Petition to make Tesla Superchargers and Plugs the U.S. standard

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Petition to make Tesla Superchargers and Plugs the U.S. standard

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Petition to make Tesla Superchargers and Plugs the U.S. standard

  • Petition to make Tesla Superchargers and Plugs the U.S. standard

     John Malcom updated 2 days, 22 hours ago 51 Members · 107 Posts
  • Ronnie

    Member
    July 15, 2022 at 12:21 am

    Electric Viking on Aptera & the Tesla charging plug.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=d_psi1wlKdo

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by  Ronnie.

  • Vernon SINNOTT

    Member
    July 15, 2022 at 10:14 am

    Shouldn’t this petition be broadened to include Canada by contacting Transport Canada? I have signed.

  • Jeffrey Parker

    Member
    July 15, 2022 at 4:46 pm

    Tesla does the CCS2 plug and your argument of it being clunky it is unfounded.

    Tesla charger with dual plugs https://youtu.be/H1OQQYO3G34?t=58

    Tesla with CCS2 port Model-3-CCS-charging-port.jpg (683×455) (cloudinary.com)

    Tesla in China market with J1772 Type 2 equivalent and GB/T DC ports tesla-model-3-china-charging-port.jpg (1049×872) (greentransportation.info)

  • Ray Holan

    Moderator
    July 16, 2022 at 11:04 am

    This recent video from Steve’s Aptera Owners Club channel provides a great deal of well-researched information that relates to the discussion of whether to push the Tesla plug as a U.S. standard. The achilles heel of the Tesla plug as a standard for ALL is the voltage limit of the design — it is not able to support the level that brands such as Lucid, Audi, Kia, and GM are planning for their DC fast charging. The voltage limit is not a problem for Aptera, but will be a showstopper for the larger battery packs of vehicles from these other manufacturers.

    Well worth the time to view this video I think.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wuy4wglgOo

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      July 16, 2022 at 3:22 pm

      The achilleas heel of the Tesla plug is it is proprietary for one brand. No other EV manufacturer in the U.S., Europe, Chiina, and most of the rest of the world will adopt it. If Aptera does, there will be only two EV manufacturers with the Tesla plug in the U.S. Tesla now, and in the future in the rest of the world will be CCS. Not much of a basis for a standard.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        July 17, 2022 at 9:56 am

        Anywhere with 3 phase AC power cant use this when pin converting a tesla plug (they would need more wires); this is why the type2 plug (top of a CCS2) exists. So even with a expensive adapter in europe and australia you would never be able to level 2 charge to its potential.

    • Russell Fauver

      Member
      July 17, 2022 at 5:30 pm

      Trying to find a standard that is future proof is difficult. EVs are changing at a rapid pace and chargers need to change with them. Even Chademo is working to make 500kw-900kw charging a reality with their version 3.0.

      https://www.chademo.com/technology/high-powerhttps://www.chademo.com/technology/high-power

  • Qiang Fu

    Member
    July 17, 2022 at 10:31 am

    I signed, blindly hoping that whatever hidden agenda Aptera has behind this petition will benefit the company. 😀

  • Gabriel Stillabower

    Member
    July 17, 2022 at 11:09 pm

    Signed and shared

  • Paul Carlucci

    Member
    July 18, 2022 at 2:51 pm

    Signed, because Aptera wants it and I want to help Aptera.

  • Lloyd Lewis

    Member
    July 19, 2022 at 6:35 am

    I’m also concerned about the rear-center position. I have no experience driving a 3-wheeler, but I assume backing a wide vehicle into a tight charging spot (next to other $70k autos) will be a little tricky.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      July 19, 2022 at 6:46 am

      The rear of the vehicle is narrow, it’s the front that’s wide. Assuming that they do a good job with the backup camera it won’t be that bad.

  • Russell Fauver

    Member
    July 19, 2022 at 8:14 am

    All this talk about plugs made us forget about the yoke 🙂

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      July 19, 2022 at 3:50 pm

      But it’s soo happy to see you 😃

      • Ray Holan

        Moderator
        July 20, 2022 at 7:00 am

        Someone MUST make a tee shirt out of this!

