Off Road package info

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Off Road package info

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Off Road package info

  • Off Road package info

  • Richard Marks

    Member
    August 14, 2021 at 10:41 am

    Does the Off Road option decrease range?

    • This discussion was modified 1 month ago by  John Trotter. Reason: Title expanded for search clarity
  • Len Nowak

    Moderator
    August 14, 2021 at 12:10 pm

    We don’t know yet, weight and what all will be offered. We heard the AWD could be a 10% hit

    • GLENN ZAJIC

      Member
      August 14, 2021 at 1:36 pm

      The more drag the less efficient. The more weight the less efficient. The more speed the less efficient. 10% hit for AWD 20% increase in fun!!

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      August 16, 2021 at 7:20 am

      Where did they say that AWD will be 10% less efficient? It could be more efficient, with the three motor system 98% of the time it will be using the single rear motor only. You only need all three motors when getting out of the snow or when flooring it, when you are cruising along a single motor is sufficient.

      • Len Nowak

        Moderator
        August 16, 2021 at 8:59 am

        Chris mention the hit in a video.

        • George Hughes

          Member
          August 17, 2021 at 10:32 am

          Sure did, but my recollection of the remark was that the 10 percent decline for adding the rear motor was a first-blush decline in efficiency before, say, power shifting or other approaches to boost efficiency were tried. I.e. with some optimization, the hit for the third motor could be like 3-5 percent.

          It is kind of like adding a fourth wheel; the shorthand estimate of the increase in drag and rolling resistance would be 25 % but by placement of the wheel and other strategies, the hit might be as much as 10% lower because of other design efficiencies.

      • Gabriel Kemeny

        Moderator
        August 16, 2021 at 11:17 am

        The addition of the weight alone (for the third motor) will make it less efficient – I think it was noted somewhere that consumption/efficiency drops by 1% for every 30lbs of weight.

      • G Johns

        Member
        August 18, 2021 at 9:05 am

        Joshua Rosen, I think it would be less stable with just rear wheel propulsion.

  • GLENN ZAJIC

    Member
    August 14, 2021 at 12:57 pm

    It must, at least a little, or they would have designed them all that way. Think about it.

  • Fanfare 100

    Member
    August 14, 2021 at 7:17 pm

    Likely, though we don’t know by how much, nor if it is an option we can change to and from at will depending on the driving circumstance and need.

  • Morris Wilder

    Member
    August 16, 2021 at 5:18 pm

    I’m thinking about adding the off road option. Does anyone know what the ground clearance will be from the bottom of the wheel cover to the ground after the option?

    • Len Nowak

      Moderator
      August 16, 2021 at 6:58 pm

      This has been answered already…

      Since the std GC is 5” at bottom of the wheel covers and the belly is 9”. They hope to realize 2” additional to this GC, BUT until they do it there is no spec.

  • Richard Marks

    Member
    September 30, 2021 at 7:17 pm

    Still haven’t seen whether the off road option decreases driving range.

    • Len Nowak

      Moderator
      September 30, 2021 at 7:51 pm

      It depends what is included and “what all that” weighs

      We have read about a a 1% range hit for ever 30#…

      Time will tell.. Hopefully in one of the remaining development vehicles… they will outfit one?

      You don’t have to commit to that kit until your order come due…

    • Harry Parker

      Moderator
      September 30, 2021 at 8:29 pm

      Well, yes, the off-road option is sure to reduce the range.

      More of the tires will be exposed for one thing. Those wheel skirts are there to reduce drag, so less wheel skirt means more drag, leading to less range.

      What we don’t know: By how much?

      Until they decide on, test and reveal their simulated wind tunnel tested off-road design, we won’t know.

      • Len Nowak

        Moderator
        October 1, 2021 at 5:38 am

        Yeah!

