Security features and info

[mark-hardin]

The plethora of cameras built into the Aptera is a great advantage in many ways!
*Especially* if they also function the way common dashcams do, recording at least the forward and rearward views for X minutes, with options to download those stored videos.
However, I haven’t seen any info on such a feature.
If there is such info available, can you point me to it?
If not, then are options for recording / downloading being discussed?
TIA😎

[OZ.]

Chris Anthony has mentioned that there will probably be a “Sentry Feature”/Dashcam feature, but it will not be on the earliest models. Hopefully it will be something that can be added with a software update/upgrade as most if not all of the needed cameras, will already be a basic part of the vehicle.

[mark-hardin]

A built-in ability to record requires onboard memory chips solely for that purpose. Since it’s not simply a software matter, dashcam-type record features need to be designed in, not as a later upgrade.
And since *no* Aptera owner is going to want to jerry-rig some third-party dashcam wiring into their vehicle (and adding *yet another* totally redundant camera!), it really does need to be a standard feature.
Properly done, this should not be an expensive thing to do, and it would be totally in keeping with Aptera’s across-the-board intelligent design.

[daniel-crotty]

I have a similar post I want CAR CAMERAS The point is …..

Design for it now and not have Backers cramming stuff in !

Are the wires included in those wiring packages from (forgot the name of the company)?

If there is an additional screen, where will it go? I would think not a new screen, but accessed if needed from the large one, or an app.

Where will the cameras be? Let’s have some pre-designed aerodynamic spots. Do you prefer to have to cut holes in the body in order to put in a 3d party set of cameras.

That does NOT mean that it has to be included day 1, but, when it is available, it should be a minimal install.

As Mark said today “Properly done, this should not be an expensive thing to do, and it would
be totally in keeping with Aptera’s across-the-board intelligent
design.” Installing it in next year to a this year car, probably not so much! The biggest problem should be the software.

[mark-hardin]

Daniel, as I understand it there are already at least four cameras in place:
– both left and right rear-view cameras (Aptera hopes to have these totally replacing drag-inducing rearview mirrors)
– backup camera
– central rearview camera
…so why would anyone want to crudely add still more cheesy third-party stick-on dash cameras (forward and rearward) to their beautiful Aptera?

[Mangoat]

I’m curious about what kind(s) of security the Aptera will have. Recently I’ve heard of Teslas being targeted and stolen. Apparently, with Tesla vehicles, it isn’t too difficult to disable the alarm without even getting into the vehicle. Takes the thieves roughly 5 minutes to snag a Tesla and it’s gone. I watch a YT channel where the host has had his Tesla stolen once and nearly a 2nd time, but he caught them in the act. I have a reservation on the Aptera. Even invested in the company. Looking forward to driving one. I worry about all the EV-targeted thefts going around. Most of all the Aptera has the front wheels the way they are. What sort of security is on those? Are those cables easily cut or removed by a thief? Would like to know that the Aptera has a good security system installed.

[john-trotter]

Theft of modern cars is far more difficult than it used to be. I truly doubt that Tesla or EVs generally have an increased risk. I can turn my Tesla Model Y off remotely, but I have never heard of anyone needing that feature. Window beak-ins are relatively common, but that’s true of most cars as well.

As for risk of front wheel theft, I’m not sure there is as much difference as it might appear. Simple wheel theft is the same or perhaps harder as on any car because the lug nuts are largely hidden. Stealing more than a wheel would involve vehicle disassembly and I’m not sure what the protection might be in that case. At least there is no catalytic converter to remove!

[laura-batchelor]

I would be willing to pay for the option to have a recording security camera system for all of those reasons mentioned – fake insurance accident scam, parking lot vandals, liars, accidents that need court proof, insurance claims… preferably factory installed.

[glenn-zajic]

I am with you on that, as I believe most of us are. We would need a forward facing camera, which so far has not been addressed. It might be something they can feature with the driver assist system but we don’t know yet. To me personally just a good sentry mode (stand alone) would be worth at least a few hundred if not more.

[chris-merriott]

Any new word on whether Apterae will have Sentry mode? I believe it’s an incredibly necessary feature given the attention this car will receive. Especially in high crime cities.

• This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  Chris Merriott.

[Biker]

Given the recent comment from Chris A about the power consumption of some ADAS (1300W) vs the very low power needed for OpenPilot (35W), it’s very unlikely that Aptera would implement such a feature for a while (sentry mode is very power hungry – 12kwh/day in a Tesla). Also, it is unclear which, if any, of the existing cameras (which don’t cover any of the front of the vehicle) are recordable.

