- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 11:48 am
I heard Chris mentioned in the webinar that they are working to complete the first pre-production build by the end of the year.
I thought the schedule was to have the first customer delivery by the end of the year.
Although the delay, if confirmed, is not really surprising, nevertheless a down note.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 12:39 pm
They are getting an initial gamma done soon. They were quite clear about the intent to deliver units to customers this year but it will likely be more hand built and not handled in the same production stations that would be putting it together at scale (potentially assembled by the engineers). Essentially once the final design is set they will start making a small number manually as the 2 assembly facilities and are put together and line staff are trained.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 1:02 pm
That is OK I think. Good to do a manual walkthrough with engineers and someone to assess the process and places where defects are most likely to occur using knowledgeable engineers, clean up the process, and run through again to validate. That would make the training of the assembly staff more efficient and reduce the potential for defects from assembly staff due to process.
- This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Jonah Jorgenson. Reason: correct spelling
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 5:17 pm
Thanks, Curtis. That makes sense. I had thought the sequence would be pre-production, production, then customer delivery. But you are right that the company can deliver limited number to customers before mass production is up and running.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 12:40 pm
Yes, the production schedule is slipping, in the interest of making a better product.
I was hoping that an actual Gama unit would be shown, but now that will not be until next month.
The solar cell development information was very interesting, indicating that other solar vehicles may not hold up as well.
I am concerned about the batteries while they can store more energy per pound, they will cost more and will be more temperature sensitive than other lithium batteries. Being that these vehicles are intended to be left out in the sun, the temperature management system is critical.
The electrical system is what I hoped it would be, however it is a software sensitive system. If something goes wrong with the system there could be serious problems, nothing was said on how that situation would be handled.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 12:40 pm
Altogether now: “Supply chain problems”
That is the new mantra for someone who can’t fulfill what they promised. Oh, it is usually accompanied by a 20% price hike. Hopefully Aptera is not like the supplier of the materials I needed to replace my roof and will only have a slight delay and also meet their original price point.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 1:14 pm
Mmm, I’ll get a hand built Aptera like a fancy upscale Hyper Car. I call that bragging rights.
Not me of course as I’m a bit over 10K in line but I would think it would be a cool factor to be able to say that.
So, we’ve got assembly machines being shipped, wheel motors being shipped (?) we can only hope they have a few on hand for the year end hand builds. Again a good question.
Do we have any parts on hand and if so of what percentages for year end assembly?
I understand the Gamma will be a tighter assembled unit and will be darn near production ready with all of it’s intended parts for we have yet to see a completed fully functional car (autocycle) yet.
Do we know if the solar gives them that 40 miles a day? If so, what? If not, what? Was that any reason for adding the few cells to the front? Seems like they also added a few either to the roof or hatch. Promised to say more about it in the future.
I know these parts need to be built and shipped from all over the supply chain.
Let’s hope there’s a comprehensive video on the Gamma to keep our mouths salivating.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 1:29 pm
Underwhelming after the buildup for the webinar.
Most of the presentations did not add additional information and in some cases less (Previous battery video was more informative).
Chris’s rant on the Tesla plug provided no insight on what will be on the CCS charging standard Aptera.
The yoke justification was not.
Still a lot of marketing speak
After all of the strong invitation to submit questions, few of import were answered.
Time is running out for “We will tell you(Substance) later this year”
I would like to hear production update from Pablo the man in charge, and the engineering updates from the chief engineer (Nathan Armstrong) to judge their engagement in this enterprise at this critical point.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 1:59 pm
I agree, Jonah. I couldn’t watch the livestream but I just finished watching the recorded video on YouTube. One thing I wanted to see was the rear end of the Gamma build with the squished tail lights.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 5:09 pm
The height of the gamma backend is likely just enough for a taillight which is similar to that on the alpha. I see no reason for some exotic shape of the taillight.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 5:05 pm
Well, I for one felt very positive about the webinar. Of particular interest was the discussion about almost inventing the solar aspect of the vehicle, of having onsite patent lawyers, of no one else in the world has their amount of time and knowledge at this point.
Left me very energized about the company.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 6:27 pm
I don’t want to rob you of any energy but…
Much of what was said about the solar was ill-informed. To this “so-called” expert, it looks like they have a sort of tunnel vision on this topic. I’m now even more worried….
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 6:38 pm
I think all on the forum would acknowledge you as an expert on vehicular solar. I would agree with the “Tunnel vision” somewhat expected with their mental investment in their work. Sometimes it takes a third party outsider to add objectivity to pronouncements.