        And the true off roader type may change out the low roll tires for heavier tires. I have some primitive roads. People may justify some things for their needs/lifestyle, but yet keeping it simple

        Who knows some may like “the look”too ( only an old rendering but the attached photo was once posted ) It might be neat to lock up for light off road and return for paved road

        I need it more for height, but without impact to ride…as paved roads are most of “my trek” TBD

  • DON RASKY

    Member
    November 18, 2021 at 12:11 pm

    I would like to use the Aptera to explore the many fire roads that lead to campsites in Southern California. I would also like to travel regardless of weather be it rain or snow. Given these interests, I am curious how much of a loss in range I will incur by adding a rear wheel motor and/or the off-road package. I LOVE THE APTERA CONCEPT. I just want to get my order right.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    November 18, 2021 at 12:24 pm

    The rough estimate is 10% for AWD and 10% for off-road. Cabin heating would also cut into this as will being nice to the battery (trying to stay in the 20-80% range most of the time). As I similarly will use these packages and drive in winter I simply take the range in miles and assume it will be my real world range in km (for me the 400 mile/km version is still good).

  • Len Nowak

    Moderator
    November 18, 2021 at 12:32 pm

    Oh I only read “ figure about 10% hit for AWD

    in the FAQ spreadsheet

    Since we don’t knowc what all is in the off road kit and weight, hopefully a much smaller range hit at slower off road speeds unless there are lots of greater than 6% inclines to deal with

  • Paul Kirchner

    Member
    November 18, 2021 at 1:51 pm

    Not to derail the topic but honestly, what do you think Aptera means by off-road? It’s gotta be a huge stretch of the concept of off-road to put a vehicle like Aptera into it. I’m thinking off-road in an Aptera to be a mildly convoluted gravel road, certainly nothing like a proper 4×4 would call off-roading.

    • Lou Verner Verner

      Member
      November 18, 2021 at 2:27 pm

      That was my interpretation Paul and it’s for those mild to maybe moderately convoluted gravel roads on grade that I’ll be encountering in WNC that I ordered the off-road package. That extra couple of inches of clearance and toughened wheel covers will hopefully help.

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      November 18, 2021 at 3:03 pm

      My interpretation of intent:

      Standard Aptera: Goes anywhere a Honda Civic can.

      Off-road Aptera: Goes anywhere a Subaru Outback Wilderness goes. (9.5″ ground clearance and AWD with chunky tires. Will handle most moderate to easy trails but nothing hardcore) They said verbally in the FAQ I believe it was to enable the Aptera to get off the beaten path to places you normally don’t see most EVs.

      Bear in mind, the unprotected belly is vulnerable to rock damage if you high-center it. Other than that it should be a lot better than most of the EVs on the market now short of a Rivian.

    • Paul Kirchner

      Member
      November 18, 2021 at 4:08 pm

      Another EV manufacturer just posted their video on their idea of “off-road” of their EV.

      The Rimac Nevera. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZYRpkl4cTU

      • Lou Verner Verner

        Member
        November 18, 2021 at 4:59 pm

        Was wondering why I’d never heard of the Nevera…until I heard the price tag! Impressive performance – will definitely make it my go-to off-road backup to the Aptera, which I will save for paved road transportation only ????

        • kerbe2705

          Member
          November 18, 2021 at 6:09 pm

          Rimac (pronounced “reem-matz”) has a fine series of videos about their vehicles on YouTube.

      • DON RASKY

        Member
        November 18, 2021 at 7:11 pm

        Yep. Pretty much I figured off road only meant dirt/gravel roads on the way to out of the way campgrounds. Southern California has a lot of fire roads in the national forests that are essentially graded dirt. Thanks for the video. I don’t plan to spin my Aptera quite so much as in the vid.

  • Ronald Miller

    Member
    November 18, 2021 at 4:57 pm

    Cool jacket! Hopefully Aptera will make some cool swag available – I have a shirt and hat but dare I say it – boring!!

  • DON RASKY

    Member
    November 23, 2021 at 12:09 pm

    I understand that with the off road package that the Aptera gets a slight lift to 9″ and more sturdy wheel covers. Does anyone know if the suspension gets any beefier or if it might increase the load bearing capacity of the Aptera? If it’s just the lift kit and the more sturdy wheel covers, not sure it will really help me much with local potholes, rough country fire roads, and the occasional visit to snow country.

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    November 23, 2021 at 1:22 pm

    Not sure. The beta suspension uses coilovers so it may be just raising the coilovers all the way up and swapping out the wheel pants to tougher ones with more clearance.

    Here are some fan renders of possible ideas of what that might look like.

    • Raj Giandeep

      Member
      November 23, 2021 at 1:27 pm

      Nice mockups Peter! I have the off-road selected for now. But if I can remove the covers for off-road at slow speeds I may not get off road.