  • Ralph Preston

    Member
    July 24, 2022 at 4:44 pm

    Isn’t the Aptera powered by the Sun? That’s what the home page says. Check the Vehicle page, the default settings displays 0.00 charges per year. My estimated number of charges per year is also 0.00. I find it ridiculous and embarrassing that Aptera is shilling for Tesla over a connector that will rarely be used.

    • Riley ________________________________

      Member
      July 24, 2022 at 7:39 pm

      Your going to be disappointed when you find out that you dont have the range to make it to your next destination and the whole next week is cloudy.

      I am glad Aptera is doing what they want. They are a private company that is pushing a controversial Topic that they believe in. Even negative publicity gets the company name out in the public.

    • Tim Polen

      Member
      July 27, 2022 at 9:11 am

      Solar is meant to cover the day-to-day driving. You’ll still need a solid charging network to do trips.

  • The Traveller

    Member
    July 26, 2022 at 7:05 am

    Tesla Expected To Open US Supercharger Network To Other EVs, Applies For Funds

    https://insideevs.com/news/600288/tesla-open-up-us-network/

  • Qiang Fu

    Member
    July 27, 2022 at 3:52 am

    It may sound silly but may just work: to have higher rate of charging beyond 250kw currently offered by tesla plug, a car can be built with 2 tesla charging ports (or some kinds of combo plug that can take one or two plugs). The car can be charged with one plug if it’s only one available, and 2 plugs if two are available.

    This way backward compatibility is guaranteed and the setup is easily expandable. Who knows, future Semis may even want to have 3 or 4 charging ports to get 1000kw charging.😀

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      July 27, 2022 at 8:42 am

      The V4 charger will be > 350KW (some hackers have found a 374 figure in the app code). Cars don’t need anything greater than 250 but pickup trucks can benefit. The limitation to charging speed is the charging curve not the peak speed. Tesla’s only maintain 250KW for a few minutes before the rate starts to drop. Improving charging speed will involve better batteries that can maintain a high rate longer and better cooling not higher rate chargers. A monster truck like the Hummer which has a 200KWh battery does need a faster charger but if it could maintain 350KW you could do a 75% charge in about a half an hour. The problem is that nobody can maintain a flat curve for very long.

      • Tim Polen

        Member
        July 27, 2022 at 9:10 am

        At these rates, we’re also going to hit limits on grid power. It almost doesn’t matter what vehicle you’re trying to charge. Even at 1 mile/kWh, 250 kW still dumps 250 miles of range in an hour, which is a workable rate.

        Commercial vehicles like the Tesla Semi are going to have a different connector anyway. Personal vehicles will be fine with a 250 kW limit for charging.

      • Paul Schultz

        Member
        July 27, 2022 at 4:47 pm

        @Joshua Rosen, I believe several manufacturers have vehicles or plan to have, that run on an 800V battery system. Having a higher-rated charging standard would complement these higher voltage systems. This is a current limit of the Tesla charging standards.

  • cody dahl

    Member
    July 27, 2022 at 8:20 am

    I like how Aptera is basically just lying at this point. In that last video you compared a lvl 1 telsa charger to a DC fast charger. Those are completely different. How about showing a lvl 1 J1772 to a lvl 1 tesla plug, there basically the same size. I understand that Aptera wants the Tesla plug, that’s fine it will work great with your battery voltage and charge speeds but the CCS supports high voltages and can charge cars faster and is more future proof.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      July 27, 2022 at 8:27 am

      You don’t have a Tesla do you? There is one Tesla plug, it’s the same for AC and DC charging. It’s not like the CCS1 standard which is a J1772 section plus a DC section. To the eye the major difference in the cables is just the length, the AC cable is long the DC cable is short. The V3 DC cable is liquid cooled but that’s not noticeable to the user.

      • cody dahl

        Member
        July 27, 2022 at 8:34 am

        I’m very aware what the telsa plug looks like in all 3 charging standards. So your claiming the lvl1-2 cable and the water cooled DC cable are the same size?

        • This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by  cody dahl.
        • This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by  cody dahl.
        • Tim Polen

          Member
          July 27, 2022 at 9:02 am

          The thickness of the cable is different, but the connector itself is the same. It re-uses the AC charge pins for DC at Superchargers, so it doesn’t matter whether a Tesla is charging at level 1, level 2, or DC Supercharging. They all use the exact same 5-pin connector.

