Petition – Tesla Superchargers Standard

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Petition – Tesla Superchargers Standard

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Petition – Tesla Superchargers Standard

  • Petition – Tesla Superchargers Standard

     Benjamin Coombs updated 1 month, 1 week ago 61 Members · 104 Posts
  • Quincy

    Administrator
    July 12, 2022 at 6:14 pm

    While electric vehicle technology has rapidly advanced, the charging standard in the U.S. has not. CCS and SAE J1772, the US’s common standards, are clunky, cumbersome, and expensive.

    At Aptera, we believe the U.S. government should adopt Tesla’s Supercharger Technology as the standard for ALL EV charging in the U.S.

    With the best charging experience for drivers and less expensive installation costs, our country could begin expanding our charging infrastructure at a much-reduced cost, saving $4 billion dollars on projected infrastructure spending through 2027.

    Read more about why we think Tesla’s charging standards are good for EVs and the U.S. and sign our petition if you agree here → https://bit.ly/3PgrC16

    • This discussion was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  bbelcamino.
  • Riley …

    Member
    July 12, 2022 at 7:29 pm

    Signed, completely agree tesla connector is superior.

  • Scott

    Member
    July 12, 2022 at 8:13 pm

    Signed, and thanks for being bold on this.

    I recommend that you prepare some well structured talking points regarding how this recommendation will sync (or not) with international standards. Making the US an island in a world of other standard(s) is a consideration. It could become analogous to the US not using the metric system while almost all other countries (except Myanmar and Liberia) do. Just food for thought since it will be a concern that you will need to proactively address to help this proposal gain more traction. Perhaps adapters are the solution, but nonetheless a clearly articulated plan around this aspect should be part of the proposal.

  • Paul Carlucci

    Member
    July 12, 2022 at 8:52 pm

    The Ioniq 5/EV6/GV60 trio currently charge at a higher max rate than the Tesla plug will allow. So does the Taycan, Hummer, Lucid, and in fact most of the industry will be on 800v by 2025. Meanwhile the Tesla plug can’t do 800v without a new physical design featuring DC pins spaced further apart.

    In other words, standardizing on the Tesla plug will cause the industry to regress and then remain held back. Awesome right?

    There’s zero chance of this happening, the money’s already been handed to the states for CCS, the ship has sailed. Stop wasting your time advocating for this.

    • Jonathan Reni

      Member
      July 14, 2022 at 8:37 am

      I fully agree. What is the point of forcing standardization? Competition benefits the consumer. Also, I believe the Ford Lightning does VTH (Vehicle to home) via the charging plug. I dont think Tesla does this on any models as yet, and I dont know if their plug is capable of it. I would love to have more than just 110 outlets on the Aptera. It would be amazing to have proper vehicle to home via the charging plug. Additionally, Tesla is already incentivised via Govt grants to open up their supercharger network and I believe they have already announced this. So why do we need their plug if a simple adapter will allow Aptera owners to charge at Tesla superchargers?

      • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  Jonathan Reni.
  • James Gatan

    Member
    July 12, 2022 at 10:25 pm

    Signed & shared.

  • Dan Stevens

    Member
    July 12, 2022 at 10:43 pm

    As far as I know, the Tesla ‘plug’ is patented by Tesla and while they will allow others to use it, they have very strange and strict requirements on the usage. Are they willing to forego their claim to the plug? If not, then why would we want it as a standard?

    As an investor in Aptera, I would not want to give up the rights to enforce Aptera’s patents just to use a slightly more convenient plug.

    • Rashid Clark

      Member
      July 14, 2022 at 12:25 pm

      Excellent point.

      For those who are curious, here is Tesla’s statement on the use of their charger: https://www.tesla.com/legal/additional-resources#patent-pledge
      The issue is their definition of “acting in good faith”. It can be interpreted as meaning that Aptera would not be able to enforce any of its electric-vehicle patents, regardless of if it relates to the charger or not.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    July 12, 2022 at 10:56 pm

    Unfortunately despite tesla plugs being a better standard (except for extremely high power trucks) the industry and government have chosen Ccs1 in North America; in Canada it is already about 1 to 1 in terms of stalls. Beta was also superior to vhs. The writing is on the wall; hopefully Aptera will either switch to ccs (especially ccs2 for europe) or work out a very good deal with tesla for tesla equivalent supercharger network access/price. Compatibility with the tesla to ccs adapter would also be important long term. Ccs is not the best connector but it is “good enough”; changing the industry (outside tesla) and the relatively hostile government’s minds isn’t realistic.

