Sono Sion EV NewsPosted by Phil on November 18, 2021 at 12:55 am
I am committed to the vision of Aptera, but I do feel we can all learn something from the Sono Motors IPO video released today. While it is a much different vehicle with some advantages and disadvantages when compared to Aptera, they are a part of our SEV community. As a professional video technician for over 40 years, I hope Aptera can take some cues from this video for future presentations, it raises the bar for them. Here’s the link to it…..https://youtu.be/9MlQMG5S-_o
- 40 Replies
- MemberNovember 18, 2021 at 9:27 am
Aptera Owner’s Club (great channel btw) also did a video on the IPO and how it relates to Aptera specifically. He argues we should IPO ASAP before a potential overvaluation bubble bursts for EV companies. I think we should wait until they ship units to customers (likely mid next year) if the cash situation allows it (more conservative approach). I’m sure the leadership is looking at their options – even if they decide to IPO asap it will take 3-6 months.
- MemberNovember 18, 2021 at 11:19 am
Yes Curtis, I subscribe to that YouTube channel and it does make a lot of good points. My post was more about the great quality of the Sono IPO video production, not about when Aptera should offer an IPO.
- ModeratorJuly 26, 2022 at 3:48 am
The Sion seems to be getting a bit closer to reality.
- MemberDecember 8, 2022 at 11:28 am
As I posted in the other “Sono” thread this morning, now that Sono has failed, it should serve as a warning to anyone investing in start-ups in this space. As Sono has just shown, an IPO won’t save you.
- ModeratorDecember 8, 2022 at 11:44 am
“Sono Motors made an American tour with the Sion to introduce it to new customers. It was almost as if the company was also wondering about selling it in the U.S. That makes the company’s latest move quite surprising: the German startup said it might ditch the Sion and stick to its “attractive solar B2B business, which is significantly less capital intensive.”
The reason behind that decision is that Sono Motors did not manage to raise enough money to kick off the production of the solar car. The startup promised it would be the first affordable mass-production vehicle of its kind, with a price tag of €25,126 ($26,518 at the current exchange rate). On September 5, Sono Motors even celebrated it had raised €40 million ($42,22 million) without delivering a single car, thanks to around 20,000 reservations for the Sion.
According to Sion, it “failed to explain to investors why the Sion is truly needed and that there is a huge demand for it.” It added that “we are living through multiple global crises, causing most investors to avoid taking risks and look toward more mature companies.” The startup heard from some of these investors that it should “not build the car,” “restructure the company,” “lay off 70%” of its employees, “refund the Community,” and “disregard the Sion and our reservation holders.”
To avoid that, Sono Motors decided to launch the #saveSion campaign. It consists of trying to sell 3,500 cars for their total price. It is open both to new reservation holders and to current ones willing to increase their deposits. If you make a €500 ($528)downpayment (the lowest one), you get a €300 ($317) discount on your Sono Sion.
Those willing to pay in full for the solar car will pay €26,900 ($28,390). Although that is more than the €25,126 the company said it would cost, it is less than the €29,900 ($31,556) price the solar vehicle will actually have. Blame inflation for that – thank Sono for the €3,000 ($3,166) discount. Customers buying the car under this campaign will receive a fixed vehicle waiting list number. Although the Sion crossed the pond to say “hi” to American customers, only European customers can participate in the campaign.
Anyone afraid of buying something that may take too long to build may like to hear that they will only have to pay Sono Motors if the campaign goes well. In other words, if at least 3,499 other reservation holders also decide to pay the Sion in full in the next 50 days – until January 27, 2023. It is entirely in the “community’s” hands to do that or not.
Early birds get more significant discounts: the €300 to €3,000 rebates will only last for the next five days. Sono Motors did not disclose how much less people will pay for ordering their Sions at later dates, which could be an incentive to speed things up. To be honest, anyone paying the total price for a vehicle they may only receive two years from now is not after a good deal. They want to ensure the car will be produced. And that is only the first step.
According to Sono Motors, if the Sion program is saved by these reservations, the company will “pay the remaining machinery, tooling and production set-up to achieve the planned pre-series production in 2023 and make it to a high-volume start of production in 2024.” But the startup will “continue to find new investors.” Sono Motors did not disclose how essential that last bit is to truly save the solar car – or if the campaign’s success is enough.”
