- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 6:28 am
The ‘ULTIMATE CONFIGURATION’ to get your Aptera sooner than others and my thoughts about Aptera producing one configuration initially to streamline production, costs and build the brand.
The 400 mile battery is the sweet spot. It has more range than other EV offerings, is on par with the majority of ICE offerings for those who are still not sold on the viability of EVs. The 40 kw battery pack, it’s economically prudent. It will allow them to produce more vehicles. The 200 Mile range is going to be niche. I honestly can’t see the average American buying this option. The 600 and 1000 Mile variant is truly for those who can’t wrap their head around EVs yet.
Fully optioned, meaning All Wheel Drive, Full Solar Package, Safety Pilot, Enhanced Audio, Camping Kit, Pet Kit and Off Road Kit. Again, cost of goods are reduced by quantity ordered and if you acquire more you pay less. Thus if you configure you Aptera to have it all instead of ‘picking and choosing’ options, you likely will be ahead on the production timeline. Also, a fully optioned Aptera is nothing more than advertising for the brand. They will get priority. I truly believe this.
Asking price for a fully optioned 400 Mile variant is $37k per the website. I don’t think it will be offered at that price. Likely, it will be around $45K due to inflation, supply chain, logistic and other factors. Is that too much? I don’t think so, with median vehicle prices creeping past $40k.
So, that is my take. From a pure business standpoint, the startup will maximize production by selling a vast majority of this configuration. Other configurations will only come after this.
Your comments are welcome of course!
- This discussion was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Wyatt Andrews.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 6:56 am
For instance…people ordering 600/1000, not sure that people ordering these models not having been able to wrap their heads around EV’s. Owned my i3 for 6+ years along with several zero motorcycles. I can’t wait to take 1of my 2 deliveries (one of which is 1k model. I almost feel like you are in sighting controversy just for the sake of it.
As far as inflation pressures on production, we have yet to here from Aptera and their vendors. You are opening the door for misinformation and a bit of panic. My faith is with Aptera and their management to balance what pressures they may or may not be experiencing. This vehicle was designed to be highly profitable from the onset. Using outside vendors with locked in costs is a great business plan for a start up. There may be a time where they may manufacture in-house to assure component availability and or quality. For right now….I would hold off on off the cuff speculations.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 5:46 pm
Yes John it is, but they can be highly efficient by starting with the median range model in large numbers. Filling boutique orders with varied options is not efficient.
My comment about 600/1000 mile range is the “range anxiety” crowd who do not understand EVs yet. It’s real for some. Not for you with experience.
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 5:09 am
And John, no controversy for the sake of it. Realism for the real.
I do expect that Aptera has made secured sourcing deals with their vendors. That doesn’t mean that the vendors will be able to get the materials to Aptera as cheaply as they have in the past. Freight costs alone have increased by nearly 10% per container, and that is if you can actually get the container in port and unloaded in a timely manner.
Batteries are pretty heavy too. Freight, the last time I checked, is based on the weight of the container.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 9:27 am
AWD and offroad reduce efficiency and work against the main mission of the vehicle. Not to say they are bad (I reserved them both) but you will never get the rated ranges with these options so they are hardly universally better.
The camping kit and pet kit are not really part of the vehicle at all and similarly are very specialized. I have concerns about the viability of the camping kit in harsh weather and practicality due to the need to clear the back of the car without loading everything into tents to actually sleep in it.
Safetypilot is hardly an option from my perspective because many of its features have been very standard for years in other vehicles. This is a cost of ensuring the vehicle is safe and has modern expected functionality.
While profit from these addons might theoretically be higher at scale it costs a lot to offer a product like a tent or low weight speakers in relatively small numbers.
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 5:22 am
Curtis, I may tend to agree that the AWD option will use more power. We haven’t gotten the numbers yet, but I assume (likely to make an ASS out of yoU and ME) Aptera’s MPGe is going to be based on the AWD model, with better efficiency numbers for the FWD version.
The offroad option, to my understanding, modifies the ride height of the suspension slightly and changes the front wheel fairings. I think the height is moot. The vehicle is designed to slice through the wind. The elevation that it does this doesn’t matter. I hardly think most will use the off-road option, unless they are cruising to a beach in NE Florida (like me), where you can still drive on it! That is why I want it…yes, my use case but many people live in rural areas as well where it makes sense.
You say safety pilot is hardly an option yet, you say it’s standard on most vehicles? So you don’t want standard options in your Aptera? I’m confused?
Vehicle options are always profitable for vehicle manufacturers. This is why certain trim levels are vastly more expensive than the base models. There’s huge profit in options, and I am positive that Aptera factored this. Comfort, entertainment, alternate functions, etc. are always a money maker in the vehicle game.