      I’d imagine they would do a video all about the off-road when they are ready to show it. Right now there is no real info yet. There is this official image that seems to be the off road package. But it’s CGI so it will probably change a bit with the beta / production builds.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        November 23, 2021 at 2:04 pm

        I showed the Aptera to one of my sons. He said “Hmm, sissy car”. He has a tricked out Wrangler with lifts, over sized tires, winch, and light bar. If a vehicle can’t rock crawl at Moab UT, he doesn’t consider it off road.

        Of course, he can’t drive more than a block before needing to fill his gas tank. Don’t know where I went wrong with him????

        • Riley ________________________________

          Member
          November 23, 2021 at 8:06 pm

          So many points you could bring up. I am into many types of vehicles, big block lifted 4×4 sounds awesome to me. Aptera fits a completely different niche such as infinite overlanding range and simplicity of design for easy repairability. Its easy to see aptera as an “elegant” commuter car but with a 0-60 time of 3.5 which is faster than a corvette and hellcat it places it into supercar territory.

        • Joshua Rosen

          Member
          November 24, 2021 at 6:47 am

          How does he feel about Rivian?

          • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

            Member
            November 24, 2021 at 2:58 pm

            electric car only worth it when efficiency is high priority b/c of recycling and weight issues. trucks do lot of work just moivng around before being used for what they exist for.

        • Ronnie

          Member
          November 30, 2021 at 9:43 pm

          John, very interesting & relevant ????. Joking. Obviously everyone should express themselves freely, regardless.

          Cheers!

  • Joshua Caldwell

    Member
    November 24, 2021 at 6:26 am

    I’m doing the off road version thanks to my employer, we park in a dirt lot that keeps getting huge potholes and our employer rarely grades it flat again, only twice in 5 years that I can recall that happening. (by huge, the potholes get nearly car sized over the years, going down a foot or more, and fills with water, so if you don’t know it’s there, you have a problem getting out of the mud hole)

  • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

    Member
    November 26, 2021 at 9:31 pm

    suspension can make energy out of shock by a gearbox(maybe with worm gear) that converts vertical movement into horizontal circular movement, motor generator spins both directions. theres also mclaren720s airpressure assist suspension connecting all wheels. similar to freepiston combustion electric generator, maybe vertical magnets on sliding rails could help too. air pressure in piston could help too, and in the mclaren pressure system the flow could push turbine like water dam power plants. porsche or audi or bently has a motor pushing a lever up and down as suspenion moves updown. i think i mentioned this stuff in old forum.

  • John Trotter

    Moderator
    November 28, 2021 at 7:11 pm

    I selected the off-road package even though it is a bit of a pig-in-the-poke until the details are disclosed. I am only interested because it seems an inexpensive way to have a bit more flexibility in where we could drive. Not for rock climbing, such as is best done in purpose-built machines.

    What would I specifically value?

    – Increased bottom clearance. I doubt there would be the inefficiency hit from having more under-body space as there is with flat-bottom cars. (Remember, Aptera moves the wheel shape away from the body in part to improve aerodynamics.) Weight is already pretty low, thanks to batteries.

    – Skid plate. The right-to-repair video pointed out that there are electrical components down there that might warrant extra protection. I can imagine dragging composite over sharp rocks (or curbs or driveways) is not a good idea.

    – Smaller front wheel pants. Increase ground clearance and make tougher. Somehow.

    – Rear wheel stanchion. Harden leading edge and increase ground clearance.

    – Adjustable suspension? These were expensive systems in two of my prior cars (Audi and Jeep) and I’m not sure the Aptera benefit of the complexity. Maybe.

    – Better lighting? Not a light-bar exactly, but a better-than-standard array.

    – Of course, I can’t imagine off-road without also AWD.

    Something else?

    • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

      Member
      November 30, 2021 at 8:43 pm

      said headlight should be around driver forehead level over line if sight with lenses to make a more straight beam through curved windshield. this allows driving home at dark after alight front end crash.

      front end piece transparent to allow front end lisence plate to be see inside the front end rather than mess up areodynamics.same condensation management as headlight, needs to not melt under esxtreme heat sun, tinting helps

      • Bernard Dubuc

        Member
        January 16, 2022 at 8:54 pm

        remember there are no front plates on motorcycles, so I presume the aptera won’t have any

  • Ronnie

    Member
    November 30, 2021 at 9:40 pm

    I thought it was more fender related (higher clearance & stronger construction) than an actual body lift or suspension change.