- MemberDecember 11, 2022 at 3:55 pm
If after 50days Sono does not make it to 3,500 fully paid deposits, they say they will refund your deposit. What if they are 1,000 cars short? [ Their website says they are at 370.5 goal after 4 days. Tomorrow the rebate for paying early will drop and so will the reservations]
They could “buy” these cars themselves and keep your deposit. These 1,000 cars would be bought on the last day. You would lose all your money if the Scion doesn’t survive and Sono doesn’t lose a thing since they are playing with company money. Not ethical, but who says Capitalism is?
- MemberDecember 8, 2022 at 11:58 am
The problem with Sono in my eyes was the relatively poor miles/kWh efficiency rating, which meant in turn that the daily solar miles wasn’t that great. To make the solar worthwhile, you need high efficiency to go along with it. That’s why Sono was never on my shortlist, despite it being manufactured much closer to me than Aptera.
- MemberDecember 8, 2022 at 1:30 pm
Totally agree. Their vehicle was not innovative enough. Of course there is always risk in investing in a start up. I have faith that Aptera has enough innovation to draw a much better public response.
- This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by Rex Schneider.
- MemberDecember 8, 2022 at 2:59 pm
The problem with the Sono is it is ‘a kind-a regular car with some real cool solar panels and software that may help Volkswagen, BMW, MB, etc. convert, primarily small trucks and vans to incorporate the lightweight solar pioneered in the Sion. Folks invested in the auto sector in the EU have surplus capacity for building regular cars … even EV cars and they don’t need another ‘car maker.’ but they all need ways to help expand range especially in vans and small trucks and solar plastic panels is a winner for the EU’s auto sector.
Basically the chassis for the Sion was a waste of resources from the point of view of the big companies and the government, all of whom are freaked by the implications of going electric on their premium export market. But the Sion panels aren’t ready for even an ID 4 … Their value is the rolling solar option for commercial applications.
The world just doesn’t need another obsolete steel car with wavy solar panels
- ModeratorDecember 11, 2022 at 2:33 pm
There was a live session on Youtube in addition to this:
- ModeratorDecember 11, 2022 at 2:35 pm
For those with German understanding, here’s the live session (though English subtitles are available):
- ModeratorDecember 20, 2022 at 10:21 am
They certainly are quite transparent with their continual updates:
- MemberDecember 20, 2022 at 1:56 pm
Sono’s “Save Scion” crowd funding campaign needs and average of 70 fully paid deposits per day to reach 3,500 total in 50 days. They started off strong, as would be expected, with 3,000 Euro rebates for each fully funded deposit made.
But as time has passed, this enthusiasm and the rebate has faded. In the past 24 hours, they have collected 13.9 full deposits. Without tapping other funds, they will not reach 3,500 in 50 days.
Sono will need to fill in the needed orders with other borrowed money in order to reach their goal of 3,500 full deposits.
In other words, supporters won’t be getting that money back. It’s a car or nothing. I hope they succeed.
- MemberDecember 21, 2022 at 8:45 am
> “In other words, supporters won’t be getting that money back.”
If I remember correctly, the funds are currently going into escrow, and they’ll only be released to Sono if the target is reached.
Having said that, personally I wouldn’t risk the money, since it’d be lost of the target was reached, but turns out not to be enough.
- MemberDecember 21, 2022 at 9:28 am
Yes, the money is going into escrow until the goal of 3,500 full deposits is reached in 38 days. The problem is, there is no reason they cannot artificially reach that goal by using other funds.
In the past 24 hours they gained only 21.4 full deposits. They need 68/day to reach their goal in the next 38 days. The rebates are falling. They won’t make it from “community members” alone.
They need to survive. They WILL reach the goal of 3,500 deposits by any means necessary to absorb the escrow accounts. They have no choice. Once the money is absorbed, you can only hope you will see your car.
- ModeratorDecember 23, 2022 at 7:17 am
I hope Aptera will have a video with details like this one:
- MemberDecember 24, 2022 at 7:29 am
The Scion deposit site says the 50 day campaign for 3,500 full deposits “can be extended once for 40 days.” They will move the goalposts and do whatever is necessary to keep your deposit.
I hope they make it, but you might not see your car.
