All about the Tesla plug and charging

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions All about the Tesla plug and charging

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions All about the Tesla plug and charging

  • All about the Tesla plug and charging

     Mark Brandon updated 5 days, 19 hours ago 47 Members · 118 Posts
  • George Hughes

    Member
    July 22, 2022 at 10:35 am

    Pistonboy:

    I can tell by your name you’ve come a bit late to the electrification party since if you were a legacy EV user of the musky kind, you’d already have the Level 2 Tesla EVSE.

    Being an EV fanboy with a Spark EV and Gen 1 Volt in the stable; I’m just fine with a J1772 connector on Aptera because I’ve already got the home-charging setup.

    Fact is, I’m more concerned if Diego is going to stuff a 3.3kw or 6.6kw (or larger) onboard level 2 charger. I think my EVSE – its been like four-years since installation – is on a 50 amp circuit and at least capable of fully juicing a 6.6kw L2 charging connection. Of course I’ve never used it as both the Chevy’s onboard chargers are limited to the s…l…o…w 3.3kw rate with the shorthand capability of adding, at 10.0 mi per kwh, over 250 miles in an 8-hour overnight session.

    The use of a 6.6kw (or larger) onboard L2 charger whether of the Tesla or J1772 variety would literally double that to over 500 miles of charging from a 240v EVSE in an overnight 8-hr session.

    Considering I’ve already got a capable EVSE with a J1772 connector, I’m okay if Aptera uses that approach but would consider adding another EVSE for the Tesla connector if it offered an elegant V2H or V2G connection. Given the circuit that powers the EVSE is more than capable of charging maybe three 3.3kw equipped EVs, if the Tesla connector/EVSE provided interactive connections, I might add a second EVSE (right now we can charge both EVs – one at 110 and the other at 220v – during low TOU rates).

    My point is best understood when you grasp that from the old days of computing, I’ve been in the open standards camp and chose PC’s over Mac’s because I detest proprietary models. To me any closed system is doomed because its path through time is subtly limited. Evolution requires a greater degree of chaos to work.

    This mindset results in a slight aversion to all things Tesla with my proof being I’ve never had an ‘i-phone, pad, or whatever else. The origins come from the geo-cultural influence of working in media and advertising in, at least what was the knock-off furniture making capitol – Fort Smith, AR in the ’70s and ’80’s.

    I’d also point out the observations of Nikki on Transport Evolved when she talked about the suburban, exurban, rural markets for EVs. This is my use case and the key understanding is that the distances are greater for folks living in both the extended suburbs and rural areas.

    Given these more rural areas have less reliable electric services, the proliferation of TOU utility rates and other factors make customers from these areas open to the cost savings possible, say when you use your vehicle to take your abode off the grid during top rate times. The savings from this kind of use would certainly pay for the earlier replacement time for the batteries — ten years instead of 20 — and create a replacement market for newer, more capable, even cheaper batteries.

    If adopting the Tesla plug by Aptera or, as management suggests, making it the USA standard, I’m all for it. If it includes V2H capabilities, it will make Aptera a must have in suburban and rural areas, thanks in large part to the federal government’s creation of rural electric co-ops through FDRs REA program. The following is from the REA energy co-op website:

    Take a minute and imagine what your life would be like without electricity. Then think about what rural areas throughout Pennsylvania must have been like without electricity 75+ years ago. Before 1935 electricity was available only to people who lived in or near cities or larger towns. In fact many people believed that farm families did not want – or even need – electricity. Things began to change rapidly, however, when President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed an executive order on May 11, 1935, creating the Rural Electrification Administration (REA), a branch of the U.S. Department of Agriculture charged with lending money to help get electricity to rural areas. Private companies could see little profit in rural areas. It wasn’t long before neighbors joined together to create nonprofit cooperatives in their area; cooperatives could borrow money from REA to build electrical systems.