  • John LaRocque

    Member
    July 12, 2022 at 11:41 pm

    I don’t think this is the best option. Even if the physical connector is free to use and superior in terms of UX, depending on Tesla for firmware and Supercharger access is an abrupt departure from Aptera’s past right-to-repair stance and will be a handicap in the long run – the reality is that CCS is already the standard in North America.

    Aptera has a niche market of engineers, enthusiasts, and nerds – people who like to tinker and who are looking far ahead to a better future. I worry that choosing a port with short term charger network and marketing advantages will risk alienating part of that group.

    • LoveAptera YokeDealbreaker

      Member
      September 7, 2022 at 6:48 am

      I agree, I believe Tesla will be an important but very short blip in history as the legacy vehicle manufacturers catch up and zoom past them, while maintaining respectful and tangible customer service.

  • Jeff

    Member
    July 13, 2022 at 12:10 am

    Sure, there’s plenty to like about Tesla’s connector and DC charging network, but this is silly. Honestly Idk wtf Aptera is trying to doing here. But some possibilities that come to mind:

    1. They’re delusional and actually think the US gov’t would/could actually force a switch from CCS to Tesla connectors. (Unlikely)

    2. This is some weird strategy to try to butter up Elon by publicly lavishly praising the Tesla connector in hopes he’ll allow Apteras to use the existing* Supercharger network chargers. (Long shot)

    3. This is just hand-waving to get some social media attention. (Most likely)

    4. This sideshow helps give them an excuse for not having figured out something as basic as what charge port they’re going to use when they’re only 6 months away from when they’re supposed to start deliveries. (Possibly)

    5. They’re so concerned that Aptera reservation holders will be disappointed by a CCS port is instead of a Tesla port (as shown on the marketing vehicles) that they felt they needed to do this to be able to say “Well, we tried our best to make a Tesla port work, but the dang guvmint refused to listen to our petition and help make that possible!”

    (*As opposed to the hypothetical future Superchargers that will have CCS connectors/adapters and be open to non-Teslas and will be widely installed by god-knows-when.)

    • Paul Carlucci

      Member
      July 13, 2022 at 3:37 am

      The notion of using the Tesla plug is probably the one thing about Aptera that’s gotten it the most play in the media, certainly the most lately. This isn’t going anywhere, standards confusion hurts the industry and EV adoption as a whole, but hey it gets them free coverage so I kinda get it from a business perspective. It’s folly to ignore that this handwaving for essentially free coverage is happening against the backdrop of being in the midst of trying to secure institutional investment. I don’t appreciate the dishonestly as it doesn’t look good on them.

    • Andrew Buster

      Member
      August 15, 2022 at 9:27 am

      Agreed. They’re tilting at windmills. maybe they can go back in time by 10 years and make it happen.

      I agree that the CCS connectors are bulkier than Tesla’s DC charger. Primarily because CCS bundles the AC and DC chargers into one connector, while Tesla has two connectors. it may also be harder to ‘fit’ a CC1 port on the Aptera body. but I can’t imagine that they are any more expensive.

      Honestly this makes them look very amateurish.

  • Jeff

    Member
    July 13, 2022 at 12:33 am

    Side note: did the image on the Change.org petition comparing sizes of the CCS, J1772, and Tesla connectors really have to be made so wildly inaccurate to make the Tesla connector look way smaller than it actually is?

    The J1772 and CCS connectors are both shown ~40% bigger comparatively than they actually are in real life

    Dishonesty is not a good look for any company.

    • LoveAptera YokeDealbreaker

      Member
      September 7, 2022 at 6:56 am

      After measuring the physical connectors, then the connectors on the screen, the Tesla picture is indeed 22% smaller than actual, but not 40%. Good catch.

  • Steven G. Bueche

    Member
    July 13, 2022 at 3:36 am

    Done. I like the Tesla plug. It’s small and works just fine from the house. We’ll get plenty of charge from home to fit the majority of users.

  • Jeffrey Parker

    Member
    July 13, 2022 at 6:45 am

    NO, I will not sign. Aptera needs to get on board with the rest of the US auto market and the European market and use J1772 type 1/2 and CCS type 1/2.