    Does someone have video &/or detail to point me to that further distinguishes between?

    I ordered the off road package on both of ours (his & hers) and perhaps I misunderstood what it comes with in that regard. Maybe I missed something or there’s further clarification.

    Thank you in advance.

    Much Appreciated.

    • Harry Parker

      Moderator
      December 1, 2021 at 7:29 am

      Last I heard, they have yet to complete the design of their off-road version.

      They have yet to complete a build of a Beta prototype to test their brand new standard suspension. Off-road design completion is probably waiting until after they see how well their standard suspension works on rough roads.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        December 1, 2021 at 8:03 am

        This order makes sense in the tasks that need to b done to complete and start testing of Betas. Good to have a longtime Ambassador respond!????

        Have missed your commenting

    • Hayden Maxwell

      Member
      December 1, 2021 at 2:16 pm

      That was my question as well. I would like to be able to do some off-road, but if the only features of the off-road package relate to the wheel fairings, I would rather just order the standard setup and remove the wheel covers entirely when off-roading as I do like the look and increased efficiency of the standard wheel covers. If the off-road package does, however, offer additional features such as increased ride height, tunable suspension, and/or skid plates, then it may be worth purchasing.

  • Dale Burchfield

    Member
    January 9, 2022 at 1:32 pm

    I picked it hoping for better winter performance, but mainly I hope I will sit a little higher up. helping getting in and out

    • Preston of Rockville

      Member
      April 20, 2022 at 8:47 am

      Exactly why I chose that option as well, Don.

  • Leaver

    Member
    January 9, 2022 at 4:31 pm

    I too have the off-road package ordered with AWD in the hopes for more ground clearance (and not just more clearance on the wheel pants). I live in remote Alaska, where most local “roads” are dirt and gravel, and, as I write, we have 5 feet of snow on the ground with more falling. So yeah… I need every bit of extra clearance I can get. Fingers crossed that the off-road package will be less aesthetic and more practical.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      January 9, 2022 at 6:55 pm

      Wow, that will be a challenging user test for the Aptera!

    • GLENN ZAJIC

      Member
      January 10, 2022 at 12:29 am

      With 5 feet of snow you absolutely would need off-road package, AWD, and maybe even (on the rear) those paddle tires dune buggies use! Your right John, a REAL test!

      • This reply was modified 7 months, 1 week ago by  GLENN ZAJIC.
      • Leaver

        Member
        January 10, 2022 at 7:42 am

        Much of the time, even in winter when the roads are cleared, I’m able to get around in my 2014 Nissan Leaf, but it takes a beating. When we get a big dump of snow, (like we did yesterday and today), unfortunately I need to break out the ICE truck.

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        April 20, 2022 at 10:30 am

        Maybe Aptera can come out with a “Track kit” would kill efficiency but could get you through the snow. I have a cousin that lives high in the mountains above of Park City UT. Even chains will not get him through a winter. He drives a pickup and has a track kit he installs so he can get up and down his driveway.

    • Hayden Maxwell

      Member
      January 10, 2022 at 7:52 am

      Dang, 5 feet! Where are you at in Alaska? I’ve only got about 2 feet out here in Palmer.

      • Leaver

        Member
        January 10, 2022 at 3:02 pm

        I’m in Skagway. But 2 feet is no joke either.

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        April 20, 2022 at 10:31 am

        Not a problem for me. I live in Coco Beach FL😉

  • Guy SKEER

    Member
    January 20, 2022 at 6:49 am

    While I have spent a fair amount of Time Driving Off-Road, I am not thinking that this Vehicle is well suited for Much more than Easy stuff.

    Any Situation where wheel ruts are deep for Bog-Standard 4X4s, The Aluminum Underbelly is at risk on the APTERA. Deep Snow driving risks “High Centering the Underbelly,or giving it a scrub.

    Even My Driveway here in the Glorious NorthBest poses a problem, at least until I have negotiated it enough times to Wear off the Moss in the Center of the Lane.

    Maybe a better Nomenclature would be “Traction Limited” or “Sport” model?