    • Bob Kirchner

      Member
      July 22, 2022 at 1:49 pm

      As a tangent from the topic at hand, the REA looks like a decent model to promote rural internet access.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    July 22, 2022 at 5:08 pm

    The jury is still out on 3.3kw vs. some other level of charging for production Aptere. If weight and cost are truly factors (I hope they are) then it will be 3.3kw which is more than adequate for the efficient Aptera. Even the 110 plug is adequate especially with full solar.

    As a long time engineer (Old) I vigorously support standards. I see no future for the current version of the Tesla plug even for Tesla. (I use one for my Model 3) Aptera efforts to make it a national standard are concerning to me. They are good engineers and should know better.

    In the end, the onboard charger and the charge plug selection are down in the nits for me. I have no problem living with the final choices in either case because the Aptera is such an overall amazing vehicle.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      July 22, 2022 at 6:19 pm

      @John Malcom When they decide that Aptera MUST have an 8-track player, THEN I’m gonna start worrying! 🤣

      • Dennis Swaney

        Member
        July 22, 2022 at 9:33 pm

        What about a 4-track player, or even a 45 player?

        • kerbe2705

          Member
          July 23, 2022 at 6:22 pm

          @Dennis Swaney Perhaps you’re too young to know but, before the advent of reliable audio cassettes, the prerecorded 8-track tape cartridge player was the audio device of choice in many vehicles. Of course no one called them “8-track tape cartridge players” – common nomenclature was, simply, “8-track”.

          • Dennis Swaney

            Member
            July 23, 2022 at 7:16 pm

            Ah, I REMEMBER the PRECURSORS to the 8-Track cartridge: the 4-Track, and before that the 45 record player. In my high school electronics class, we worked on one of the 45 players. Since this was 55 years ago, I can’t recall if we were successful or not.

            The main physical difference between the 4 & 8 tracks, was the 4 had a large hole in the bottom of the cartridge for, IIRC, the pinch roller. The 8 track was developed from the 4 track and eliminated that hole. Remember “Mad Man” Muntz? He popularized the 4-track as the “Stereo-Pak”. Bill Lear of LearJet fame developed the “Stereo 8” cartridge with an integral pinch roller from the 4 track; by the end of the 60s, the 4-track was dead as the DoDo.

            • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by  Dennis Swaney.
    • Dennis Swaney

      Member
      July 22, 2022 at 9:36 pm

      Good engineers made the BetaMax; so-so engineers made VHS. Good quality lost to so-so “its’ good enough to get by” thinking and design.

  • Pistonboy Delux

    Member
    July 23, 2022 at 2:32 pm

    99% of my charging will be done at my home. Since this is 99% of my charging, I want it to be the most convenient method, and that is the Tesla connector. For the rare 1% of the time I charge outside my home, I can easily use an adaptor (if needed).

    Aptera having the Tesla connector makes sense, whether we use the Tesla charging network or not.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      July 23, 2022 at 5:30 pm

      For me the most convenient charging and more than adequate for the Aptera would be a 110 plug

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      July 23, 2022 at 6:19 pm

      @Pistonboy Delux Does this mean that you already own a Tesla Wall Connector or a Tesla Mobile Connector?

      • Pistonboy Delux

        Member
        September 22, 2022 at 9:02 pm

        I own no EV so I own no charging equipment.

        I have reservations, though, for both the Aptera and Cybertruck, and I intend to get both.

        I will go from carbureted vehicles to electric vehicles, and jump over the vehicles with so much hosing the engine can not even be seen.

        • Riley …

          Member
          September 23, 2022 at 4:21 am

          I swapped my carburetor for a fuel injection carb (holly sniper) and visually looks stock while having much better drivability.

  • Gordon Niessen

    Member
    July 23, 2022 at 8:05 pm

    I am only going to need fast charging when traveling on vacation. But I feel the Tesla port will fit better with the esthetics of the Aptera. If you are going to make a futuristic vehicle, you don’t want to have a cludgy CCS1 port. More EVs on the road today use the Tesla port. It is more of a standard. At $50-75 for a J1772 to Tesla adapter, I am fine with it. And I am not likely to need to need much else. I doubt I would ever need to use a CCS1 to Tesla adapter, given the better Tesla charging network.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      July 23, 2022 at 8:57 pm

      I believe the wrong criteria for selecting the type of charging plug is “Aesthetic fit”.