What are your thoughts?
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 6:53 pm
I’m assuming Aptera did not come to you for knowledge on solar on vehicles.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 7:11 pm
They did but in a weird way. A key individual from Aptera (who shall remain unnamed) reached out to me and essentially used his time on the phone, text and email to try to simply “extract” my hard earned “know-how”. Quite the inexperienced amateur. I had hoped that, in time, after they skinned their knees a bit and realized solar development was not as simplistic as amateurs would have you believe, that Aptera and I could have come together in a more productive way. I’m still holding out hope and they still have my number….
- ModeratorJune 14, 2022 at 3:52 pm
But about 43:10 into the video Chris still mentions they hope to deliver a customer vehicle end of year ( We know that would be a Paradigm 40 kWh edition first…. )
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 5:02 pm
The impression I got was they hope to deliver ONE vehicle by 11:59 PM December 31, 2022 Pacific Standard Time.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 6:39 pm
Yes, it is unnerving that the wheels of anticipated production are creeping along. High gas prices, EV sales are exploding with a long waiting list and used EV’s are selling almost same day listed. Further, we now have reservations of 25,000+ Aptera’s. It would be awesome if production could move a little faster. However, having been a part of the call today I am more excited than ever. I have full confidence in the leadership of Chris, Tom and the Aptera team. Based on community discussions, the history, the technology and the timing of this journey, I am convinced that the outcome will be nothing less than astounding. I expect nothing less than amazing over the next few weeks and months. While I find the waiting game to be painful, I would not want detrimental shortcuts. As a side note, due to my overwhelming excitement, my wife keeps trying to put me in timeout.
- MemberAugust 22, 2022 at 8:48 am
I wonder if they might be interested in a little assistance from someone who has worked in manufacturing for decades and is skilled in improving productivity?
They may find out the hard way, like Elon did, that the work to create a functional production system is 10x effort more than developing the car.
p.s. I’m also experienced in developing training materials for new products.
- This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Mark Warren.
- MemberJune 14, 2022 at 8:21 pm
@Qiang Fu Chris said, “…deliver a pre-production vehicle…” which is what @Curtis Cibinel describes in his response.
- MemberNovember 20, 2022 at 7:24 am
There is an Aptera Owners Club video where he makes the very reasonable claim that production won’t start until late next year. He’s reviewing a webinar where Chris Anthony says that production will start 9 months after they have the funding to do it, he also indicated that they don’t have the money yet. Start watching around 10:45
- MemberNovember 20, 2022 at 8:12 am
Then they need to change the projected delivery periods on our reservations to 2024 – 2025 at least. Leaving it at 2023 – 2024 is a classic bait-and-switch which is illegal.
- MemberNovember 20, 2022 at 5:34 pm
A statement on a company’s website and/or a fully refundable reservation are not legallly binding contracts. Nothing illegal here.
- MemberNovember 22, 2022 at 11:01 am
Mine also says 2023-2024, and I’m in Europe 😆
I think we can expect things to change on the website after Delta has been released, and before the first actual fully-paid orders.
Specs, solar gain, prices, time ranges, etc, all might potentially change. They’re pretty clear on the website during the pre-order process that everything is tentative right now, so from a legal viewpoint they’re covered.
Legal issues aren’t the only risk though. Where they might run into trouble is with the customers if any of those things change radically in the wrong direction, without a clear reason why (e.g., look at the customer reaction when Rivian changed their pre-order prices). To avoid PR headaches, any change needs to be justifiable, and communicated clearly at the earliest opportunity.
- This reply was modified 1 week ago by Michael Marsden.
- MemberNovember 20, 2022 at 8:47 am
Yep, mid-September Chris said crash testing in Q2 2023, and a bit after that he said customer deliveries in maybe about a year (i.e., Q3 2023). 9 months after funding is consistent with those statements.
- MemberNovember 21, 2022 at 5:55 am
At some point their window will close. It will still have it’s uniqueness, nothing else looks remotely like an Aptera, but it will lose it’s practical advantages. I’m primarily attracted to the Aptera by it’s range, I really like the idea of not being tied to fast chargers. By 2024, which now looks like the year that mine will be available, I’m guessing the Model 3/Y will have over 400 miles of range which hits the good enough level, it’s still less than the 600 that Aptera will have but as a practical matter that might not matter. My Model 3, which has about 250 miles of range @90% in good weather and less in cold weather, requires Supercharger stops on every trip. Another 100 miles of range would eliminate about 75% of my Supercharger stops which would give me more flexibility. My Model 3 will be five years old in 2024 which means that I’ll probably want to replace it. I don’t know if I’ll still want the Aptera by then or if I’ll just get another Tesla. If they go beyond 2024 I’ll definitely just upgrade my Tesla and forget about Aptera.