- ModeratorJune 21, 2022 at 10:17 am
It’s amazing the number of business economists you find on this forum.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 5:40 pm
Gabriel it doesnt take an economic genius to realize everything along the supply chain has increased in costs. When you source materials, as Aptera is doing, the cost of freight alone will show up in the product costs.
- ModeratorJune 21, 2022 at 11:10 am
I assume initial pricing had margin for uncertainty. As design/procurement/pre-sale gets closer to a final state, that uncertainty goes down. It would not surprise me if much, if not all, inflation is within that uncertainty assumption.
As for option pricing, uncertainty existed (and exists today) for both scope and cost. Certainly, those prices can stay the same.
The Elafe contract was apparently signed for a production rate of 30,000+ cars per year, far above initial assumptions. Such a production rate HAS to yield reduced costs-per-car compared to initially assumed production rates.
Bottom line: “Promised” prices seem good … good enough for both Aptera and customers.
ps: Gabriel is right. Birth as an economist is miraculous.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 1:43 pm
I think more wish than sound assumptions. Nobody saw the current state of the economy, the damage to supply chains, inflation at record rates. To much to be accounted for in the initial margins in a period before all of this started. There will be a price increase unless Aptera management robs banks or sell drugs for some extra income.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 4:47 pm
@Jonah Jorgenson During the recent webinar Chris and Steve spoke about how they expected to get 1000 reservations and would have been delighted to get 3000. If the pricing was based on those numbers of projected sales, can’t we assume that they were expecting to turn a profit? Yes, the cost of parts will have risen but won’t they also benefit from the economies of scale? The more parts they order, the lower the cost-per-part…
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 5:37 pm
Aalthough I agree Jonah, I dont think drugs are part of the plan.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 5:51 pm
John, faith is good when placed on high.
I hope you and the other comments here are correct. That Aptera had the foresight to see a pandemic, a supply chain nightmare and logistical log jams and priced all that in initially.
I wasnt born an economist, I just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. It was 50 dollars more than the last time I stayed there so I’m a super economist now! 😎
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 12:55 pm
Not everyone wants or needs what you think is the best configuration.
I could care less on battery size Fyi it’s a 250 mile pack not 200. I am more interested in acceleration than how far I can drive per charge. Mine will simply be a local commuter car. Have better options for long trips and or hauling stuff.
All those options , off road , camping, pets, etc etc, marketing BS. Who the hell is taking this off road. Thats like an off road option for a C8, WHY.
The first thing I am doing is removing those horrible wheel covers and buying or fabricating some Fenders like the Prowler has. Also replacing what I would assume are tires designed for mpg , with some sticky rubber for acceleration. Once again I don’t care about range, I want acceleration.
Everyones case is different, mine is for a really really quick car that looks like it’s from the Jetsons, thats it.
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 5:02 am
Robert, I do love the fact that you are planning on ripping it up with your EV and already have plans to customize it. You want an Aptera Hot Rod, and I applaud this.
Do you have a boy Elroy? Jane your wife?
- MemberJune 25, 2022 at 6:37 am
I also agree with the fender idea. I’ll put those pants back on for long trips.
What other ideas do you have for customization?
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 4:41 pm
@Richard Palmisano Not sure where you’re located, Richard, but many parts of the US still have little to no DC charging infrastructure. I frequently make trips for work that are entirely in-state on interstate highways that are over 250 miles each way and limited L2 charging at the destination. If I do drive out-of-state, the closest DCFC to my home is 297 miles away in the next state. With a 600 mile range Aptera, I’m guaranteed at least 420 miles of range no matter the weather, the temperature or the speed at which I drive.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 5:35 pm
I live in Florida. Not concerned with charging as I plan to charge at home. This will be my commuter for work (avg 75 miles a day) and local run around.
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 5:28 am
But…I understand your use case and yes, at first I too had the thought that I needed the 600 mile battery version. I have since changed my stance. Charging infrastructure is only going to increase. I also have a sneaky suspicion that Aptera is going to be the first EV allowed to use the largest charging network in the US. Now that is speculation!
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 8:57 am
Now that’s a speculation I’d like to see be right. Tesla has excellent industrial design sensibilities. Much better than a kluge with a configuration negotiated by a committee.
- MemberJune 21, 2022 at 6:03 pm
Thanks for all the positive comments. I am not trying to demean or cause panic. I’m a realist. The reality is that no one could foresee the economic impacts of the past couple years. To assume that pricing is set is very ignorant (meaning not understanding, not an insult). I honestly hope you are all correct.
As for my thoughts on the “best” configuration, I stand by it. Battery supply is crucial. Hopefully they explore LIFEPO4. With their efficiency they can make that work, like Tesla has.