      More appropriate would be compliance with a standard that has legs and will be in place for a long time and one that is being adopted by all other EV manufacturers for US sales regardless of country of manufacture. And of course, compliant with the government preferred protocol that will be using $ 7B to build out the US charging infrastructure. Also the one Tesla will now be adding to their charging network, CCS.

      I drive a Tesla and still feel this way.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      July 23, 2022 at 9:34 pm

      @Gordon Niessen Although Tesla Superchargers have more individual dispensers than there are CCS dispensers, there are nearly twice as many CCS charging SITES in the US and Canada.

      I’d feel better having more options when traveling, not limiting my charging opportunities to one “brand”: The CCS1-Tesla adaptor is large, heavy and expensive, and those who’ve used them say that they are none too easy to connect – and keep connected – to the vehicle.

      Adapters of any stripe are just another link in the “potential failure” chain…

  • Simon Meyer

    Member
    August 14, 2022 at 7:17 am

    With an estimated max charge rate of most packs at 50Kw, Aptera would be leaving 200Kw un-utilized (or more with version 4 superchargers on the horizon). Using a Supercharger would the equivalent of using an F1 vehicle to go shopping. You can do it, but it is a waste of potential.

    That said, I have 2 teslas and an Aptera reservation so I am hoping like crazy that Tesla open up the protocol and the network, just not sure how they will implement it.

    • Jeffrey Parker

      Member
      August 14, 2022 at 11:38 am

      With an estimated max charge rate of 30W, your phone charger would be leaving 1.7kW unutilized (or more with 20A plugs, 30A plugs, 50A plugs available). Using NEMA 5-15 is overkill and would be the equivalent of using a microwave to cook a turkey. You could do it but but it’s a waste of potential.

      With that said, I have a computer on order that is planned to use more power than a phone and less than a microwave, I hope they come up with a plug that meets the need of the computer’s power needs and nothing else

      • Simon Meyer

        Member
        August 14, 2022 at 12:52 pm

        True, but there is not a line of people queued up behind you to use your ubiquitous power outlet. Many Tesla owners are already in two minds as whether opening up the Supercharger network is a good thing or not. Especially if you live in CA where there can already be congestion for charging on key dates. I can see exactly the argument I have outlined being used against Aptera.

        Like I said, I’m all for it. Efficient, it is not.

        • Jeffrey Parker

          Member
          August 14, 2022 at 1:12 pm

          When there is a quantity of plugs to satiate the userbase, then the outlet that serves the most devices is best.

          A special plug for certain devices that restricts its use to other devices is just asinine. Much like older computer device connections, serial ports were replaced by USB. Nearly every device under the limits of USB use USB. As the USB standard grew, more devices could be made to the USB standard while the older devices can still connect to the newer ports.

          There is no need to have a port that only thumb drives can use while a printer needs a different port. And now the same port that a mouse can use can also be used as a monitor output, data connection, audio output, and many others.

  • Philip Sandiford

    Member
    August 17, 2022 at 9:00 am
  • Jonah Jorgenson

    Member
    August 17, 2022 at 11:03 am

    Good find.

    I am a Tesla owner. Now the network will be swamped when other than Tesla EV owners get an adapter and want to charge at the lower maximum rate for their EVs if they have 800V or other high charge requirements. Good for the EV industry and I guess Aptera with a Tesla plug as all Aptera owners can now use Tesla chargers. Hopefully at the same charging cost as Tesla owners pay.

    Also opens up government money to Tesla they would otherwise not be qualified to apply for.

    This should make Steve happy!

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      August 18, 2022 at 7:51 pm

      @Jonah Jorgenson “Hopefully at the same charging cost as Tesla owners pay.” Prolly unlikely, as part of the purchase price of Tesla vehicles goes to finance the Supercharger system: The price Tesla drivers pay “at the pump” reflects the fact that they’ve already paid to use the system.