[john-malcom]

Agreed!

Makes no sense for Aptera to Implement a feature that is power hungry given their ethos for efficiency especially if it would require additional hardware, cost/price increase, and additional time for engineering and production changes.

It certainly is not a necessity. I owned a Tesla Model 3 and never used it. Now own a 2023 Bolt which is not equipped with it. Never missed it in either vehicle.

• This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  John Malcom. Reason: Corrected spelling
• This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  John Malcom. Reason: Corrected spelling
• This reply was modified 6 months, 1 week ago by  John Malcom.

[Mike-Mars]

I think what most people want is basically a multichannel dashcam (with parking mode) setup which utilises the built-in cameras (plus a forward facing one). There’s no reason that it needs as much power as the Tesla system provided the cameras can be run independently of the main computer.

Retrofitting a thirdparty dashcam might be awkward if you want a decent rear view since the hatch isn’t clear, whereas there are 4 rear cameras already installed…

• This reply was modified 6 months ago by  Michael Marsden.

[john-malcom]

Perhaps they do, and perhaps sometime in the future of Aptera, they may have that or at least some implementation of that functionality. But all that follow this forum should know at this point that no new functionality will be added to the LE configuration for at least the first few thousands of production units. Aptera enthusiasts are enterprising by nature. With “Right to repair” some one or some third party, if demand is sufficient to justify development and distribution costs, will develop and offer a solution. So, until either Aptera or some third party moves forward, owners will be on their own.

[ROMAD]

Then again with all their secrecy, Aptera MAY surprise us!

[chris-merriott]

Yeah I’m not expecting a forcefield, just a couple cameras that can record when people activate a motion sensor. Seems like it wouldn’t require much.

[scott-ullerich]

You would miss it if someone backed into you in a parking lot and took off. That happened to me a couple months ago. Caught the whole thing on camera from four different angles including her face, car and license plate number from my Tesla sentry system. Instead of me or my insurance company having to pay the $8K repair bill it landed in her lap and she’s lucky I didn’t go after her for hit and run. Countless YouTube videos showing perps getting caught in the act.

[chris-merriott]

This and intentional vandalism are exactly why I think it’s something that should be strongly considered at least as a feature of the Aptera. Too many Teslas have been keyed for reasons unknown. Given that this would likely be pooled in with Tesla, I’m certain there will be stories from all over about this same behavior to Apterae.

[daniel-crotty]

I replied to this long ago. While I do want the security option, I asked that at a minimum, they prepare for it now.

There should be a place for any extra cameras so they can simply be screwed in and attach a wire. I really prefer that it be a built-in solution that uses the existing display, and I don’t have one more dangle obstruction my view. But that should be mostly a software thing.

Video storage (an SSD) may be needed, so where will it go. Instead of having us fish wire, makeshift space and whatever else, think about that now. Actually, think about in many months ago when this topic was first raised.

It’s a bit late now, isn’t it. Then, many just say leave them alone so they can get the first one out the door. There is a price to pay for that too.

[john-malcom]

Everything is a tradeoff, but especially at this point. Two number one priorities. Getting enough capital to go into production with a sufficient number of units to make a revenue difference. Low volume will not do much good. The second number one priority, getting into volume production as soon as possible. That means few if any changes and no additions (Only the ones needed to remediate defects from testing) Wanting a lot of “Stuff” on a vehicle that failed to go into production because the company became insolvent, has no value to an enthusiast that has an empty space in their driveway for an Aptera with or without the “Stuff” they wanted. Yes, my personal opinion, too late.

[chris-merriott]

Appreciate everyone’s input. I was simply wondering if anyone had heard someone from Aptera mention this recently.

[mark-hardin]

A few last thoughts on this topic –

– John Malcolm seems to believe that the addition of a dashcam system would somehow immobilize getting Aptera into production, that it’s a mutually-exclusive matter, a “tradeoff” as he calls it. This is hardly the case: there are plenty of companies that can walk and chew gum at the same time.
– In fact, there are third-party vendors who just might be very happy to integrate their off-the-shelf dashcam systems into the Aptera. The added weight of a PCB is negligible; all that would be required from Aptera would be splitters for video signal and power, and the addition of the display and control options in software…most of which might be able to be handled by the supplier.
– My understanding of the side rearview cameras is that for states mandating physical mirrors, these will attach at the same mounting points as the slim camera-bearing stalks (but will still carry cameras). So, despite the monolithic intent of the L.E., there *will* be some small, minor-impact options to be chosen. The dashcam could easily be another such low-impact, nearly-invisible option (+$).
– Also bear in mind that we are now *likely* at least eight months away from actual production: a lot of little under-the dash things can still happen in that interim period.