Anyone else have thoughts about their personal expiration window?
- MemberNovember 21, 2022 at 6:31 am
Joshua, I definitely understand your reasoning. Here is a thought, I’m not sure if you have seen the APTERA in person, will you feel you made a mistake when you are driving in your Tesla and an APTERA pulls up next to you?
Also, not sure how much your Tesla will cost by 2024? More than likely will be quite a bit more than APTERA’s 1,000 mile range vehicle.
- MemberNovember 21, 2022 at 6:42 am
@Joshua Rosen I’m fine with 2024 – my Clarity will be six years old and will still have some resale value. 2025, though, might be pushing things a bit… For me it comes down to a race between Aptera and the Federal Infrastructure Law build-out: In my state (and the adjoining states) only Tesla vehicles are currently capable of traveling any distance because we have Superchargers but only one CCS multi-dispenser site and two individual single DC chargers. A 600 mile Aptera would make all the difference for my use-case until such time as the charging infrastructure improves.
- MemberNovember 21, 2022 at 6:07 am
I’m hoping to get one by the summer of 2024. I can understand their lead times getting extended out, as it’s a big job to get an automobile company up and running, but hopefully they are just being overly cautious about expectations.
- MemberNovember 21, 2022 at 7:35 am
I personally believe their window to market may have already closed. Putting aside current market conditions the Aptera is already looking like a hard sell compared to what other vehicle manufacturers have in their pipelines. While granted those vehicles will be nowhere near as efficient as the Aptera, other vehicles will be safer, come with more creature comforts, and provide far more utility.
- MemberNovember 21, 2022 at 11:44 am
I am in agreement with Joshua. My main interest in the Aptera is its efficiency and mileage. Like Joshua, I drive a Model 3 with about 250 mi range. The appearance of the Aptera is not a pull for me, neither is the right to repair which I think is a sham in reality for most owners and a rationale for not having a support nextwork in place. The two seat limitation is also a negative for me as I currently often have family or friends travel with me. Many competitors will be joining the market in 2023 and 2024. They will be lower priced than the current EVs on the market with comparable ranges. The growing charging infrastructure degades the range attractiveness for me as well. If my aptera delivery goes past Q1 of 2024, I will get something else in the market. My reservation is in the low 1100’s.
As Joshua indicates, others will pass Aptera if Aptera does not establish a presence in the market place now or very soon.
- MemberNovember 21, 2022 at 10:58 pm
Replying to everyone here.
I’m starting to get antsy for the following reasons:
1. My age is 72
2. The delays are frequently occurring
3. When are we going to see the Delta?
4. What was the big announcement going to be in mid November?
I don’t want to be a Donny Downer, but I love the SEV, the concept, the efficiency, design and range but….when are we going to even see one on the road?
- MemberNovember 28, 2022 at 12:30 pm
Aptera, start building the Apteras now. The first ones don’t have to be perfect. You can exchange the first Apteras sold to customers with the more perfected designed one later Customers want to buy them now. Hand build them, whatever to get them customers. Aptera won’t have to put a penny into marketing. Once start getting them on the street, the billionaires will see them and the country will go wild. Will be so much free advertising. Even if and when you have recalls, the news will be everywhere. And people will reserve them like crazy. Aptera is putting too much money into building each one, that will defeat the whole purpose of saving money on gas. It’s almost as if someone in the company is dragging out the production and pumping up the entire cost of production to Aptera’s breaking point on purpose. Maybe it’s Sandy Munro. $500 million was way more than enough to produce 1,000s of Apteras already.
Pay for anything else you need for production with money coming in from the sales of the Apteras. You all are thinking Tesla instead of Henry Ford.
Perfect is the enemy of good. Voltaire
- MemberNovember 28, 2022 at 1:47 pm
third time you posted the same thinkg. You only need to post once.
- MemberNovember 28, 2022 at 3:50 pm
John Dowell wrote: “Perfect is the enemy of good. Voltaire”
Even more appropriate to Aptera is Mark Cuban’s version: “Perfection is the enemy of profitability.”