Safety Pilot: An Interesting Upgrade

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Safety Pilot: An Interesting Upgrade

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Safety Pilot: An Interesting Upgrade

  • Safety Pilot: An Interesting Upgrade

     Stefan Obel updated 1 week ago 15 Members · 34 Posts
  • Boz O’Clown

    Member
    May 6, 2022 at 12:29 pm

    I’m excited that Aptera is offering the Safety Pilot upgrade. Long trips should be a lot less monotonous with its facial tracking, lane keep, adaptive cruise and emergency braking. It remains to be seen what it will and won’t do.

    I’m thinking I may be allowed to set it and forget it on long Interstate highway travel. Personally I would have little interest in any other application.

    I ordered the 400 mile version which, at 75 mph and with A/C, should give me about 220 or so miles between recharges (recharge to 80% and then run it down to 20%). Or a little over three hours of travel, then (I’m guessing) about 30 minutes on a DC fast charger at 50 kwh.

    Call it wild speculation or an educated guess, but exciting.

    • This discussion was modified 2 weeks ago by  Boz O'Clown. Reason: Add notifications of any replies
  • Steven G. Bueche

    Member
    May 6, 2022 at 12:50 pm

    I’m not real sure if the safety pilot will be in the first run cars. They haven’t spoken much on it and have yet to fully explain some of the electronics. If fact they’re just now running the test Aptera to prove the solar capabilities. I know there are computer simulations but, the real world testing is still on going.

    • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

      Member
      May 6, 2022 at 1:05 pm

      Steven, you are correct, safety pilot will not be on the earliest vehicles, but the hardware will be in place, and it will be added with an OTA update for those that have ordered it.

      • Steven G. Bueche

        Member
        May 6, 2022 at 1:06 pm

        Thanks Oz for clearing that up.

      • Benjamin Dreidel

        Member
        May 6, 2022 at 8:57 pm

        Will the hardware be in all the vehicles sold or just the ones that buy the upgrade?

        • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

          Member
          May 7, 2022 at 5:10 am

          Benjamin, a good question, one that I myself have not seen asked to, or addressed by Aptera.

          • Alex L

            Member
            May 11, 2022 at 6:51 pm

            <deleted by author>

            • This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by  Alex L.
  • kerbe2705

    Member
    May 6, 2022 at 10:23 pm

    I’m not certain why Aptera is including facial tracking as part of Safety Pilot. Level 2 autonomous systems aren’t “self-driving” – they combine Adaptive Cruise Control with Lane Keep Assist. Most LKA systems won’t auto-negotiate more than a 10° turn, requiring the driver to steer the vehicle around the curve.

    Unless, of course, they’re planning for Safety Pilot to be a “hands-free” system with the steering yoke having neither capacitive or acceleration sensors…

    I do a great deal of Interstate driving and rely upon Honda’s Level 2 “Sensing Suite” in my Clarity PHEV to make the experience much more comfortable and stress-free. The only issue I have with vision-based LKA is that it stumbles when lane markings are indistinct, unclear or missing: In other words, it needs to see the painted lines – it can’t determine the difference between the edge of the road surface and the shoulder without them.

    • Paul Schultz

      Member
      May 7, 2022 at 12:41 pm

      Most OEM implementations of LKA and ACC don’t really qualify for full level 2 designation. They are more of a 1.5 to 1.8. Also, the difference between level 2 and 3 is a substantial hurdle. I have a comma 3 and run OpenPilot in the expressway. It stays very centered even on aggressive curves. I pass other vehicles without worry. Comma.ai calls their implementation level 2+. They are currently working on an end-to-end driving experience with recognition of traffic lights, stop signs, etc.

      If SafetyPilot ends up with a level 2+ implementation it would be well worth it. I have a 125-mile daily round trip commute with about 100 miles on the expressway. Having the comma.ai/OpenPilot really makes the drive so much more relaxing.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        May 7, 2022 at 3:29 pm

        It has not been announced who the safety pilot supplier will be. I am sure a major selection criteria for it will be the ease of integration into the Aptera software and hardware architecture and compatibility with the cameras selected for Aptera as we do understand that it will be visual based and not sensor based.

        I believe that Open Pilot requires a piece of proprietary hardware to be installed. It’s extra weight and cost may disqualify it from consideration.

        OZ has posted that it will not be a part of early production Aptera but an after purchase OTA implementation.

        • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by  John Malcom. Reason: Correct spelling
        • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

          Member
          May 7, 2022 at 3:49 pm

          You know I’m trying to remember/find the video where this was mentioned.. The first one I looked at (That I thought it was in.) was referring to a “sentry mode” instead. I’m almost positive they covered the safety pilot as well at some point. (Gotta organize my notes.)

          • John Malcom

            Member
            May 7, 2022 at 3:52 pm

            You are pretty knowledgeable and thorough. I trust you when you make a statement as you are one of the founding fathers of the ambassadors group

            • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by  John Malcom. Reason: Correct spelling
            • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

              Member
              May 8, 2022 at 5:34 am

              John, although I am an ambassador, I was not one of the early ones, but thanks for the kudos.

          • kerbe2705

            Member
            May 7, 2022 at 9:01 pm

            At one point, very early-on, Chris and Steve said that Aptera was working with a “developer in Japan” to create the Safety Pilot software.

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        May 7, 2022 at 9:09 pm

        @Paul Schultz Except that, according to the SAE standards, there are no “intermediate” levels: A vehicle meets a standard or it doesn’t – there’s no “almost”. If a company chooses to claim otherwise, well, it’s just marketing lingo.

        • Paul Schultz

          Member
          May 8, 2022 at 5:10 am

          No company makes the claim of being between levels. But, instead of claiming of achieving level 3 as I believe Tesla has hinted in some of their marketing, comma.ai is more realistic in stating that the implementations comma.ai and Tesla will achieve is more in a “2 plus” realm. No one was changing the SAE standard. I appreciate that comma is not overhyping their hardware/software. Comma has stated that its goal is to maximize the level 2 experience. Level 3 is technically much harder to achieve while maintaining a required high level of safety. Any claims of achieving level 3 (Tesla?) should be considered as the marketing hype at this stage of ADAS development.

          I have over 60K miles of driving on my comma/OP set up with my Chevy Volt. It has worked very well for me. I will get SafetyPilot as I want an integrated solution for my Aptera. I hope that they can achieve the same level of comfort and safety that my comma/OP has provided.

          One area I hope would be borrowed by SafetyPilot from comma/OP is the driver monitoring as it is very good. But, this requires an interior camera facing the driver. I don’t recall seeing that as a plan in any Aptera specs. Did I miss it?

  • Norman Roberts

    Member
    May 7, 2022 at 7:03 pm

    I am thinking Aptera may use Auto/Safety Pilot from Chery Automotive. Their agreement which was completed in Jan 2022 requires Aptera to pay $2,000,000 and then 258.00 royalty for each vehicle that uses their tech or parts ??

    Chery has the hardware and software

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      May 7, 2022 at 8:34 pm

      Good insight. I’ll definitely be looking into the specifics. Here is a video (animation) of some of the Chery ADAS technologies. If we get all of these features I would be thrilled (in addition to the fairly typical virtual top down view for parking – no idea what that feature is generally called but I love it).

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_PXqTTG714

      Note: The Chery Tiggo 8 Pro is similar so reviews of this implementation would be the best real world example of what we might be able to expect if the Aptera is using essentially the same platform; unfortunately the most in depth seem to be in Chinese and Hindi.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        May 8, 2022 at 6:17 am

        Comprehensive!

        Looks like it relies on sensors that Aptera may not have if Aptera is camera only based. Similar to functionality in my Model 3

        • Curtis Cibinel

          Member
          May 8, 2022 at 10:26 am

          Did anyone from Aptera ever say Aptera ADAS (SafetyPilot) would be vision only like Tesla? It seems a radar makes some of these features far simpler. I seem to recall it being fairly clearly said that anything past level 2 isn’t in the plan (cant remember when) so if that is the case Aptera has no need for advanced AI neural nets like Tesla FSD; each of the features is relatively simple from a sensor data to action perspective (unlike building an AI to drive with super advanced image processing). The sign recognizing and lane assist are the only vision based feature and is very simple compared to recognizing literally every other possible thing a car could encounter.

          Obviously use of Chery ADAS technology is speculation but given they have no signs of vision only technology and that animation is very new I don’t think we can assume a vision only approach.

          • John Malcom

            Member
            May 8, 2022 at 10:40 am

            A fair question.