          On that note, what exactly makes CCS capable of higher voltage that Tesla cannot? The Tesla connector’s pins are very nearly the same spacing as the DC pins on a CCS connector. The pictures below show the spacing on the Tesla connector vs. the CCS port on my Bolt.

          • cody dahl

            Member
            July 27, 2022 at 9:10 am

            I didn’t design either plug so I’m not sure why but I do know CCS is rated for up to 1000v where the tesla cable is not. The connectors themselves with no cable attached would both barely weigh anything with one just being slightly more bulky. I want to point out the reason I say they are basically lying at this point is because all of the weight and stiffness comes from the giant water cooled cables, showing a tesla charging plug with a tiny little cable on it and a CCS DC fast charge plug with a huge stiff cable on it is extremely misleading.

            • Joshua Rosen

              Member
              July 27, 2022 at 9:17 am

              The Tesla cables aren’t stiff and they aren’t giant. I use SuperChargers every weekend. Where did you get the idea that Tesla cables are any thicker than CCS cables?

            • cody dahl

              Member
              July 27, 2022 at 9:20 am

              In Aptera’s newest youtube video they compare a DC fast charger with a level 1 tesla charger. The cables on both tesla super chargers and DC fast chargers are very thick and a little stiff compared to household lvl 1 and 2 chargers. I also clearly never said they were thicker than CCS in fact i’m pretty sure CCS is a little thicker to handle more power.

            • Joshua Rosen

              Member
              July 27, 2022 at 12:00 pm

              Cody. I have a Tesla Level 2 at home and I use Tesla Superchargers every weekend. There is almost no difference in the cable thickness. Please just look at a SuperCharger and handle the cable. You’ll see that it’s comfortable to use.

            • Jeffrey Parker

              Member
              July 27, 2022 at 4:42 pm

              @Joshua Rosen please compare this DC supercharger cable with the cable in the latest video and tell me they’re the same size so I know you’re lying.

              AC cables are much thinner, level 1 and level 2.

              https://www.drivingelectric.com/tesla/52/tesla-supercharger-network-complete-guide-to-tesla-charging-stations

  • Thomas Bushaw

    Member
    July 28, 2022 at 8:26 am

    An interesting essay on this issue was posted on the ApteraMotors Reddit page recently (7/27/22). The author seems to hit many of the points that have been raised here. The cost factor is not mentioned however.

    For me, the Tesla plug certainly matches the “look and feel” of the Aptera much better and seems to be the way to go for the onboard receptacle. But when a vehicle is touted as “never charge,” I’m not sure what all the fuss is about. A small adaptor will allow this receptacle to mate with the CCS network if and when the network is even needed, right?

    There certainly is some virtue in pushing for sensible federal standards, but is this really where Aptera’s focus needs to be right now? Or is there an ulterior motive for this campaign?

  • Jon Kramer

    Member
    July 31, 2022 at 6:44 pm

    I’ve been thinking about this for awhile, and I have to question the logic here. The Tesla chargers are limited to about 400V, correct? And conservatively, the future of EVs may be 800V systems, correct?

    It might be great for Aptera, but not so much for the industry in general???

    Please correct me if I am wrong.

  • Hee-Choon Lee

    Member
    August 4, 2022 at 2:11 am

    Just watched Sandy Munro ask Ford’s top executives about Tesla plug. Seems Sandy is willing to lend a hand in this Aptera endeavor.

  • Bob Kirchner

    Member
    August 5, 2022 at 8:56 am

    If you’re worried about clunky, I’ll show you clunky:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24eFs-hniikhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24eFs-hniik

    Go to 2:15 to see what I’ll have to carry with me if Aptera goes with a Tesla plug.

    What a kluge.

    • This reply was modified 2 days, 22 hours ago by  Bob Kirchner.
    • John Malcom

      Member
      August 5, 2022 at 10:52 am

      A good video. Viewing this should convince anyone of the need for a North American single charging standard that works for all vehicles without an adapter. That would not be the Tesla plug.

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