      One of the Euro YouTube personalities (sorry, I forget which one) said the fee for charging a non-Tesla at a Supercharger was twice that of charging a Tesla, making the price competitive with other CCS charging networks.

  • Jeffrey Parker

    Member
    August 17, 2022 at 12:27 pm

    So, let me know if I understand this?

    To charge at a Tesla station, I need to have an account with Tesla to even access the ability to charge?

    Question, in an ICE vehicle do you need an account to fill your tank at a Shell, or Texaco, or whatever? Or do you want a Ford gas station that only sells to people that sign up for Ford’s Fuel Up?

    On the other hand, I believe I would be able to pull up to an Electrify America station and use a credit or debit or gift card and pay for access to the ability to charge without having to give them contact info.

    I’d much rather not need an account to a provider of something I can get from someone else somewhere else down the road.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 12:37 pm

      Tesla likes their general look. The big box DCFC units for other brands with the ability to pay directly with a credit card adds complexity. Any charge network can potentially limit to app based payments. Ideally the centralized systems/standards to achieve plug and charge with any network using ISO 15118 will come eventually so things can be even more smooth. Personally I have no issue with an app being installed for the largest single network in North America; better than installing an app for every fastfood place. Given that Aptera will almost certainly ship with a Tesla plug the non-supercharger options will be few and far between so it is still a better experience than most users of CCS DCFC options.

      • John Voules

        Member
        August 17, 2022 at 1:00 pm

        If I may add. Depending on where you are traveling or where you are living, you may have a better option for your charging needs. I more than likely will not be using Tesla chargers too often. I charge at home and have several free places for me to go to on the road when near by.

        In longer road trips Chicago – Seattle, I’m sure that the Tesla chargers will be more convenient. More than likely, until I’m ready to use Tesla’s network, I won’t sign up to use them. Every body I’m sure will have their own scenario from which they can make informative decisions.

    • Pistonboy Delux

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 5:12 pm

      Then do not use the Tesla charging network.

      Problem solved !

    • Tim Polen

      Member
      August 18, 2022 at 3:20 pm

      That’s the game for EV charging. It sucks. I have to carry a Greenlots RFID Keychain, a Chargepoint mini-card, an EVgo prox card (thankfully credit card sized), and eventually an EA card just to use most DC stations around me. Tesla is the only one where I just plug in.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      August 18, 2022 at 7:45 pm

      @Jeffrey Parker Remember that Tesla vehicles talk directly to Tesla Superchargers and that all Tesla vehicles have Supercharger payment accounts. Tesla Superchargers don’t have screens or card readers or RFID scanners so the only way for a non-Tesla to activate them is via an app.

      Back in the day there were two ways to buy fuel at Shell or Texaco or whatever: Cash or a company-specific credit card. Gas pumps didn’t accept bank cards or debit cards or Visa or Mastercard or whatever – I carried six different fuel-company credit cards in my wallet for many years.

      From all reports, the Electrify America app is much more reliable than trying to use the frequently-vandalized on-dispenser card readers, plus the app offers pricing discount plans which might not be available to “cash” customers.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        August 18, 2022 at 9:30 pm

        Hopefully Aptera supports plug and charge via the iso standard with superchargers. Setup the payment via the app once then ignore; not a big deal.

  • Chris Merriott

    Member
    August 17, 2022 at 1:02 pm

    I just downloaded the app out of curiosity. There is a new feature for non-Tesla charging but it appears that there is only one station available on the network in the US that’s in LA, but it’s a privately owned charger. Seems like they have the software ready but not the infrastructure.

    • Tim Polen

      Member
      August 18, 2022 at 3:25 pm

      No Adapters on the Tesla store yet, either. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    August 17, 2022 at 5:22 pm

    Right now tesla’s software for non-tesla would make the assumption all of them are CCS. New adapters will be needed if the existing network is to be opened to ccs cars. For aptera (and potentially others with tesla plug or adapters) they would likely need to further enhance the software (and potentially supercharger firmware) to address this scenario. Hopefully we don’t end up with the first few months of Aptera owners having no dcfc options while this tesla software work is addressed.

    • Wayne Forkum

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 6:02 pm

      Since Aptera has pushed back delivery, AGAIN, their is plenty of time.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 6:33 pm

      Thanks. Some things here I had not thought of. I think a while before Aptera owners can use Tesla chargers even if we have the “Great” Tesla plug.

  • Michael Marsden

    Member
    August 18, 2022 at 4:24 am

    From the Tesla website: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/support/non-tesla-supercharging#on-site

    Do Supercharger posts support all connector types?

    This pilot is only accessible for CCS-enabled vehicles. If a Supercharger post has two cables, Non-Tesla cars can only charge with the CCS connector. If the connector does not fit your car, please report it to Tesla Customer Support.

    ____________________

    If I read this properly, any CCS vehicle will be able to charge at superchargers (once the V4 chargers have been installed), but non-Tesla vehicles with a Tesla plug will not be able to do so. Effectively CCS vehicles would be able to fast charge anywhere without an adaptor.

    This is a pilot so who knows what the final situation will be. But it tends to reinforce my feeling that Tesla are gradually moving in the direction of CCS (given that they are also adding CCS protocol support into their vehicles). I think the launch of the Cybertruck will be the best indicator of their long term intentions.

    • Philip Sandiford

      Member
      August 18, 2022 at 4:34 am

      Thanks for the research.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      August 18, 2022 at 6:04 am

      This would imply that without CCS on Aptera we would not be able to use a Tesla Supercharger even with a Tesla plug (Without the Tesla firmware/software Tesla cars are equipped with). So will Aptera equip the vehicle with the needed Tesla tech to connect or will we get CCS in the Aptera? The vacant hole in the gamma is sized for a Tesla connection and not big enough for a CCS. The fact that it is vacant indicates this feature is probably not yet resolved.

      Agree that it appears that Tesla is migrating to CCS which makes sense since it is the standard in Europe (CCS2) and the US (CCS1) and will be needed to charge vehicles with a higher charging demand or capability.

      Maybe we will get Apteras that we can’t charge and will need to rely on full solar😜

      • Philip Sandiford

        Member
        August 18, 2022 at 8:10 am

        That’s how I interpret it also.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        August 18, 2022 at 8:52 am

        This is obviously written with the existing fleets of CCS1 vehicles in mind; vehicles with tesla plugs (since none exist yet) would unnecessarily muddy their message. No other vendors have use the tesla plug to date and adapters don’t exist yet. Tesla won’t want a flood of cheap CCS to tesla adapters touching their superchargers, will actively block them if possible and likely will come out with their own but expect it to be sold out for a long time. Aptera needs to coordinate a unique deal and have related changes in software for superchargers done by Tesla; one would hope discussions are done to the point they have an agreement in principle if not signed by now.

  • Michael Marsden

    Member
    August 18, 2022 at 9:32 am

    “one would hope discussions are done to the point they have an agreement in principle”

    On this point, the twitter exchange after the petition concerns me.

    Elon, replying to the petition: “Cool.” (Very half-hearted IMO, why not say something positive about his own connector design?)

    Chris: “Lets talk!”

    Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but I interpret this 3 word exchange as Chris trying to get Elon to intervene in order to get access to the superchargers. If that’s the case, it would imply that they were unsuccessful earlier.

    If the Cybertruck comes with CCS or MCS I think that would signify the end of the Tesla port. If it only comes with a Tesla port, and no other ports, then they are clearly committed to it, and my worries are irrelevant. My prediction is that it will come with two ports – one Tesla port and one CCS or MCS port, in order to make the transition easier. I think that the Cybertruck is one of the reasons they are adding CCS to the V4 superchargers.