    Any reduction of proprietary items is best. I don’t want to be beholden to a company or use an adapter. There are myriad reasons why Tesla is adding CCS to their chargers. A major one is that CCS can deliver more energy to a vehicle that can accept it (looking at Cybertruck) and can also server a wider range of vehicles (thus a wider market for revenue)

    Video from TechnologyConnections about DCFC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZOuz_laH9I

    • Markus Schmid

      Member
      July 14, 2022 at 2:01 pm

      Remember the good ol’ RS-232 cables with DB25 and DB9 connectors?

      They are gone and have been replaced by USB even without regulatory intervention. Same will hopefully happen with J1772 and CSS vs. Tesla plug, worldwide.

      If the petition helps, good so, I signed it. Hopefully it counts being a Swiss resident and citizen, LOL.

      • john ockert

        Member
        July 17, 2022 at 6:45 pm

        USB is Universal Serial Bus, Tesla’s connector is anything but universal and is not a standard because the U.S already has a standard CCS. Please remember that usb had and still has several different connectors. USB C for the win. Apple has the lighting port, for now, and Tesla has their connector, for now. What’s happening in Europe will happen here. DB9 doing rs232 is still around in industrial applications.

    • john ockert

      Member
      July 17, 2022 at 6:39 pm

      so true and love that video

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    July 13, 2022 at 7:51 am

    I signed but I don’t like the idea of government mandates, the market should figure these thing out.

    Has Aptera made a deal with Tesla to use their plug? Congress can’t fix this for them, if they want to use Tesla’s connector then they have to negotiate with Tesla and get a license for the connector and a deal to use the Supercharger network.

    • John Voules

      Member
      July 13, 2022 at 9:08 am

      Sometimes the market needs a little push. If we base everything in life by what the market does, many things would not get done and the direction we go may not be for the best.

    • Philip Sandiford

      Member
      July 13, 2022 at 9:45 am

      This is just a quibble I have with a few voiced opinions: I don’t believe this is a government mandate unless you are a state applying for federal highway funds to roll out an EV network. It is a (proposed) standard, not a mandate. You can make your EV with a mini-DIN connector if you want, just don’t ask Uncle Sugar for a piece of that sweet taxpayer pie for your charging stations.

  • Philip Sandiford

    Member
    July 13, 2022 at 9:38 am

    Tesla plug in my car: Yes.

    Tesla plug as the US standard: I think it would be a mistake.

  • Tyler Fisher

    Member
    July 13, 2022 at 1:56 pm

    No thanks. the world needs one standard to simplify our sustainable energy transition. This would only further complicate it, and probably even hinder it.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      July 13, 2022 at 2:27 pm

      The world doesn’t have one standard. CCS1 and CCS2 are different connectors driven by the fact that Europe and North America have different AC standards. China uses GB/T and Japan uses CHADeMo. CCS1 is a garbage standard, they defined it after Tesla had created their connector so there was no excuse for doing as bad a job as they did. Maybe someday they will create a CCS3 which is better than Tesla’s plug and when they do that they could try for a universal standard but today there is no such thing as a world standard.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        July 13, 2022 at 3:19 pm

        The J1772 standard for AC charging was defined first and is almost identical in size to the tesla plug (despite the image in the petition). When they needed to add functionality for DCFC they couldn’t just repurpose pins with multiple vendors already implementing the existing standard; great way to fry something. Tesla had the benefit of hindsight and could expand on the standard with an optimal design because they controlled all devices involved. The CCS1 designers had to add DC without breaking support for the existing J1772 standard and were far more aggressive in future proofing the design. This is why CCS can handle 800V and higher power without arcing since it’s DC pins were overengineered. Neither engineering team was incompetent. CCS plugs can be pushed to higher power levels which provides an advantage for large vehicles (ie Trucks/SUVs) while the Tesla plug is basically approaching its practical engineering limits (it is already water cooling the connector).

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        July 13, 2022 at 3:31 pm

        I know you are expressing your personal opinion as a non-electrical engineer when you claim CCS1 is a garbage standard. The standard committee that approved the CCS1 standard probably did not consider your view. Regardless of your biased view, CCS1 is a standard as opposed to the Tesla architecture and the standard that will be used in the U.S. As H.G. Wells said “Adapt or perish”

        • Tim Polen

          Member
          July 14, 2022 at 12:06 pm

          “Adapt or perish.” So, which of my vehicles gets to live on? One has CHAdeMO, one has CCS, and one has Tesla. Of the three, the Tesla is the only one I feel comfortable enough to road trip with family. I don’t trust that the lone CCS charger in the middle of nowhere is going to work, and the scores on PlugShare back that up.

      • Hans Roes

        Member
        September 4, 2022 at 2:37 pm

        And besides the connector, CCS1 and CCS2 are identical. That’s the nice thing about the standard. It allows DC fast charging in combination with both Type 1 and Type 2 connectors, remaining backwards compatible. CCS is becoming the standard in most of the world and is adopted and supported by most manufacturers. It’s the closest we have to a universal standard.

        And no CCS was defined and demonstrated before Tesla showed the world what they had designed.

  • Jonah Jorgenson

    Member
    July 13, 2022 at 3:46 pm

    Practically speaking, if every one of the 2x,xxx reservation holders signed this document it would make zero difference as the total population of Aptera Enthusiasts is a drop in the bucket and has no lobbying power.

    In principle, I am supportive of common standards, which in this case, means supporting CCS1 for Apterae. The minor inconvenience of the CCS1 plug vs. the Aptera plug is so far down in the nits it would be hard to see it with an electron microscope. I, like Chris, and others on the forum, drive a Tesla and use the Tesla plug. No particular loyalty to an EV plug. Many more important things to apply my worrying cycles to.

    I will charge my Aptera at work if it needs it. Most likely won’t with the full solar package out in the FL sun and a far less then a 40 mi round trip commute. When I travel I will charge where ever there is a compatible charger/plug when needed.

    • Philip Sandiford

      Member
      July 13, 2022 at 6:05 pm

      Yup. What he said.

      If Aptera has optimized the tail so only a Tesla plug is small enough, okay~whatever. I can live with it.

      As a National standard? Not so much. I really think that is betting the US EV industry future on the Betamax horse.

      • Paul Carlucci

        Member
        July 13, 2022 at 6:35 pm

        If Aptera has optimized the tail so only a Tesla plug is small enough then they’re gonna real a hard time selling any outside of North America. Either that or port on the production version of the car the vehicle goes somewhere else such as the nose and this exercise is simply a lot of needless Sturm und Drang.

        In my opinion the tail is possibly the least convenient location for the port. Approximately zero EVs in the market have it there and for good reason.

        • Curtis Cibinel

          Member
          July 13, 2022 at 10:44 pm

          Yes but the front is very dumb; any low speed fender bender and now you can’t charge. Literally anywhere else is fine with me. Since the aptera tail is higher than a normal bumper it would be safe unless your hit by a jacked up truck.

          Regarding CCS vs the tesla plug this twitter interaction makes me concerned that Aptera hasn’t worked out a deal for supercharger access yet. Given only 1 network uses the tesla plug this would be kinda essential.

          • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  Curtis Cibinel. Reason: Added twitter details
          • Paul Carlucci

            Member
            July 14, 2022 at 5:27 am

            That’s probably why a good percentage of EVs use the front quarter panel just ahead of the A pillar. It’s pretty decent location for convenience, it’s a good compromise if you park front or back first, it’s fairly close to where the inverter is anyway, but first and foremost you’re unlikely to have a minor collision in that spot. If you get hit at that location there’s a solid chance the car is totaled anyway.

            Unfortunately because of the front wheel sticking out that’s a bit of a bad location on an Aptera, especially if you any kind of reduced physical capacity. Meanwhile the tip of the nose is also quite low and somebody went and covered top surface of the nose with panels.

            Behind the driver door is probably a decent location, perhaps hidden beneath the logo. It’s a well protected location, still a decent compromise regardless of which way you pull in, and you can walk right up to it without having to lean over a wheel pant. Considering that’s where state of charge lights are located anyway that actually makes a lot of sense. While the cable routing isn’t the shortest (assuming the inverter and supporting electronics are in the nose) at least it’s a good chunk shorter than coming in from the tail.

            • Curtis Cibinel

              Member
              July 15, 2022 at 10:09 am

              Tesla supercharge cables are about 3 feet long and positioned in the back left of the stall. This is partially due to the engineering challenges or wanting a small connector/cable. In europe they used similarly short lengths and it is a reason that with the networking opening other vehicles park sideways. I doubt either the charge indicator location or license plate will be close enough for this while parking squarely in the spaces. They will either need to do something integrated with the back light (a very different design), place it at the front-right infront of the passenger door or provide a silly extension cable.