- ModeratorJanuary 9, 2023 at 4:35 am
Things are not looking good for the #savesion campaign – with just over two weeks to go, they are still only about 1/3 of the way to the goal.
- MemberJanuary 9, 2023 at 9:18 am
My call is that they’ll abandon #savesion because the campaign seems to have run out of steam. The only point in extending it is if a) there is still funding coming in at an adequate rate to make reaching the goal plausible (rather than simply feeding the burn-rate), or b) some big investor comes along and offers a big chunk of funding.
- MemberJanuary 9, 2023 at 7:17 am
Time to move the goalposts. When the countdown clock reaches 10 days, they need to add 40 more and start over at the original 50 day countdown. They have already stated they are allowed “one extension period of 40 days.”
They can also add contributions from other sources such as “subordinated loans and gifts” to reach their goal. Not all the money need come from the community. Sion tour in Europe doesn’t seem to be bringing in the full priced deposits they hoped for. I hope they reach their goal, and this is not the future for Aptera.
- This reply was modified 8 months, 3 weeks ago by Michael Sirr. Reason: spelling
- ModeratorJanuary 10, 2023 at 10:09 am
Not sure if it’s moving of goal posts, desperation or just a marketing scheme but a new Youtube video from Sono has the following description:
“Our CFO Torsten has good news for you! More security for your money: We have decided to offer partial payment in three equal installments for down payments of 6,000 Euros or more. The partial payments are only due after defined milestones have been reached and at the earliest on fixed dates. In the video Torsten explains why we decided to do this, shows you the website and demonstrates how the partial payments work securely and flexibly.”
- ModeratorJanuary 12, 2023 at 7:38 am
Another attempt to get more reservation holders on board to pony up some money:
- MemberJanuary 12, 2023 at 8:33 pm
Undoubtedly true. Still, I wish them the best of luck. The market needs more “affordable” EVs, and even more with solar charging. I’m not concerned for Aptera as I don’t think that there is a lot of market overlap between the Aptera and the Sion. Sure, there are some who would be happy to have either one, but I doubt enough to have a significant effect on sales for either one.
- MemberJanuary 13, 2023 at 10:14 am
They already plan on moving the goalposts. See here:
“If the Minimum Threshold has not been reached by the end of 26
January, Sono Motors notifies you in text form that the deadline is
extended by 40 days, and the Minimum Threshold is then reached by
the end of 7 March 2023.
Also, they are not collecting all cash deposits like they imply. Some are promised or delayed – now into 3 payments. They will count promises the same as cash towards their goal. See here:
” acquire binding promises for payments and/or receive
actual payments totaling at least 104,650,000.00 euros.”
Bottom line. You will not be getting your deposit back if they can help it.
- ModeratorJanuary 21, 2023 at 6:22 am
Ironic that on the day Aptera comes out with the specs for the Launch Edition, Sono also puts out this video:
- ModeratorJanuary 26, 2023 at 6:24 am
As expected, Sono extended the SaveSion campaign till the end of next month – they raised about 1/2 what they wanted:
- MemberJanuary 26, 2023 at 8:42 pm
I just read this article. It doesn’t look so bright for solar EVs
- MemberJanuary 30, 2023 at 11:12 am
I feel sorry for the Dutchman who didn’t want to lose his money at the Sono webinar last month.
Sono says they will refund the deposits deposited by the Community IF the 100 million Euro goal is not reached. Sono is now less than half way to the goal. All Sono needs to do to absorb the depositors money is use these deposits as collateral at a bank, who then will loan them the money needed to reach the goal.
What happens then? The Community money is absorbed, the Bank has the Community money as collateral plus any interest on the Bank loan. All the Bank needs to insist on is that Sono does not spend the Bank’s money until they show viability. All the risk is to the Dutchmen. No risk to the Bank.
Sono has already said, loans will count toward the overall goal of 104,000,000 Euro.
- ModeratorFebruary 1, 2023 at 10:17 am
The solar panel details are outlined in this latest video:
- ModeratorFebruary 2, 2023 at 9:42 am
Sono posted another video about their solar panel production process:
They use cells from SOLAR CELLS (valoe.com) .
The cells seem to be similar to the Maxeon cells Aptera uses.
- ModeratorFebruary 9, 2023 at 4:25 am
Crash testing of the Sion:
An article about it: