Overnight sleeping with climate control

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Overnight sleeping with climate control

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Overnight sleeping with climate control

  • Overnight sleeping with climate control

     Efrain Goody updated 1 day, 1 hour ago 17 Members · 31 Posts
  • Joseph Wall

    Member
    August 1, 2022 at 9:53 pm

    I’ve been thinking about the possibility of taking the Aptera to the extreme and maybe even sleeping in it, as I’m small enough to probably sleep in the back comfortably with the hatch closed. So if I were to do that, and I parked in a place with bad weather, let’s say it’s excessively cold or rainy or really hot, will I be able to sleep in it overnight with the climate control system active without waking up to a dead battery? I have the 400mi version reserved for this reason, as I was hoping that would be enough of a buffer.

    Maybe it’s a dumb question, but there’s been very little data released about how much energy it takes to run the A/C or the heater, and the car is specifically designed to be able to get by with as small a battery as possible because the actual locomotion aspect of the car is incredibly efficient, so how much is really left over for the equivalent of a small space heater? My ideal condition would be that the energy required to sleep overnight with climate controls is less than or equal to the amount I get back for free from the solar charging, but maybe that’s being too optimistic, being that most space heaters run a kilowatt and a half and the solar system is max 700w. But maybe with the small space and if the cabin is well-insulated, it might not need to run all night to keep the interior warm enough to sleep.

    I know we all have access to the same info and if I couldn’t find any final info on this, probably nobody else can either, but I’d love to have some other community members’ input.

  • Russell Fauver

    Member
    August 1, 2022 at 10:16 pm

    I have wondered about camper mode too. I think before heading out for a remote location I might load a solar panel or two (space provided) before loading the rest of the gear. Aptera says there will be a way to plug some additional solar directly into the vehicle to assist with battery charging.

  • Len Nowak

    Moderator
    August 2, 2022 at 4:28 am

    I doubt they spent much time on that one at this stage but….taking adding heat out of the conversation and thinking back to my early years of camping in a uninsulated fabric tent. The enclosed cargo area is well off the ground providing a dry shelter. The Aptera body has some R-value being made of a resin-filled sandwich core composite. Add use of lightweight modern day camping down sleeping bag, heat reflective blanket etc… It may not be too bad with those passive options. Just some thoughts before considering using power…

  • Mark Salyzyn

    Member
    August 2, 2022 at 6:15 am

    I expect to use the climate control while camping _regardless_ of drain as long as I have enough range left to the next power cord, my wife would not allow it any other way. I need the ability to do so independent of the car’s status to minimize other drains, but I also would hope for a climate control system with the ability to control the hysteresis. eg: start heating at 65, start cooling at 77, in between is ok for efficiency’s sake. AFIACT they are using phase change heat pump for air conditioning, but resistive (?) for heating, as one of their update videos talk about when they plan on exploring a heat pump for both as it was more efficient. Later <mumble mumble> production models, was the apparent answer if I am allowed to paraphrase. I am not prepared to scan back to find the specific Q&A so I hope my memory is not failing me.

    I ordered the 600m option. I live in Florida where A/C is essential, but camping for me will be more of a four corners activity.

  • Dan Stevens

    Member
    August 2, 2022 at 6:36 am

    I’ve used my Tesla Model Y for additional sleeping capacity at times. Never had an issue running it overnight for climate. Of course, being in Northern CA, the climate at night is usually pretty moderate, so I wasn’t trying to air condition the beating sun with 105 deg temps in the middle of the AZ desert, but the AC does still run.

    If memory serves correctly, I would lose about 50 miles of range overnight from doing this or for better translation, probably 10-15KW used.

    The kids tend to enjoy this as part of the adventure.

    • Dennis Swaney

      Member
      August 2, 2022 at 7:59 pm

      Where in NorCal are you? When I lived by Oroville, we routinely had triple digit summer temps. It is why in 1999 after 10 years of ownership I installed A/C in my Miata!

      • Dan Stevens

        Member
        August 2, 2022 at 9:49 pm

        East bay, but the last car camping happened up in Santa Rosa. The ‘teens’ slept in the car, us partiers slept in the motorhome.

        It was for the summer country concert. Good times!

        • Dennis Swaney

          Member
          August 3, 2022 at 1:08 pm

          Ah, outside the Sacramento Valley then. Makes sense as both those areas are moderated by large bodies of water. Unfortunately Lake Oroville isn’t big enough to have the same effect.

  • Larry Mason

    Member
    August 2, 2022 at 11:42 am

    I have the same question and the same intent (or out tent, as it were). Seems like a natural use for an Aptera and fairly common among the Tesla crowd. One hesitation is that early units will have resistive heating, rather than running the A/C backwards (a heat pump by its other name). More data is definitely needed. That said, modern backpacking gear is compact and lightweight.

    I’m thinking the all electric camper, 12v fridge (no cooler), induction cooktop, (no propane). My vision is sweet (to me). Remains to be seen if I’m in the realm of actual possibilities. Also hoping I’m not too tall.

    • Joseph Wall

      Member
      August 3, 2022 at 10:20 pm

      I have the same dream/vision as you, I wanna be able to live in this thing. I know most of it won’t be feasible though. I like the idea of the fridge though, I didn’t even think of that. I guess if you’re going solo out into the wilderness you could just pile stuff into the passenger floorboard.

      • Larry Mason

        Member
        August 6, 2022 at 11:29 am

        Not original ideas on my part. There is a thriving community of Prius car campers with tons of great ideas. Search YouTube for Prius campers.

        I’m an apartment dweller with no possibility of charging at home. But I live close to many of my routine destinations. The thought of firing up my fossilmobile to go five miles was aggravating, so I thought I might get a used Prius and run it in the EV mode for short trips. I stumbled across the Prius camping community while researching that idea.

        Then I thought “Hold on to your money. The Aptera is coming!” Here I am. It’s a perfect fit for my use case.

    • Efrain Goody

      Member
      August 7, 2022 at 8:13 am

      I don’t need much to live. I currently don’t even have a home. I rent a room near my work, and I stay at my parents’ place on the weekend. As such, the aptera has a lot of appeal for me as a mini camper. It will need a bit of creativity to be able to work with the space available, but the free sun charging and hyper-efficiency really sell the concept.

  • Tyler Fisher

    Member
    August 2, 2022 at 11:59 am

    Check out some of Bjorn Nyland’s EV camping vids on youtube! From what i can tell, i think most EV’s use about 1KW an hour when just running the climate controls. So if you were to get the ideal amount of power from the sun, you’d get roughly half a night’s worth of climate control from the sun? Someone let me know if my figures are off.

    Either way you should be able to camp in it just fine 👍

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 22 hours ago by  Tyler Fisher. Reason: Spacing
    • Joseph Wall

      Member
      August 3, 2022 at 10:23 pm

      That’s what I was thinking, especially with some others mentioning the 50w electric blanket idea, which would minimize the amount of cabin heat you’d need to run.

  • cody dahl

    Member
    August 2, 2022 at 5:05 pm

    It will depend a lot on how well insulated the Aptera is along with the climate your camping in, and if your using the tent attachment I feel like you would basically be wasting power as I dont think fabric tents hold in the heat or cold super well. My Volt will pull between 1kw to 3kw for AC. Heating on the other hands will pull a lot of power for me it’s up to 9kw in my car so idk about winter camping. I feel like this will be a thing without a good answer until someone does it irl.

    • Joseph Wall

      Member
      August 3, 2022 at 8:40 pm

      Oh yeah I definitely don’t mean with the camping attachment, I mean hatch closed for sure. I forget which video it is, but there’s an official Aptera video where it’s an overhead drone shot and Sol is driving down this coastal highway, and there’s a full grown man laying in the back with the hatch closed who’s visible for a couple of seconds in the shot (I don’t know what he’s doing in there), so I know I can fit back there with the hatch closed since I’m smaller than most men. But at the same time, it might not be sleepable with the hatch closed for some taller or claustrophobic people.

      You’re right, like most of our questions on this forum, it’ll have to wait until someone actually has one and does it irl lmao. Fun to speculate though.

      • Kevin Bradbury

        Member
        August 3, 2022 at 9:05 pm

        I saw that video too and think it was either a camera, sound guy or drone operator.

        I would think that a person could comfortably lie down lengthwise in the back with the hatch closed by moving the seats forward and using some kind of gap filler behind the front seats. Provided you don’t have really big feet that would hit the hatch cover.

        • Joseph Wall

          Member
          August 3, 2022 at 10:16 pm

          I remember one of the CEOs saying quite a few times in different videos that there’s definitely a little shelf they’re going to ship that does exactly that, you fold the seats up and fold the shelf out to extend the cargo area for sleeping. I don’t know if that shelf is a part of the camping upgrade, which I think it might be, because there’s no way that little cloth tent costs 600 dollars, that’s gotta be for the sleep shelf upgrade.

          In fact I’d like that’s something I’d want clarification on too, if everyone gets the shelf, I definitely don’t need the camping attachment upgrade, because I’m definitely small enough to be in there with the hatch closed. If the shelf is a part of the upgrade, I’ll buy that for sure.

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    August 2, 2022 at 8:08 pm

    Tesla has a “Dog Mode” for the HVAC system that allows you to set a temperature for your pet, lock the vehicle and the inside temperature will stay at the preset temperature. Used to be an option, now comes with my 2023 model 3 due out between Dec. 2022 and Jan. 31st 2023.

    • Joseph Wall

      Member
      August 3, 2022 at 10:26 pm

      Oh yeah dog mode for sure. Hopefully the people in charge of Aptera’s firmware development are aware of this. If not, I’m sure that’d be an easy download and upgrade once they do figure it out.

  • larry kaiser

    Member
    August 3, 2022 at 4:57 am

    I intend to pick up at the factory and drive back to Nebraska even if I get the call during the winter. An electric blanket will work just fine. I expect that there will be a 120V outlet in the cargo area. I think a twin size blanket uses about 80 watts so an 8-hour rest would use .64KW. I will check that power draw and edit this post if I am off. I have given a lot of thought to what I will take on a camping trip or keep in Aptera during the winter. I think a person could be quite comfortable for a long time in all but the hottest weather. edit) It looks like the power draw of an electric blanket ranges from 50 to 400 watts. That is probably a twin on low to a king on high. there is another category of heated covers called a throw. Smaller than a twin and so should draw less wattage.

    How is this for a scenario. You are caught in a blizzard. You climb into the back of your Aptera, get under your electric blanket and set it to medium. If you are not warm enough you cover with your sleeping bag. In the morning you open a window and get a cup of snow. Using your immersion heater you bring the cup of water to a boil (you will have to add snow several times). Since you have tea bags, instant coffee and granola bars in your survival supplies you have a nice breakfast. After a blizzard the sun generally comes out and so, after breakfast you clear the snow off your solar panels and get back under the covers and read, surf the net, text or nap. I can hardly wait!

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 2 hours ago by  larry kaiser.
    • Joseph Wall

      Member
      August 3, 2022 at 10:11 pm

      I didn’t think about that. The electric blanket is a much more efficient solution. I was thinking about going even further than simply camping; Sometimes I think about completely divorcing myself from the institutional structure of society, selling all of my belongings except the bare essentials, hopping into the Aptera, and just driving wherever I wanted to be. I could make a few rideshare food deliveries wherever I currently am just to make a little spending money for food and water, and maybe enough to pay my way somewhere that I could get a little plug-in charge and a shower if I need it, and I’d be no man’s slave. No more boss, no more landlord, no more power company, no more just slaving away to pay bills sit in traffic and go home. I could get out and just live, do a little work here and there. If I get harassed by the cops, I can say sorry officer and start the car and drive somewhere else to sleep, surely the laws haven’t gotten so bad everywhere in the US that I’d be run out of every town for being a hobo in a spaceship car.

  • Scott Armstrong

    Member
    August 3, 2022 at 2:29 pm

    Grest post and discussion! In FL with 400mi version on order- has anyone considered an Ecoflow power backup system? I am thinking about getting a 3.6kw one to support camping nightime power needs, as an emergency range backup charge option, and hopefully to be able to use the solar charging capability of the car to charge it back up during the days the car is fully charged but still camping

    Any knowledge if this would work or not?

    Link to ecoflow provided below.

    Cheers!

    https://us.ecoflow.com/products/delta-pro-portable-power-station?utm_source=google&utm_medium=pmax&utm_campaign=home&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuaiXBhCCARIsAKZLt3mVZYOWN9WBJBnQ_9BFnj3c8_l1SelB4mCgZndjC45tvHCOWYxmqhYaAouyEALw_wcBhttps://us.ecoflow.com/products/delta-pro-portable-power-station?utm_source=google&utm_medium=pmax&utm_campaign=home&gclid=Cj0KCQjwuaiXBhCCARIsAKZLt3mVZYOWN9WBJBnQ_9BFnj3c8_l1SelB4mCgZndjC45tvHCOWYxmqhYaAouyEALw_wcB

    • John LaRocque

      Member
      August 3, 2022 at 2:56 pm

      I think it would make more sense to just upgrade to the 600 mile Aptera – $4,800 for ~20kWh vs. $3,700 for 3.6kWh from the power bank (granted, there are other much cheaper options per Wh as far as power banks). Probably would be more efficient as well, since the vehicle battery would be charged directly rather than having two steps in the chain.

      I believe Aptera has said there will be a camping mode and a 120V inverter, so you’re not getting much benefit out of the power bank aside from the ability to separate it from the car.

      One other option is to carry extra solar panels, if the proposed jack for external panels ends up being included. Much cheaper than a power bank while providing a similar amount of extra endurance over a few days – lightweight flexible panels can be had for around $1.50/W.

      • M T

        Member
        August 5, 2022 at 3:43 am

        I saw those yesterday. Not cheap, and a bit floppy, but they are very light. 400W solar panel kit that would easily fit in the trunk, even fit under a rigid diy cover so they would always be there if you need them, but would make the trunk 90% the same when you don’t.

  • Leo Shapiro

    Member
    August 3, 2022 at 9:06 pm

    Looking at the smallest portable AC/heaters. Assuming extreme climate and a constant need to have it on to maintain climate. You will probably lose around 10kwh a night. Since there isn’t any passive charging at night i wouldn’t use it for that. You wouldn’t make it back with the solar cells unless you had numerous supplemental solar panels for charging in the day. Which would in turn leave you with minimal storage/sleeping space.

    • Joseph Wall

      Member
      August 3, 2022 at 10:33 pm

      I think that’s a pretty reasonable estimation. I could live with that. As long as I don’t wake up cold and stranded, that’s good enough for me. I’m sure if I woke up with like 10kwh left in the battery, I could probably get back to civilization, or at least to a 110v outlet, because I don’t plan on going anywhere outrageous. I just like the idea of being able to drop everything, hop in the car, drive anywhere, park, sleep, wake up and do it again, even if the only outlets around me are 110v.

      • Kevin Bradbury

        Member
        August 4, 2022 at 5:11 pm

        @Joseph Wall – Since you will not be tied down to any location, migrate with the seasons. Summers in the Pacific NW and winter in Key West. You’ll have a lot of space when you only have to pack shorts and t-shirts.😀

        • larry kaiser

          Member
          August 5, 2022 at 9:21 am

          I read somewhere that if you travel 8 miles a day, north in the summer and south in the winter you can stay in roughly the same climate all the time. I like the weather in the early fall so if I started south early in September at 8MPD I would get to the gulf or close to the slabs at the tail end of winter. Of course, some days you would drive more to get to a free campground and some days you would like where you are so much that you would stay for a while and need to catch up. If you did your driving in the morning and stopped during the sunniest part of the day and put out a couple of extra solar panels you could put 5 or 6 KW in the battery. I think you could get enough free electrons to meet all your needs but if you started to run short there are a lot of free level 2 chargers around.

    • larry kaiser

      Member
      August 4, 2022 at 5:42 am

      The smaller electric heaters use 750 watts at the low setting. Rather than heating the entire inside of an Aptera the electric throw or blanket would use a tenth of that amount of power. If the reduced winter range of the vehicle would be a problem you can cover up with the blanket while driving.That and the heated seat plus enough defrost for safety would amount to much less power draw than heating the entire inside of the vehicle to 72F

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