  • Chris Hale

    Member
    July 14, 2022 at 8:37 am

    I am completely clueless about the electrical engineering that goes into charging, charge ports etc. However, I have been reading articles regarding the general state of charging stations across the U.S. and the news is not good. These companies such as EA and Charge port are building a lot of charging stations but they are not reliable and are very cumbersome to connect to the software required to get them to work. They estimate that only 60% to 70% of these chargers work, and there is no infrastructure in place to keep them running. Tesla’s chargers on the other hand are more reliable and they have the infrastructure to keep them running. This may be the reason that Aptera is wanting to use Tesla’s charge port design. They may be looking more at the near future rather than the distant future. The only time that I would need to use a DC fast charger is if I am going on a long trip. Right now I would rather be driving a Tesla across the country than any other brand based on the number of working fast chargers. So, if Aptera can use Tesla’s charging port design and have access to Tesla’s superchargers it is a win/ win situation. It should also be noted that Tesla vehicles can use any other charging network in the country that uses a CCS charging port, which is most of them. This gives you as many options as possible to charge your vehicle.

    • Paul Carlucci

      Member
      July 14, 2022 at 10:53 am

      “This gives you as many options as possible to charge your vehicle.”

      Except that isn’t what Aptera is proposing here. Give it another read:

      “At Aptera, we believe the U.S. government should adopt Tesla’s Supercharger Technology as the standard for ALL EV charging in the U.S.”

      All. They even used caps in case”all” might have slipped by.

      This petition wants the US government to kill both CCS and J1772 and mandate Tesla proprietary as the standard. If you look at just CCS alone there will be more CCS charger ports in the US by the end of the year. GM this morning just announced putting in EVgo CCS at 80% of all the Pilot/Flying J locations across the US. That’s just one deal and still represents a minority of the CCS chargers GM is slinging. And that’s just GM, merely once of many, many companies pushing CCS in the US in addition to the Federal government.


      But wait, we’re not done here because it gets even more short-sighted as Aptera has proposed nixing J1772 as well. They did say ALL didn’t they? The number of existing public J1772 EVSEs out there alone is a multiple of the entire current public Tesla installed US footprint. Do they go in the trash or do we all get free adapters in the mail like they’re at home Covid tests?


      So what’s happening here is that Aptera is bravely proposing the government kill 80% of existing DC chargers and EVSEs out there because a 110mm tall connector won’t fit behind a 105mm license plate (Minnesota’s is 5mm taller, unless they’re gonna ban that state). That’s awesome guys, good thinking there. Maybe try lowering the port slightly or make that spot ever so slightly taller. While you’re at it that port probably shouldn’t go right by the camera in the first place because induction is a thing, the back of the car was a goofy place to gas up in the 70s and no EVs do it that way since it’s quite possibly the least practical place to stick a port.

      But I digress, a 5mm difference, that’s it. Seriously, that’s what they’re fighting to junk billions of dollars of equipment over.

      • Y Z

        Member
        July 14, 2022 at 11:32 am

        Great points and breakdown paul

      • Tim Polen

        Member
        July 14, 2022 at 12:24 pm

        Tesla’s Level 1 and level 2 charging use J1772 signaling. Every Tesla sold except 2008-2011 Roadster come with an adapter to convert J1772 to Tesla. This adapter has no circuitry in it; it’s purely a physical adapter.

        Changing the official standard doesn’t mean scrapping all existing hardware. It just means that grants, subsidies, or sponsorships put in Tesla charging equipment. Anybody can go to Tesla’s website and buy this adapter right now.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        July 14, 2022 at 12:28 pm

        Large inefficient vehicles like trucks with ever growing packs will need the engineering headroom CCS provides. This could be essential for reasonable charge times with 150+ kwh packs. Remember the standard needs to serve everyone not just Aptera.

        Here in canada the number of CCS and tesla supercharger stalls (not sites) is already roughly at parity and many Tesla owners are trying to get the adapter since entire regions are unserved by Tesla (ie northern BC/Alberta, Yukon and New Found Land). In the states CCS has major gaps in The Dakotas, Wyoming and Montana

        AC charging is trivial since converting between J1772 (in either direction) and the tesla plug with an inexpensive adapter. For DC charging I hope that Aptera ensures their hardware will allow for CCS adapters (although they are pricy) to be used (made standard for Tesla in 2020 and apparently can be purchased as a retrofit).

        The lack of reliability of CCS chargers has little to do with the physical plug and more to do with inadequate maintenance and poor software.

        I think the big issue is the petition set the bar too high. If they had argued the Tesla plus is a valid standard and should be eligible for federal grants then it would have had atleast a small chance of success but trying to dictate the industries direction and obsolete tens of thousands of CCS1 and J1772 chargers is doomed to failure. The Tesla plug is not the correct choice for very large EVs with 800V architectures and the momentum is in favor of CCS.

    • Tim Polen

      Member
      July 14, 2022 at 12:44 pm

      And that’s why this petition exists. Nobody can touch the Supercharger network for reliability and placement. I love my Bolt, but I don’t think I’d take family on a road trip in it just because of low charger reliability.

  • Patrick Liebknecht

    Member
    July 14, 2022 at 9:41 am

    Great I signed the petition and now I’m getting spammed by change.org with emails saying. Chris Anthony still needs me and I get more petitions to sign that I totally don’t agree with.

    • Markus Schmid

      Member
      July 14, 2022 at 2:07 pm

      Just unsubscribe and it will stop within maximum a day they say. It stopped immediately in my case.

  • Paul Carlucci

    Member
    July 14, 2022 at 1:24 pm

    Hey, one more gotcha… uhh will a Supercharger cable even reach the license plate area?

    Go look at some pictures of Supercharger cables. Notice anything? They’re short. They’re really short actually. One of the little advantages of the Tesla walled garden is that every Tesla has the port in kinda the same location. Superchargers run really high amperages on their cables and one of their optimizations is keeping that cable as short as possible by controlling how far that cable has to go. This is because longer it goes the thicker it has to be lest it heat up and catch fire. They’re of course already liquid cooled.

    For instances where the interface is behind the vehicle it might be fine, though that’s not a given since the cable mounting is offset to the driver’s side. But many Supercharger stations have the interface on the side and that’s likely a deal-killer. For those cases the cable is going to have to stretch out to the middle of the car and then still have enough slack to turn 90 degrees without kinking and restricting coolant flow. Maybe the Aptera will have to be partially hanging out of the stall, but it might still not reach at all.

    Aptera can’t put the port on the side behind the driver’s door because that’s entirely incompatible with the rear interface Superchargers while the side ones would be almost as iffy versus the tail port. Realistically Aptera would have to put the port in the same rear quarter panel location that Tesla uses to make this work all the time, but that’s quite impossible unless they abandon the fundamental design of the vehicle.

    An argument presented against CCS is that the cables are thicker. Sure, that’s true, but they have to be since they’re going further than Tesla has to. If there was some kind of mandate or standard that required the port be always in the same place then this wouldn’t be an issue, but for many vehicles that’s not ideal, and for some it’s quite impossible. The Aptera should be the poster child for the instance where it’s impossible.

    Perhaps we can just tote along some extender thing. It can’t be liquid cooled like the rest of the charger cable so remarkable thickness it is. Safely supplying 50kW at 400v works out to 125A. The ampacity chart for just 6 feet requires a 1/0 gauge cable which is a third of an inch in diameter. That’s then times two plus the control wires, ground, and insulation and cladding, yeah that’s an inch thick. If you don’t believe me then look at the Chademo adapter, but imagine that’s 6 feet long. Personally I think this adaptation and not worth the trade-off for a slim and aesthetically pleasing connector but I’m sure there are those who would argue otherwise.

    In any case something’s gotta give and it surely won’t be Tesla making all their cables longer and thicker just to accommodate Aptera.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      July 14, 2022 at 2:19 pm

      Great point. I see no practical location on the drivers side given the tail light and taper. Perhaps the tale light doesn’t need to wrap around quite soo far and it could be infront of it. The location beyond the driver door with the charge indicator would seem to also be too far for some superchargers. The only other option I see (without parking at stupid angles) would be to drive into the stall straight and put the port it Infront of the passenger door near the headlight bar (essentially the exact opposite of Tesla).

