Aptera › Community › Aptera Discussions › Security features and info
Security features and infoPosted by AssaultwBatteries on August 11, 2021 at 6:26 am
Will there be a feature similar to Tesla sentry mode available? This sev will no doubt attract attention good and bad. I was thinking it will be a good idea to include this feature to all Apterae.glenn-zajic replied 2 months, 1 week ago 35 Members · 48 Replies
Security features and infoglenn-zajic updated 2 months, 1 week ago 35 Members · 48 Replies
BikerModeratorAugust 11, 2021 at 7:06 am
Features like that (along with dog mode, etc) may not be available at launch but will likely come later as the firmware for the vehicle matures.
daniel-crottyMemberAugust 16, 2021 at 2:02 pm
Software in the car can “Warn” us if we are about to hit something.
Perhaps it should also be made to Beep if we are about to be hit. I recall watching my brother back into my car and I could not get his attention before the crunch. An Audible sound (&/or flashing lights) would get the attention of those nearby.
I have already tried to get people interested in having at a minimum a Dash-Cam option, or at least wiring and attachments already there on delivery. These too can be turned on to capture video of an incident.
daniel-crottyMemberAugust 16, 2021 at 4:01 pm
I added the auto driving stuff for my order. So I “assume” the sensors will be there. What sparked this thought was my being not in the car, and someone about to hit it. So why not blast an alert. That could get annoying in a parking lot, but I would rather hear it than the sound associated with a dent I am about to make.
At least some DashCams will start recording if something gets picked up and the car is parked.
lenModeratorAugust 16, 2021 at 4:06 pm
Yeah… I have no idea if it is part of that or std but…. I added everything to my preorder as I do not have to commit until it turns to an order and there should be plenty of Apetrae out there before my order comes due
arlen-bellMemberDecember 2, 2021 at 12:42 pm
Does anyone know yet what Aptera is planning regarding cameras for driver assist/self driving? I’d really like to see a camera security capability like what Tesla has. Aptera will look like nothing on the road and will attract a lot of attention. It would be good to be able to have a record of what goes on around it – driving and parked.
steve-leeMemberDecember 2, 2021 at 12:49 pm
I completely agree with you. We need a sentry mode on this vehicle. It looks so unique that it will elicit strong feelings positive or negative.
curtis-cibinelMemberDecember 2, 2021 at 1:26 pm
Since the vehicle has the camera’s already for rearview, mirrors and optionally forward for safetypilot (level 2) it should be possible to add in the future in software. Hopefully even if we dont have the feature day 1 we will have an infrastructure in the design that it can be added in future software update.
clifford-williamsMemberDecember 19, 2021 at 12:21 pm
Related to this indicating that the car is not moving I would like to suggest that all vehicles have lights indicating stopped, slowing, accelerating, or coasting. I searched and found a patent for similar lighting system. https://patents.google.com/patent/US20060125615
daniel-crottyMemberApril 21, 2022 at 5:33 pm
OK! If you have any doubts about the need for Cameras
Confronting Neighbor Who Keyed My Tesla! Cops Called!! – YouTube
Do you think our Aptera will be less likely to get Keyed because it costs less!
ADD the cameras! At least have an option.
ShawgrinMemberApril 21, 2022 at 5:55 pm
Even if Aptera is released without a camera security system, they are easy to install and a complete system with memory or cloud system costs as little as $250.00 (I just put one on my own vehicle with impact and motion detection front, rear and sides) for a 3 camera system. To do the same with the systems on the Aptera Roadster, it may interfere with present hardware and software. A self contained option is the quickest and least intrusive.
Note: typical installs take 30-60 minutes.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by Vernon Michael Gardner.
daniel-crottyMemberApril 22, 2022 at 10:18 am
I just googled this. I had seen the number before, so I’m assuming it is correct.
“Tesla cars have<strong style=”font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; letter-spacing: 0px;”> eight cameras around the vehicle.“
I do not know what the cost would be to install this on Aptera. Let’s say, buying bulk, they can be purchased $25, and probably a bunch less.
Sign me up to get it factory installed. Yeah, I know more storage, blah, blah, blah. It is worth it if it catches the guy who just smashed your windows or keyed your car, or whatever. Maybe an encounter with the police!
I want it on video.
If I have to wait another month to get it. No problem!
Installing a 2nd party system, myself! I don’t think you want me doing that to your car.
thomas-benelMemberApril 24, 2022 at 4:34 am
Sentry Mode – similar to what Tesla has. Don’t know what that is – search it out in YouTube. Plenty if videos. There was a use case where a guys “neighbor” keyed his car badly, police we involved and were able to give a citation with the option to have the owner go to court – or the neighbor could settle out of court.
Battling vandalism is huge, deterrence for theft. Factory installed and supported a HUGE plus!
rashid-clarkMemberApril 29, 2022 at 12:34 pm
I remember seeing an interview with Chris where he stated that he likes Tesla’s sentry-mode and wants to put in Aptera. Unfortunately I didn’t save a citation link, but here’s what I wrote in my notes:
“They are planning on having something like Tesla’s “sentry” mode (retaining camera footage useful for accidents). HOWEVER, it will not be released with it. If it happens, it will be a software update.”
curtis-cibinelMemberApril 29, 2022 at 5:13 pm
Its in the ambassador call from feb 2022 (sorry no timestamp)
matthew-crawfordMemberJune 15, 2022 at 4:09 am
I loved seeing the electrical system testing setup in the QA yesterday, but the announcement that you’re planning to use Bluetooth with an app as an alternate unlock method raised all kinds of red flags.