  • Len Nowak

    Moderator
    January 20, 2022 at 7:54 am

    I don’t think they ever intended as a 3-WD All- terrain vehicle…

    I live off primitive roads ( which are graded regularly ) which is why I have Off Road “ kit “✔️ but I am not sure I really need it yet.

    I sure want the std fairings over the wheel for the majority of my paved road driving

    I need to understand range loss for the Off road option etc

    I am ok with ~ 10% range loss for AWD “if” that becomes reality

    The paved roads in the big city down here in the SW have more potholes😔

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    January 20, 2022 at 8:03 am

    Pot holes are going to be the big problem with this vehicle because you won’t be able to steer around them, if you avoid them with the front tires you’ll hit them with the rear tire. I hope they’ve taken this in mind when designing the rear suspension.

  • Jason Best

    Member
    January 20, 2022 at 9:10 am

    Can someone point out an official source of what is meant by “off-road” option for an Aptera? I’ve done a few searches and the only results point to Community discussions. Also, when I go to my reservation order and try to modify it, I don’t see any off-road option.

    Edit: I found the link to the FAQ Spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11Of3g6RYqstbXecs7j2UHHd_b8s5MebxEs-ZwkyMiiQ/edit?usp=sharing) which has some questions and responses about the off-road options but it’s not clear who provided the responses. But it does seem that “off-road” is not a settled feature or spec but likely a combination of suspension modifications/adjustabililty and modification of the wheel fairings for greater clearance. I still haven’t found anything that I’d consider official.

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by  Jason Best. Reason: Adding FAQ URL and comments
    • Scott P

      Member
      January 20, 2022 at 11:04 am

      Jason, this is generally referring to the “All-Wheel Drive System” option and also the “Off-Road Kit” upgrade option, depending upon which aspect of “off-road” capability you are referring to (all wheel traction and/or increased clearance + stronger wheel covers).

    • David LeDane

      Member
      January 20, 2022 at 12:12 pm

      Jason,

      At the bottom of where you are viewing and editing your reservation is another button that says “save and continue”. When you click this button it shows you the other options- safety pilot, enhanced audio, camping kit, pet kit , and off road . Hope this helps

    • G Johns

      Member
      January 25, 2022 at 10:41 am

      Mr. Rosen,

      Here in the more moderate temperature south east I have yet to see a pothole. Road debris yes, but no potholes. I’m only interested in the off road package because it may have higher ground clearance and I have always liked the way that looks for a vehicle. Always been partial to pick up trucks because of the higher clearance. If it’s going to cost me a 10% or more hit in efficency then I might not order it. But if the ground clearance is adjustable manually or automatic then it’s a definite must have. Regardless I will never be going off road more than a grassy parking lot.

      • John Trotter

        Moderator
        January 25, 2022 at 6:59 pm

        G Johns. I know the 10% efficiency hit for “off road” (whatever that is) has been mentioned by the Aptera folks, but I don’t see a reason for it. Frontal area not significantly different. Same for weight. Air flow might even be better, unlike normal flat-bottomed, hug-the-ground cars.

        • Riley ________________________________

          Member
          January 26, 2022 at 2:06 am

          The increase in ground clearance is from shorter wheel pants not a lifted suspension. The more exposed tires is what causes the 10% hit to efficiency.

  • Jason Best

    Member
    January 20, 2022 at 3:01 pm

    OK, got it now. Thanks Scott and David. I didn’t click on the Save and Continue because I thought I had seen all the options. I added the Off-Road kit for $1000 but I do hope that there will be the option to have a second set of regular wheel covers for daily driving. Truthfully I probably would be able to handle the gravel roads I anticipate with only the stock suspension and covers but I’ll update my order once some of you earlier guinea pigs report back!

  • Bojan Majdandzic

    Member
    January 25, 2022 at 6:54 am

    On asking Aptera about the off-road kit I got this answer:

    The off-road package will have at least a 7″ clearance. However, this may change as we continue to test. We will be releasing more figures on our off-roading capability in the future as we do. The kit comes with a different style of wheel pants that are configurable for off-road and the body of the vehicle is raised, as well as the wheel covers to guard against curb and rock damage.
    Raising the wheel pants a bit gives you a little tougher stance and we’re still working on suspension mods, but there may also be ways to lock out the rear and raise and lower the suspension, and we’ll get to that over time. The suspension MAY be adjustable for the off-road kit, but please stay tuned.

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