– All that said:
A year or more ago, I had heard that there would be a forward-facing camera as a standard Aptera feature. Apparently that is no longer the case – but a forward camera is of course mandatory for a dashcam system.
So until I hear otherwise, I am abandoning this soapbox and will sadly resign myself to an ugly, third-party, retrofit dashcam on my otherwise-sleek-and-beautiful Aptera. 😒

[john-malcom]

Mark H: It is not a matter of “Walk and chew gum at the same time”. It is a matter of where you allocate scarce resources. ($ and people time) It is most certainly a tradeoff from the beginning but most certainly now when there is a small staff and little or no money. If you think not, then you have no R&D experience or naïve.

Yes, there are third party vendors who could integrate product into the Aptera. But you must pay them to do so, change your design to accommodate the change, change your production process to do the same, and modify the supply chain to have different parts available. All of this takes time, money, and staff away from planned and scheduled tasks focused on production of the already designed and provisioned vehicle.

Because I have no idea what is going on internally in Aptera, I trust the engineering team and management to make decisions that will result in the lowest cost (And therefore price) of an Aptera in the quickest time possible.

If this functionality is really important to you and other Aptera enthusiasts, you are free to engage and pay for a third party to provide sentry functionality just as you have pointed out in your post.

For those that will equip their Aptera with open.pilot ADAS, open.pilot uses a front facing camera to collect image input for ADAS functionality.

[mark-hardin]

John Malcolm,

Your own reference to Aptera’s decision to integrate the OpenPilot ADAS system as an option is a pretty decent example of what I’m talking about. While OpenPilot is open-source code and not a third-party vendor, Aptera’s decision to hire Chris McCammon was based in part on his familiarity with the software: they obviously felt that having OpenPilot as an option was a beneficial sales tool, and therefore worth investing in Chris’ time to implement it.
From their own website:
<Aptera aims to deliver an openpilot™-capable vehicle and ship compatible hardware post-delivery to be installed by the customer in less than 30 minutes.>
Note that this decision had nothing to do with achieving “the lowest cost… of an Aptera in the quickest time possible”.

Similarly, offering an integrated dashcam system as a user-installable option could be viewed as a selling point worth *some* internal time and money….especially if Aptera’s investment in the adaptation was minimal.

Regarding third-party vendors integrating their product, here’s how that works when negotiations are good:
– Company A approaches candidate vendor(s), convincing them that A’s product will become increasingly popular over time
– A deal is struck whereby both companies share some percentages of the income when a customer selects this added option
– The outside vendor sees the long-term advantage of this additional sales outlet as worth the up-front investment of adapting their (existing) package to the needs of Company A, thereby minimizing the overall cost to Company A.
Hope that gives you some insight.

In the dashcam’s case, this would largely be a matter of adapting/integrating the dashcam vendor’s existing display software into the vehicle’s display. This collaboration would be where some Aptera cost might be incurred. Otherwise, (as already stated) IF a front-facing camera were already present in the Aptera, then all that Aptera would need to provide would be the splitter points for the cameras and power, and a clip-in location for the vendor’s (tiny) PCB….all very minimal alterations.

However, an integrated dashcam option for Aptera must not be dependent upon first purchasing the OpenPilot option. So without that standard forward-facing camera, I don’t see the integrated dashcam happening at present.

*This product designer – who is both ‘inexperienced’ AND ‘naïve’ – will refrain from labeling Mr. Malcolm with similar epithets.🤐

[john-malcom]

Well…here is another view from a vehicle R&D engineer/tech lead/project manager/program manager/partner in three successful startups With over 50 years of experience who was asked by Aptera if I had any recommendations on a partner for the Aptera ADAS early in Aptera development. Originally, Aptera was going with a Japanese company for ADAS functionality. As you know, eventually, through their TRADEOFF ANALYSIS, they selected comma.ai’s open.pilot. If it wasn’t functionality vs. cost vs. COTS vs. local partner vs. minimizing development and production impact vs. schedule impact why do you think their tradeoff analysis resulted in Selecting open.pilot?

You are extremely fortunate to have always worked where there was no constraints on funding, available resources, or schedule pressure for your product development requiring tradeoff analysis.

That is Malcom with one l.

• This reply was modified 6 months ago by  John Malcom.