Perhaps a idea to increase prices for future orders?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Perhaps a idea to increase prices for future orders?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Perhaps a idea to increase prices for future orders?

  • Perhaps a idea to increase prices for future orders?

  • Konijnerd the Great

    Member
    March 7, 2022 at 5:39 am

    I am a bit worried about the price of Aptera, everything’s cheap. I think Aptera calculated things a bit too optimistically.

    Perhaps it is a idea to increase prices by a amount to calculate in inflation and expensive parts?

    This could work out well, instead of asking everyone who pre-ordered to pay more, which would damage the company, disappoint customers etc.

  • BigSky Country

    Member
    March 7, 2022 at 6:50 am

    I think the main reason it is cheaper is that it is not a car and there is a minimalistic aspect to the design. Said another way, you aren’t getting much in terms of an overall vehicle which I thinks fits well with the whole concept.

    Inevitably, the cost will go up. We’ve gotten 2020 pricing here and there are a lot of unknowns. (Inflation, design changes, maybe new features, etc.) I would not assume they have low balled it unless the costs come back with huge markups (like Rivian did). I’m sure these guys know that there would be a falling out if the price got jacked up into a new stratosphere. They can’t afford that with all the other options for EVs out there. I can get a 4 seat EV with a 60+kwh battery for $40k vs. the $35k in my reservation. Of course, I can go further on it, but I’m not paying a premium (I’m paying in sacrifice for a 2 seater). The affordability with its simplistic design opens entry into the market that is a competitive advantage.

    • Konijnerd the Great

      Member
      March 7, 2022 at 8:44 am

      While that may be true, they are adding a second screen now, still need to pump the car full with tech gadgets and make sure that all works well, in order to get autopilot working good.

      You can come back with a argument that the second screen isn’t expensive etc….But everything together, plus then making hardware and software work all good together. It isn’t a easy task, neither a cheap one.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        March 7, 2022 at 9:01 am

        The alpha design had interior screens on the left and right for the cameras. they replaced both of these with the one behind the yoke in the render. It might be slightly larger but this saves labor aswell. This saved a screen and 1/3rd of a wheel.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    March 7, 2022 at 6:56 am

    One way they might be able to handle the cost increases is by reducing the ranges of each tier. Suppose the 1000 mile version was 750 instead and the 600 mile is 450, the 400 mile version was 300 and the 250 was 200. I’ve ordered the 600 mile variant, if it was dropped to 450 then I’d probably opt to upgrade to the 750. That would be a price increase for me but with an extra benefit. If price was my driving factor then I’d stay with the 450 and justify it to myself by saying that 450 was still better than a Tesla Model S LR.

    • Konijnerd the Great

      Member
      March 7, 2022 at 8:45 am

      That could be a option to do yes. The cells that degrade over time are replaced by other cells to keep the range true, but this takes quite some years, so users could opt to have the full range.

      But I, and others, would be very unhappy if this would arrive on our pre-orders.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        March 7, 2022 at 9:07 am

        The marque (and rather silly) 1000 mile range is a huge marketing feature. It really surprised me when they said the 1000 mile was the last battery line to ramp since even a small number of these (ie paradigm+ preorders only) in the wild would be huge in generating buzz. While personally I am fine with less range (especially if LFP based so you can more aggressively use the full battery) but I think this removes part of the vehicles identity.

        If people keep pushing for paint I could definitely see that being an option or a justifiable price hike. Removal of options (making them mandatory and baked into an increased base price) for things like the solar hood and maybe safetypilot would reduce variation and cost to manufacture.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    March 7, 2022 at 10:24 am

    Unless they were incredibly conservative when they did their pricing they will have to do some price adjustment. Aside from reducing battery sizes I don’t see what options they would have to mitigate the cost increases that the industry has seen in the last year, the car is very basic so there isn’t anything that could be de-contented. Aptera can’t sell cars at a loss, they don’t have any buffer in the bank to allow that. The best that they will be able to do is be transparent about their costs, try to keep price rises to a minimum for existing reservation holders and cut into the profit that they will generate per car but not so much as to create a loss.

    Rivian massively mishandled the situation by dumping huge price increases on their reservation holders with no warning and no explanation. Rivian had a giant IPO which raised billions of dollars, this has given them a buffer to allow them to walk back the price increase for existing reservation holders but it’s going to cost them $900B. It also might have put them in serious legal jeopardy, there is a lawsuit from a fired executive which claims that they knew that the price increase was going to happen before the IPO and that they withheld the information until the IPO was done.

    Tesla raised prices by about $10K last year but they used the boiled frog approach, i.e. they raised the prices by $1K a pop once or twice a month until they got to the current level. When you raise the temperature of the pot gradually the frog doesn’t jump out, he dances around trying to get comfortable until he dies. Tesla did that, people continued to order Tesla’s happy that the someone next week was going to pay more.

    If Aptera is going to raise prices they need to take a similar approach. Gradually raise the reservation price for new reservations and hold the line as best they can for older reservations but not to the point where they will lose money.

    One optimistic note, it’s possible that the prices are realistic. I have a 60KWh AWD reserved at $39K. The Bolt with the same sized battery was selling for $31K before they caught fire and Chevy halted production. The $8K spread between the Aptera and the Bolt gives me hope that they won’t have a Rivian level surprise for us.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    March 8, 2022 at 1:21 pm

    Elon doesn’t think anyone should get the 600 / 1000 mile version… Can’t say I really disagree.

    The Aptera can make 400 miles happen with half the weight / batteries / price of essentially any other option available in North America. I hope the price holds but the company can’t bankrupt itself to do it.

    PS: For anyone concerned about vinyl wrap longevity apparently regularly using 303 UV spray (every 2-3 weeks) should really extend the life. Even if its $3000 every 5 years to rewrap that’s not much different than what is saved in basic maintenance on an ICE car.

    • Scott Price

      Member
      March 8, 2022 at 1:44 pm

      Curtis, regarding your PS: I respectfully disagree regarding the suggestion that it is a solution to force people to do extra maintenance every 2-3 weeks that they do not need to do for the vast majority of vehicles in the world. Clumsily Band-aiding an issue does not build a brand or following. Also, justifying an unfortunate financial / design decision by saying that the EV provides other offsetting cost benefits then basically says that the holistic whole of the overall vehicle provides no financial benefit in comparison to an ICE vehicle. Wraps/paint has no direct correlation to ICE/EV. Let’s make and market the Aptera as great where it shines and not take clear steps backwards in areas that are just simple rudimentary baselines everywhere else (and that are independent of all the great new features of the Aptera as a multi-generational, long range, efficient, solar EV that is also ideally low maintenance).

      • John Malcom

        Member
        March 8, 2022 at 3:55 pm

        Scott, Curtis is not suggesting forcing anybody to do anything. He took the time to do research on a topic and reported the results for those that had an interest in extending the life of wraps should that be the final choice of an exterior finish. You are certainly entitled to your opinion even if I’ll informed and a little abrasive. I maintain the finish on my car weekly and use what ever products get the best results. I would certainly use the product Curtis suggested, and would not consider it an imposition or being forced because the finish of the vehicle I selected was a wrap

        • Scott Price

          Member
          March 8, 2022 at 6:10 pm

          John, your (ironically abrasive) response is heard.

          You and I are both avid supporters of Aptera and we both have the best of intentions for Aptera in all of our forum communications, even if we rarely ever agree since we approach our support from very different ends of a spectrum. To keep the decorum level high, I will respond to your commentary but not expand beyond it:

          1) Understood that Curtis was presenting information. When this type of information is presented, I am providing a counterpoint (this is a discussion forum) so that people do not feel as though this is a “solution”. You may feel it is a solution with your n=1 anecdote that you personally like to spend your time weekly pampering your car. So be it for yourself personally.

          2) It is a fact, not an opinion, that the vast majority of vehicles in the world do not require their owners to manually apply 303 Protectant over the exteriors of their cars every 2-3 weeks. If you find that fact threatening in some way, then there is nothing I can do about that.