    • Dennis Swaney

      Member
      August 18, 2022 at 10:25 am

      What is an “MCS port”? All I’ve ever heard of are J1772, CCS1, CCS2, CHAdeMO, and Tesla ports.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        August 18, 2022 at 11:32 am

        Megawatt Charging System – No idea how monstrous these plugs are and absolutely useless for something like the Aptera but it may be an EVENTUAL replacement of CCS as the defacto standard (in 20+ years). Definitely will be used for semis and commercial vehicles. The port is theoretically capable of up to 3,750 kw DCFC – almost 10x the largest CCS implementations; Aptera maxes out at 50 kw and most teslas are ~200-250 kw. Note: The 2nd link has a really useful chart with countries, standards, volatge/amps etc of all charging standards

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megawatt_Charging_System#Specific_implementations

        https://www.electrive.com/2019/07/11/charin-is-working-on-truck-charging-with-up-to-3-mw/

        • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Curtis Cibinel. Reason: Added 2nd link
        • Michael Marsden

          Member
          August 18, 2022 at 1:37 pm

          Yeah, MCS is basically CCS on steroids. Tesla joined the CCS consortium a few years ago and was involved in the design of MCS. The connector is really nice looking, and not as large as you might imagine given that it is 10x the power of CCS. Demo here: https://youtu.be/NlHuok6h50E?t=226

          They’ll use it on the Semi for sure, and probably also on some of the larger static batteries (megapacks etc).

          It’d probably be overkill for the Cybertruck, but maybe if the battery was large enough, and they wanted a super fast charging method, then it might just be viable. The MCS connector comes with V2G/V2L/V2H, so you could power a worksite from your cybertruck, for example.

          You wouldn’t use it on a normal sized vehicle, it’s really intended for the larger commercial vehicles.

          • Curtis Cibinel

            Member
            August 18, 2022 at 4:41 pm

            You wouldn’t use it for a consumer vehicles YET but as battery technologies and densities keep advancing it could make sense eventually. Lots of investments are being made in batteries and improvements have been impressive in recent years. We just need one of these reported miracle battery technologies that offers 10x+ faster charging and 5x more energy density to pan out in the next 20 years for it to be useful.

            If you have a SUV with a 300 kwh solid state or otherwise advanced battery in 2042 that can safely receive 3000 kw of power you can now charge that beast to full in 6 minutes vs 45+ with CCS or 90+ with a 410V tesla plug.

          • Jeffrey May

            Member
            August 18, 2022 at 10:18 pm

            Just FYI… that MCS connector is just a prototype from the supplier ABB. It’s not a final approved design. (Although it could end up being the final design.)

        • Dennis Swaney

          Member
          August 18, 2022 at 9:22 pm

          So MCS is (or will be) the EV equivalent of the 1.1875″ high flow diesel pump & nozzle. Thanks.

  • Jonah Jorgenson

    Member
    August 24, 2022 at 12:12 pm

    Here is a LONG video highlighting the difficulties of charging at CCS chargers of different vendors with a Tesla car (With Tesla plug) and the CCS adapter from Korea. Includes difficulties with the charger vendor apps, muscling the kluge of plugs and adapters, finding chargers that are not occupied and that work.

    I drive a Tesla and use only Tesla chargers with the tesla plug. Not looking forward to this experience with an Aptera with or without a Tesla plug if I need to use CCS chargers.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  John Trotter. Reason: correct forum designation
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.
  • Kevin Bradbury

    Member
    August 24, 2022 at 12:18 pm

    Removed

  • Bob Kirchner

    Member
    August 24, 2022 at 1:11 pm

    Where I live, I will NEED to use CCS chargers almost exclusively when travelling. I hope Aptera comes up with a better solution if they insist on using a Tesla plug.

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    August 24, 2022 at 4:10 pm

    Difficulties charging or getting charged?

    For Tesla Owners

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    August 24, 2022 at 5:49 pm

    The link was only in your other dupes of this post. Looks like this one survived the pruning. Please readd the link.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      August 26, 2022 at 11:02 am

      Sorry. I guess I cant post effectively from work.

      This is the video URL. For some reason it starts 1/3 of the way through. To watch you need to move back to the beginning. It is an EV Dave video of about 34 min. titled “CCS Adaptor Testing on a Tesla Model Y”

  • Matthew Starkie Kreuder

    Member
    August 25, 2022 at 6:00 am

    I fear use of superchargers will require a subscription fee or very high costs/kwh. Perhaps Tesla owners may receive complimentary access.