This article talks about how Tesla’s can be unlocked due to a major flaw in Bluetooth security:
You need to stop all work on using bluetooth and instead focus on implementing the Car Connectivity Consortium’s Digital Key standard. This is what Apple uses for the CarKey feature in Apple Wallet and Google also has their own implementation of this for Android. The latest version of this standard uses ultrawideband chips to allow you to unlock your car and start it just by having your phone in your pocket or a compatible smartwatch on your wrist (Like the Apple Watch). This also provides a number of useful features such as letting people share the key with family and control what the shared key can do. For example a parent could share the key with their kids, but only allow them to unlock the car and not actually start it.
Considering the fact that you’re already using NFC cards as the regular keys and that’s part of this standard, it shouldn’t be too much more work to expand that into full use of the standard.
More information here:
- This reply was modified 7 months ago by bbelcamino.
- This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by Gabriel Kemeny.
paul-evansMemberJune 15, 2022 at 6:07 am
Great catch, Matthew. I wholeheartedly agree with your position!
I read the CCC’s whitepaper and it does support the use of Bluetooth Low Energy use in combination with Ultra Wideband for Digital Key authentication.
I’m hoping that the electrical system testing component presentation mentioned Bluetooth as a shorthand version of the CCC Digital Key Release 3.0.
Digital Keys and Public Key Infrastructure (PKI) concepts are difficult to explain to an average person, usually resulting in lots of exploded brains. 🤕
I’ll email Aptera to clarify what they meant.
curtis-cibinelMemberJune 15, 2022 at 7:17 am
In the case of Aptera their planned solution has fairly easy way to make this attack far less practical; the sound of knocks themselves (something tesla and others don’t include). The exact timing (to a fraction of a ms thanks to ntp) can be used. Since the attacker can’t edit the message and has lag and the precise timing and relative gap in the sounds can be measured by the phone (in response to proximity so it doesn’t always record). If they use the knocks this takes the attack from somewhat tricky to largely theoretical.
The only way I see the get around this would be a device placed on the aptera made to perform the taps with exact characteristics and the near user attacking device to also make the same sound. They could then perform the attack at an exact predetermined time which would require the autotapper on the car and the near user attacker in proximity.
The only other Bluetooth option (beyond those mentioned in the article) for tesla / Bluetooth locks that could use is some user interaction added on the phone (or smart watch). This could be clicking a button or an authenticated voice wakeup command with os support (ie hey Google/siri unlock car).
Nfc could also be used but this would require physically touching the device to the vehicle (like tap based payment).
john-smith-2MemberJune 15, 2022 at 7:39 am
How many cars have been stolen using this method? Is this making a major problem out of something that is not a problem? Theory vs reality or possibility vs probability.
BrassaxeMemberJune 17, 2022 at 6:38 am
I think the security concerns of getting into the car are entirely different than those for Starting/Driving the car. If entry and driving have different authentification methods I see no issue using your phone to get into the car an not start it.
matthew-crawfordMemberJune 17, 2022 at 4:49 pm
One other advantage of using the Digital Key standard is that both the iPhone and Apple Watch implementation allow the phone/watch to still function as a key even after the battery is dead. It isn’t indefinitely, but it does function for several hours. An app using Bluetooth will never be capable of doing this.
I don’t know if any Android phones have this functionality, but the advantages to using the standard are far greater than rolling your own system. Not just for the improved security, but also for the other features I mentioned, like sharing keys with kids that only allow them to unlock the door and being able to easily revoke the access at any time.
tim-deanMemberJune 17, 2022 at 6:36 pm
Combine with facial recognition should be very secure. The Aptera has enough cameras.
john-w-darby-darbyMemberJuly 2, 2022 at 8:21 pm
WILL THERE BE A VEHICLE ALARM SYSTEM? WILL THERE BE A VEHICLE ALARM SYSTEM?
Will There be a Vehicle Alarm System?
- This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by Wyatt Andrews.
- This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by Gabriel Kemeny.
kerbe2705MemberJuly 2, 2022 at 11:39 pm
@JOHN W. DARBY This topic has been posted several times lately – please search for it to read the discussion.
It’s still too early to know which accessory systems will and will not be available: Aptera is working to create a manufacturable vehicle and many aspects have not yet been “set in stone”.
joshua-caldwellMemberJuly 3, 2022 at 9:24 am
Vehicle Alarms are so commonly activated by their owners at home or by people trying to find their car in a parking lot that they have become largely ignored by everyone else nearby.
What I would appreciate would be an anti-theft tracking system given the uniqueness of this vehicle strongly raising its likelihood of being stolen. Also, given its expected low production, it would be difficult or take a very long time to get another to replace the stolen one, unlike a Honda, Toyota, or Ford where you can simply pick up an identical vehicle at a dozen dealerships within 20 minutes of you.
3-DMemberJuly 9, 2022 at 7:29 pm
please have a dash cam. its a basic feature.
- This reply was modified 11 months ago by Gabriel Kemeny. Reason: Fix title
- This reply was modified 9 months, 4 weeks ago by Gabriel Kemeny.
kerbe2705MemberJuly 9, 2022 at 7:47 pm
@Dustin DelRosso It may be a basic feature to you but, at present, there are fewer than a dozen vehicle models sold in the US that come with a factory dashcam system – but there are DOZENS of companies selling aftermarket systems.
IMHO I think it would be a terrific optional accessory for Aptera to offer.
OCS12MemberJuly 10, 2022 at 10:26 am
I put dash cams in all my vehicles. They’re worth their weight in gold. However, I wouldn’t expect Aptera to offer them. The laws regarding them vary state by state and it probably isn’t worth the headache.
ShawgrinMemberJuly 10, 2022 at 11:07 am
Dash cams are catching on. Dash cams are optional equipment on many of the new cars I have been looking at. Dash cams are not only great for truth in road incidents, but for security while parked. I have a dash cam in every car. Most dash cams are easy to move from one vehicle to another.