          3) My inputs are not “ill-informed”. I encourage you to not make personally directed derogatory statements in the future. I maintain the reasoned perspective and opinion that the Aptera is so unusual that it will need to not take fundamental steps backward in some important areas if it is to gain traction with a large enough population of customers and move the Aptera movement forward. We need to remove customer decision roadblocks, not create them, especially when those roadblocks are readily avoidable plus are independent of the primary fundamentals that make the Aptera great.

          Curtis, I have always respected and appreciated your forum inputs. Thank you for sharing this additional information which also provided an opportunity to respond. I was not glib when I said to you “I respectfully disagree”. I stand by the inputs I shared for discussion, though I certainly meant you no disrespect by providing my counterpoint considerations.

          • John Malcom

            Member
            March 8, 2022 at 7:03 pm

            My response was meant to be on par with your post counter of Curtis so ironically abrasive as well

            I will accept your comment on a sample of one. It is legitimate as it only represents my personal habits.

            The part I feel was out of line was strongly implying that Curtis was suggesting that owners were “forced”to use a product on their vehicle every three weeks because they have a wrap finish when the “Rest of the world” need not do that. Or another interpretation, that because Aptera comes with a wrapped exterior, they will be forced to take extraordinary measures to maintain the finish where others in the “World” do not.

            You also implied that wraps were an “Unfortunate financial/design decision” I assume your personal opinion and is also a n=1

            • Curtis Cibinel

              Member
              March 8, 2022 at 8:51 pm

              Thanks John.

              I understand the frustrations some are having with vinyl ; it’s an uncommon but understandable design compromise given the companies micro factory concept. Paint shops especially in California are insanely expensive. Personally I’ll probably plan to paint the vehicle red after the factory wrap degrades. In my case given parking in a garage I’ll probably get 10 years out of the original wrap; getting the best out of the solar will cut this life way down but the sprays should help.

              No other evs in North America can get close to matching the cost / performance of the Aptera; this is what’s important to me as I want an ev sports car I can afford (I actually don’t care about solar). Future designs like the sedan will have different pros/cons.

            • Scott Price

              Member
              March 9, 2022 at 8:32 am

              John, the “rest of the world” (I actually said “vast majority of vehicles in the world”) refers to the obvious fact that the vast majority of vehicles throughout the world are painted and their vehicle manufacturers do not “force” their vehicle owners to even have to consider the ongoing frequent extra maintenance that was suggested or the additional lifecycle owner costs that were recognized.

              The number of new vehicles produced with vinyl wraps practically amounts to a rounding error in comparison. The vast majority of vehicles, vehicle manufacturers, and vehicle owners throughout the entire world is not n=1, and the opinion that wraps are undesirable does not just come from n=1 me.

              Sorry if you misinterpreted something in my wording or intent, though I continue to stand by the validity of my comments.

              Aptera does many things differently to achieve a great benefit. However, this specific example of being different takes a step backwards in terms of quality, maintenance, lifecycle owner costs, accumulating manufacture / material / process waste, and potential brand impact. Fortunately, to Aptera’s credit, the early vinyl wraps decision is supposedly under review by the Aptera team and ideally will be adjusted, TBD.

              Hopefully, that helps illuminate and we can move on from this sub-thread, even if you don’t agree. Thanks.

    • V Pilot

      Member
      March 8, 2022 at 2:08 pm

      The 40kW battery will not get you 400mi on a single charge without adversely affecting the battery. Approx. 240mi at the 20% minimum to the 80% maximum charge state.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        March 8, 2022 at 5:05 pm

        One of the many reasons I hope we see LFP for the shorter range versions eventually. Degradation is mostly overrated if you look at Teslas. Personally I don’t drive so far at once that this is a big issue but most EVs have operated this way. Now depending who you ask 10-90% might be completely fine for a few times per month.

        • V Pilot

          Member
          March 8, 2022 at 5:25 pm

          Agreed.

        • Konijnerd the Great

          Member
          March 8, 2022 at 8:58 pm

          You can charge every day to 100%, as long as you then use it every day. Dont let a ev stand and do nothing with 100%. Thats the thing that make battery degrade.