    While not as “elegant” CCS has been perfectly functional for my Bolt EV – and I’ve done over 15 500 mile stretches.

    I do have concerns about needing to use an adapter (and how reliably that would work) in order to avoid reliance on Tesla dcfc.

  • Harrison Leininger

    Member
    August 25, 2022 at 10:25 am

    With all due respect, why is using a little adapter such a big deal to y’all? With the Tesla charging port, we are getting access to the largest charging network in the US. We also get access to every other charging network. With Tesla, we will have more charging options than any other EV on the market. We will already be doing most or all of our charging at home unless we are on a road trip. In that case, use the adapter. They have worked reliably for years now and I don’t see why that would change. If Tesla starts using an expensive charging subscription for their superchargers like Matthew said, (which I highly doubt they will) then just don’t use them if you don’t want to. We have all the options.

    • Jeffrey May

      Member
      August 25, 2022 at 10:33 am

      “With the Tesla charging port, we are getting access to the largest charging network in the US.”

      Except we don’t know that, do we?

      Tesla has talked about installing new chargers with Tesla plugs and CCS plugs, and non-Teslas would be able to use the CCS plug. But I don’t think there’s been any suggestion that Tesla would open up all of their existing Superchargers to third-party vehicles that happen to use Tesla ports. (Absent a specific agreement w/ Aptera, that is.) And even if they did, the existing Supercharger cables wouldn’t be long enough to reach the charge port in the center-rear of the Aptera.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        August 25, 2022 at 11:11 am

        I had a friend test that out and it actually does reach with V2 and V3 superchargers without parking at an angle. The cord definitely doesn’t droop as low as a tesla but it seems to reach. To make it easier they could do little things like angle the charge port behind the license plate 30 degrees left but unless you park a foot from the curb it should reach. Some superchargers have slightly different physical layouts (charger beside vs behind the stall) so it could still be an issue for some; tough to know for sure. Any current tesla owners care to play around with it and comment?

        • Edward Odenkirchen

          Member
          August 25, 2022 at 11:50 am

          How did they yest this? Estimated the position of charge port on car and then went to charge station to see how long the cable reaches?

          • Curtis Cibinel

            Member
            August 25, 2022 at 11:56 am

            Simply parked a model 3 with 1 foot to the left edge (to account for Aptera width) of the stall then checked if the plug could reach the license plate with the plug straight on.

        • Jeffrey May

          Member
          September 22, 2022 at 4:05 pm

          Much to my surprise, I just tested this at nearby V2 and V3 Superchargers, and your friend was right. There was, in fact, just enough cable length to reach the very center of the parking spot (where the Aptera charge port would be) when backing into a stall. In the V3 Supercharger that I tried, there was very little slack left and that would result in considerable strain on the plug. The V2 Supercharger seemed to have a few more inches cable length and wouldn’t be particularly strained. (Not sure if that’s consistent across Superchargers or just a fluke difference between the two I tried.) Parking at a slight angle could help it reach a lot easier in both cases.

          In contrast, the Supercharger stalls that are sometimes present on the ends of rows of Supercharger stalls and are designed to be pulled into head first rather than backing into do NOT have enough cable length to reach an Aptera charge port in the middle rear of the vehicle.

          With all that said, I’m still skeptical that Tesla will allow Apteras to use their existing Supercharger stations. But at least now I know that it would be physically possible, at least for the majority of stalls.

      • Francis Giroux

        Member
        August 25, 2022 at 11:23 am

        I agree with Jeffrey May. And even with the CCS adapter, the charge port will be smaller than the CCS cable itself. Personally I don’t want to pay for CCS charging rates unless I’m on a long trip. But I likely will not use Tesla superchargers that charge by the minute when Aptera will only accept something like 33 kw. I could charge almost half as fast by using a 50 amp level two charger on the J1772 adapter. Just because Aptera may end up having a Tesla charge port, that doesn’t mean we have to use Tesla chargers, but having the option may be handy some day. I’ll want to charge by the kwh not by the minute if it costs more.