            I remember the statement from the old forum days that the SafetyPilot would be camera based. That was a year and four months ago maybe before they really knew what they wanted to do. I have asked a SafetyPilot question directly to Aptera recently and have not received a reply for some time. Mostly I get responses quickly. So either they don’t know at this time or don’t wish to share what they know. I think radar sensors are essential for some of the common Level II features, but I certainly am far from knowledgeable. that is why I was interested in your views

          • kerbe2705

            Member
            May 8, 2022 at 2:42 pm

            Yes – Chris said more than one time that Aptera would have a vision-only system: I recall one statement during a webinar and another in a video interview.

            • Curtis Cibinel

              Member
              May 8, 2022 at 3:02 pm

              If that is the case it is likely Chery has nothing to do with SafetyPilot and they have another vendor in mind. Alternatively Chery may have vision only tech they haven’t incorporated into a released vehicle yet but it seems more likely to have nothing to do with the Royalty / Payments Norman identified. Chery must be providing something significant to justify a Royalty that large.

            • Paul Schultz

              Member
              May 8, 2022 at 5:36 pm

              Vendors are going to vision-only as it can perform better than radar and reduces complexity/price by eliminating the forward long radar unit that needs to be behind a radar compatible grill/face. Once the image processing firmware is in place a vehicle can have several ADAS features with the already-in-place front-facing camera.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      May 7, 2022 at 9:00 pm

      This makes a lot of sense. They have a mature system that works well and is well regarded in their vehicles. Not sure how compatible it would be with Aptera HW and SW architecture and how it would fit with the $1,300 charge on the configuration app.

      Curtis, with his expertise, can investigate and report for us if Aptera does not want to weigh in

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by  John Malcom. Reason: Correct spelling
    • kerbe2705

      Member
      May 7, 2022 at 9:03 pm

      Can you quote chapter and verse on this information? I’ve never seen it mentioned anywhere before…

  • Thomas French

    Member
    May 8, 2022 at 6:33 am

    I hope this can be part of the first orders, if they put in the cameras, then later add the electronics.

    My Tesla model S 2013 had OP, and I made pedal pcb’s with smd tech, for the community to use the OP. I have to say the OP device handled curves much better than the Model Y 2022 Tesla I had. Waiting for the Aptera to become the next best thing.

    • Paul Kirchner

      Member
      May 8, 2022 at 7:41 am

      Ok.

      What’s OP?

      What’s pedal pcb’s?

      What’s smd tech?

      • Paul Schultz

        Member
        May 8, 2022 at 9:11 am

        OP = OpenPilot: an opensource advanced driver assist system produced by comma.ai

        Pedal PCBs = An add-on small device to allow control of acceleration/deceleration by OpenPilot. This is not needed by all vehicles, only some.

        SMD = service mount device. A method for soldering small IC chip components to a circuit board.

        • Hale Marine

          Member
          May 8, 2022 at 3:52 pm

          Open Pilot would be great option for Aperta

  • John Malcom

    Member
    May 11, 2022 at 5:44 pm

    A lot of good discussion on this topic in this thread. I asked Aptera directly and this is the response I received:

    Hi John!

    Thanks for asking about this! We plan to offer Safety Pilot with Level 2 autonomy capability, which includes facial tracking, lane keep, adaptive cruise, and emergency braking. We have not yet announced what will be available in the first production vehicles. Aptera is working towards a full self-driving model, although those capabilities will be released in stages. As we continue to move toward production, we will be sure to share this information with you on our website! Thank you for asking.

    We are talking with several different partners about what form of autopilot we will use and we have some base hardware to work from now. The team is looking to make a decision after testing over the next few months. If you have any questions, please let me know!

    What this says to me:

    – Boiler plate for configuration tool for a description

    – Haven’t picked a vendor yet still looking

    – Not sure what (If any functionality) will be in first production

    – They have some hardware which constrains the solution depending on what that hardware is

    Implied message: don’t call us we will call you😉

  • qtqmvu nzbotmn

    Member
    May 14, 2022 at 12:11 am
    • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

      Member
      May 14, 2022 at 3:49 am

      SPAM…Reported

    • Stefan Obel

      Member
      May 14, 2022 at 5:46 am

      Did I miss the “report” button for a profile?
      This profile apparently was created for the sole purpose of posting spam.

      The IP is owned/hosted by “Namecheap” and located in Atlanta, GA – a service provider known in the Network Security community for being a “preferred” vendor for “shady” elements.

      The client hiding behind Namecheap is located in China (based on embedded code “translations”: {

      “zh-cn”: “\u5317\u7f8e\u6d32”

      Maybe it is time to put up some more safeguards for this forum.

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