11:04 am

      Agree 100%. There are plenty of forums to express your person political views. This forum is not one of them. If you feel you can not adhere to the community guidelines in your posts, then please don’t post here

    • Ray Holan

      Moderator
      October 29, 2021 at 11:13 am

      Not to pile on, but I support the sentiment that David and John are expressing.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    October 29, 2021 at 12:10 pm

    Politics and policy towards EV rebates/credits are a little hard to discuss in complete isolation.
    Without going into personal views I will just link the following which can be used for anyone interested in expressing the need for inclusion in the tax credit to their US representatives. Use of this service and communication of political opinions is your own choice.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8oHes9B24w

    https://pluginamerica.salsalabs.org/supportaffordablepersonal2-and3-wheeledevs/index.html

    PS: If anyone happens upon a similar mechanism for communicating to the canadian/provincial governments please link it.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    December 16, 2021 at 12:43 pm

    Please understand that the tax credit does NOT reduce the price of the car as stated in some articles about other EVs

    The tax credit only helps those who OWE taxes to the federal government at the end of the year

    If you typically get a refund , you won’t get squat in tax credit period

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      December 16, 2021 at 1:11 pm

      Thats not true. As long as you pay $7500 in tax regardless of if you owe or get a refund at tax time it is relevant. It really should be a rebate but its still accessible to the vast majority of people with the income to afford an EV. If someone has no recognized income then yes the credit may be useless but that’s a fairly rare situation. Employers deduct the taxes as a kind of “best effort” to simulate the tax calculation so people don’t pay it all at once when they do their taxes. Needless to say tax calculations are complicated and vary by state. Due to personal situations, deductions, etc this number will often be wrong which is why the refund or owing when you do your taxes.

      • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

        Member
        December 16, 2021 at 2:01 pm

        Thumbs up Curtis, I answered close to the same in the New Jersey Thread just now, perhaps with too much detail, but that’s how I (Three Wheeled) roll. The one bit I’ll attach here, is crunching the numbers for 2021, if your adjusted earned income after deductions was $55,000 your federal tax for the year (And remember we are only talking about federal tax here) would be $7848 entitling you to the full $7500 credit.

        • Curtis Cibinel

          Member
          December 16, 2021 at 3:41 pm

          FYI while I understand US taxation (I develop payroll software); I am Canadian. Our incentives suck – BC/Quebec provide $2k CAD for e-motorcycles. The Chevy Dolt gets $13k in Quebec.

          I’d rather see carbon tax and no incentives (as Elon pushed) because things like aptera and chinese imports (still subject to tariffs) fall through cracks of these types of incentives. It simplifies a lot of things regarding international policies / loopholes if everyone taxes carbon and loses incentives.

          • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

            Member
            December 16, 2021 at 4:00 pm

            Curtis, sorry, except for the kudos for you, (And I figured you had a good grasp on it.) I was just posting what the break even point was on income for the folks playing along at home.

          • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

            Member
            December 16, 2021 at 4:02 pm

            I see your point on incentives and such, but we have what we get for the most part.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    December 19, 2021 at 11:56 am

    It appears Build Back Better is functionally dead at this point due to loss of a swing vote from Manchin and with it the incentives for Aptera (e-motorcycles) in the US. Hoping that smaller scale legislation with increased carbon/gas/new ICE car tax can come along as a more fiscally responsible way of balancing the externalities of gas cars.

  • GLENN ZAJIC

    Member
    December 19, 2021 at 3:03 pm

    Hope Munchkin’s stocking gets filled with his favorite substance.

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