        • Larry Mason

          Member
          August 26, 2022 at 9:55 am

          I think Tesla superchargers charge by the kWh except where per minute pricing is required by local regulations. If that’s the case, all EV chargers in the area would be subject to the same rules.

  • Russell Fauver

    Member
    August 25, 2022 at 10:51 am

    I believe this is the video link that Jonah Jorgenson posted. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rO9FViIacZ8https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rO9FViIacZ8

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      August 26, 2022 at 10:56 am

      Russell,

      This is the video (EV Dave, 34 min) for some reason you need to move it back to the start. It seems to pick up about a 1/3 of the way through

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    August 26, 2022 at 10:56 am

    They aren’t going to use the Tesla plug without an agreement with Tesla to allow Aptera’s to use the Supercharger Network, they aren’t idiots. If Tesla says no they’ll hold their noses and use CCS1. The Tesla to CCS1 adapter isn’t even sold in the US, the only ones that are here are grey market imports from Korea. Using an adapter is even worse than having to use CCS1 in the first place, it would be a kludge on top of a kludge. Finally the adapter requires circuitry to support it, something they will have to get from Tesla, with no agreement with Tesla they won’t have access to that either. Not all Tesla’s can use the adapter, mine can’t because it was built in 2019 before the necessary circuitry was added in 2020.

  • Bob Kirchner

    Member
    September 21, 2022 at 1:55 pm

    If Aptera ends up with a Tesla plug, this will be essential for those of us in regions with poor Supercharger coverage.

    https://electrek.co/2022/09/21/tesla-ccs-adapter-access-public-chargers/

  • George Hughes

    Member
    September 21, 2022 at 2:24 pm

    The really cool thing about Aptera is the speed of level 2 charging – there is a J1772 to tesla adapter that is much less expensive. I just hope Aptera will use at least a 6.6kw AC charger although, if they specified the 19.2 kw 80 amp level 2 service would add close to 200 miles to an Aptera in an hour off compatible EVSEs like this one.

    The idea is that you could really proliferate the 220v charging infrastructure at a fraction of the price of CCS DC fast charging systems that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to build and configure into the grid.

    The only reason for these massive 350kw DC fast chargers is so you can continue to market heavy, inefficient EVs that get 1.5 miles/kw.

    The point is that with lighter, stronger, more efficient vehicles, the demands of transportation could largely solved by the proliferation of 19.2 kw capable EVSEs. These units probably cost, including wiring from existing commercial service about 1/20th the cost per charging station. If you can get 200 miles of range in an hour of charging like Aptera, that makes a lot more sense.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      September 22, 2022 at 7:28 pm

      Model 3 sr+ charges at 11 kw max (level 2). Faster level 2 is not very useful in practise as it needs an upgrade of electrical service if you are going to allocate that much of the capacity. Level 2 also uses onboard inverters so faster speeds add weight and need for heat dissipation. 6.6 kw would be nice but anything more is probably unrealistic for Aptera. For me level 1 is more than enough for home charging.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    September 21, 2022 at 10:09 pm

    Tesla has begun selling its CCS adapter in the US – but only to those Tesla owners who have vehicles that can accept it. It seems that Teslas built before 2020 will need some sort of electronic retrofit for the adapter to function properly. https://electrek.co/2022/09/21/tesla-ccs-adapter-access-public-chargers/

  • Mark Brandon

    Member
    September 24, 2022 at 12:52 pm

    Biggest thing for me is moving from J1772 to Tesla plug – At least around here, there are a *LOT* more J1772/CCS1 chargers then Tesla – and they are the only ones free at malls / gov. buildings. A CCS to tesla adaptor and agreement with Tesla as they open their network seems to make a lot more sense to me then the other way round – and that presumes they *CAN* get access to the Tesla network.. what if they don’t, or it’s ridicules expensive? Have to use *always* use an adapter to public charge?

    Not to mention it’s what is already in my garage for my i3…

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 19 hours ago by  Mark Brandon.
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