      • John Voules

        Member
        July 14, 2022 at 3:37 pm

        I like the idea of putting ahead of passenger door. I would be able to thread cable between wheel hood and body of the car…less of a tripping hazard in my home.

    • Quiviran

      Member
      July 15, 2022 at 9:52 am

      The Tesla charge port is in the rear rail light assembly and they back in or pull alongside the charging station. It looks like Aptera is putting the charge port behind the rear license plate. Looks like that would be very similar.

  • Michael Johnson

    Member
    July 14, 2022 at 4:54 pm

    Unless the Aptera’s Tesla connector supports vehicle-to-grid (V2G) or vehicle-to-load (V2L), I do not support the adoption of a Tesla connector.


    I have a Tesla Model 3, but have preordered a 100 kWh Aptera to replace the Model 3 with the aim of using the Aptera battery as a Powerwall-on-wheels for powering my home during a power outage. The ~US$50K price tag of a fully loaded Aptera is cheaper than installing the equivalent number of Tesla Powerwalls or other home battery backup solution.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  Michael Johnson. Reason: Spotted a grammar mistake
  • Matthew Wakefield

    Member
    July 14, 2022 at 5:19 pm

    While I agree the Tesla plug is superior to J1772 I don’t think it’s a great plug. Here in Australia J1772 died out, mainly due to its inability to to do 32A 3 phase 11kw charging. This is a sweet spot in cost and usability in 220-240v locations, and something Aptera should aim for in non US markets. In practice it is often 1/4 the speed of 50-75kw DC due to thermal constraints. Portable AC chargers that connect to a standard 3 phase plug are readily available. Especially useful in many places where industrial plugs are far more common than car chargers.

    The onboard chargers are only 12kg or so and would be well worth the small extra weight even if only available as an option.

    Tesla’s variant of the type 2 plug, with the ability to do mid DC via the L1 N plugs would also be ideal for Aptera outside America. DC Chargers for these are uncommon, it’s usually CCS2, but you would maintain standard type 2 experience most of the time, and need to use an adapter for CCS2. I expect DC charging to be rare, especially if you can do 11kw AC which are far more common and less congested, so the need for a small Tesla style type 2 to CCS2 would not be much of an imposition.

    I don’t see a way to get >500V and >350kw with a Tesla plug, and while Aptera will be OK with that, Ford, Rivian, Porche, Mercedes, VW etc will not want that limitation.

  • Paul Schultz

    Member
    July 14, 2022 at 6:37 pm

    Early reservation holder, investor, fan…. not signing this petition. Aptera, use your energy, time, and resources to get your product to market using current standards. This is not a trail for you to blaze… or worth it in my mind.

  • Thomas Davis

    Member
    July 14, 2022 at 10:23 pm

    Yes and Tesla is puttind the ccs plugs on their charging stations a well. This gives the tax payer money and also is a precursor to Tesla phasing out its current plug using the government money.

    • Carl Knapp Knapp

      Member
      July 20, 2022 at 9:17 am

      What makes you think Telsa will phase out their plug in favor of CCS. The reason for CCS and MCS is these plugs allow charging voltages above 400-volt which reduces cable size while increasing the complexity of the charger’s control. Tesla is doing this for a few reasons. The main reason is to obtain government funds and the other reason it is needed for quickly charging their Semi-trucks 600kWH batteries and Cyber Trucks up to 250kWH cells which will work on their new 800-volt 400kW chargers. Tesla may be able to charge a 100kWH battery to 92% someday in less than 5 minutes using these new 400kW chargers. Telsa like the company I work for is testing MCS connectors which are good up to 3.75MW at 1200 volts. The issue with MCS is if you charge a truck, train, ship, or any other heavy vehicle during the day using this amount of power the utility may delay the build-out of the chargers due to their need to first redesign that section of their power grid.

      • Hans Roes

        Member
        September 4, 2022 at 2:41 pm

        They did in Europe

  • Ron Ledohowski

    Member
    July 15, 2022 at 12:21 am

    Electric Viking on Aptera & the Tesla charging plug.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_psi1wlKdo

  • Vernon Sinnott

    Member
    July 15, 2022 at 10:14 am

    Shouldn’t this petition be broadened to include Canada by contacting Transport Canada? I have signed.

Viewing 1 - 25 of 50 replies

or to reply.

Original Post
0 of 0 posts June 2018
Now