          • Curtis Cibinel

            Member
            March 8, 2022 at 9:52 pm

            So if you set it to charge to 100% because you plan on a long trip and cancel last second what’s the play? Turn on the ac for like 10+ hours to discharge a bit?

            • Konijnerd the Great

              Member
              March 9, 2022 at 8:25 am

              Yes, if you then let it stand there for a while, its probably better to purposely drain the battery for a bit. Note that you then also move towards a charge cycle by draining on purpose, so the best is of course to not make that mistake. But in reality you’d probably use the aptera sooner then later, for small stuff.

    • Benjamin Dreidel

      Member
      March 9, 2022 at 5:18 am

      I keep going back and forth between the 40kwh and the 60kwh battery. Not because I need the 600 mile range, though. The 60kwh battery will give me plenty of range while still letting me keep the battery level lower, so that I can have room in the battery to always use the solar charging and to maximize long term battery health. I rarely charge my cell phones >80% for the long term battery health and that has worked wonderfully.

      • Konijnerd the Great

        Member
        March 9, 2022 at 8:29 am

        Weird how this went into a battery topic haha.

        I would do the 600 miles then, because there are many factors that eat away from the range. Winter, wind against you, lots of heat with ac on, driving faster then 60 miles also makes it go quickly down. With winter and driving like 70 miles per hour, youre probably already looking at 350 real miles already with the 600 pack.

  • David Marlow

    Member
    March 13, 2022 at 12:52 pm

    As an Aptera ambassador and Investor, I want to see Aptera be very successful. As the quality and engineering has improved and overall inflation has increased costs have gone up. I know that they are trying very hard to keep costs down, however realities will require adjustments to be made.

    The world needs Aptera now!

    • George Hughes

      Member
      March 13, 2022 at 2:10 pm

      You’re right, we need Aptera now.

      My position in favor of wraps is based on Aptera’s use of ultra light -weight, strong, safe and impervious to rust covered with a stylish vinyl wrap to begin.

      I can’t imagine the discovery of 2DPA-1 plastic will not have been incorporated as new ‘bulletproof’ wrap or wrap coating application by the time my Aptera needs a change in its exterior finish. I’ll likely delay replacement until the wrap starts flagging as that is when its condition affects the efficiency by increasing turbulence and drag.

      If Aptera were made from steel, like 99.5% of all other vehicles, I’d be 100% in favor of painting it today. But then if it were made of steel like all the other cars, frankly, I wouldn’t be here.

      BTW: Left to my natural inclinations, I’ll share another way to protect one’s vehicle finish from undue UV rays:

      • John Malcom

        Member
        March 13, 2022 at 3:24 pm

        I strongly agree!

        Hmmmm very creative approach to protection from UV. Since you thought of it, I will let you try It first. Let me know how it works out.

    • Konijnerd the Great

      Member
      March 13, 2022 at 10:20 pm

      Which is why now could be a good option to think about increasing prices. So people who pre-ordered do not have to pay more.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        March 13, 2022 at 11:33 pm

        I would expect that if prices go up it will be for all vehicles. There are 17,000+ reservations. It would not be reasonable for Aptera to eat the lower price in case of a price increase for that many vehicles. It will be a good value at any reasonable price. Aptera will do its best to keep pricing reasonable

  • Guy SKEER

    Member
    March 15, 2022 at 8:17 am

    I want Aptera to be a Profitable and CONTINUING Concern. I look Forward with Great and Joyous Anticipation to My First one, and Want to be a part, However Small, of the Follow-On Models.

    • GLENN ZAJIC

      Member
      March 15, 2022 at 10:36 am

      Me too! I will need a truck and want a sedan, just depends on their designs. Also might need to get the two wheel drive for my daughter as my all wheel drive may be too much power under a kids control (or lack thereof).

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    March 15, 2022 at 11:23 pm

    Video by Aptera Owners Club on this topic

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvr-tYH8Hhc

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    March 15, 2022 at 11:27 pm

    7.8% and no signs of stopping

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