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 5:24 am
Oh and the key component to the post, how to get your Aptera sooner…you just need to listen to the recent Aptera Call. Chris Anthony himself said that first run production will be the 42 kw battery. I made this post not knowing this information.
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 6:28 am
Richard…that was actually known by most, as it has been posted both in written and video form by Aptera for over a year.
Order delivery based on manufacturing. (Not location)
400,200,600 & 1000.
Not sure exactly when they will add awd, but it seems after they finish development of 1,000 mile variant.
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 7:59 am
John, not sure if I missed anything in this thread, but to clarify, Chris Anthony just said in the recent webinar, the first deliveries will be in SoCal, spreading out from there. (Likely northward and then eastward) The first 1,000 vehicles will be 400 mile variants. So definitely location based to start.
- This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by OZ (It's OZ, Just OZ).
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 9:05 am
That’s what I heard, also. I think 400 miles, fwd, SoCal is the sweet spot, up to a point.
- This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by Quiviran. Reason: Started sounding whiny. Don’t need that here
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 10:06 am
Anyone heard whether solar hatch will come out at first? On my configuration I have it off, as I think rearward visibility and plain daylight inside would be nice, but it’ll be back on if it helps me get it faster.
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 4:57 pm
My guess is the full solar option will be available day 1, but officially I’ve not heard anything regarding the rear solar hatch.
I sent a request asking for the earliest possible configuration. I made my reservation within the first 24 hours and live in socal so am hoping to get mine early next year.
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 8:21 pm
Honestly if they need to simplify I I’m good with no solar 🤣; It’s an afterthought for me. Bc has power at $0.12 cad (about $0.09 usd) and I park in the garage (concerned regarding security and wrap). Doublt many would agree but the point is everyone has unique priorities.
- MemberJune 22, 2022 at 10:15 pm
- MemberJune 23, 2022 at 7:46 am
I believe full solar will be available at launch. They have shown testing of the rear view mirror camera system, which will be a necessity with a fully obstructed rear window.
- This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by Richard Palmisano.
- MemberJune 23, 2022 at 8:14 am
I believe all Apterae will have a rear view camera and display, there will not be an interior physical mirror.
- MemberJune 23, 2022 at 6:41 pm
I’m going with the 60Kwh battery for a few reasons. First off, I reserve the right to change my mind once I officially hear the outcome of the MPGe numbers. Secondly, where I live, I’d be venturing through the NYC area periodically, and I would much prefer to pass through and not have to charge in those areas (congestion). Thirdly, I have a condo vacation home where I cannot charge, but also need to drive a lot of highway and distances so I’d much prefer to spend an extra $5k for the larger battery. Finally, I intend to use A/C and heat as much as I want (I ration it on my current car) and operate my battery 20-80% which is theoretically 360 miles. Can I get by on the 400 mile version? Of course! But I see the 600 mile version to be a true game changer for me.
- MemberJune 24, 2022 at 8:12 pm
I initially reserved the 1k mile option but have since changed to the 400 mile AWD w/ all solar and I live in SoCal so maybe I’ll get lucky 😀
- MemberJuly 6, 2022 at 10:45 pm
Still on the fence about range. I could be practical and opt for white exterior and 250 mile range with no other options. But I have family here in southern NM, in Corpus Christi TX, and in Long Beach CA. Deming is about equidistant from LGB and CRP. But the price of a 1k range … awful! I need the occasional long range in case of grid failures and other bad contingencies.
- This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Lane Costilow. Reason: To add an additional sentence
- MemberJuly 9, 2022 at 9:18 pm
I like the sound of the longer range, but I am going to try and optimize for my 32 mile round trip commute, and try to stick with the 250 miler. 😉 Leaves a little cash to go with AWD. 🙂
- MemberJuly 10, 2022 at 6:21 pm
My Ultimate Config has to have a 400mi pack (balance of lightweight, cost and practical range), AWD (better handling, grip and even tire wear across the 3 wheels; added torque is a bonus), Full Solar (to cover the vast hot rear glass here in SoCal; harness the full 40mi/day solar charging potential) and Off Road Kit (added clearance and heavy duty wheel pants for daily driving road hazards of SoCal, incl avoiding curb rashes/scrapes, steep approaches, tall concrete parking stops or speed bumps, potholes and any unforeseen road imperfections plus I like the rugged lifted mean look in Black Noir; negligible range loss will be a wash with Full Solar) and finally Level 2 Safety Pilot (added safety margin reasons; for a 0-60 3.5sec vehicle). For $35.5k, I think it’s a reasonable price for a well equipped, lightweight High Efficient Tech “Science Fiction” and futuristic daily driver EV.
- MemberJuly 11, 2022 at 6:36 am
@James Gatan, I’m totally with you on this “Ultimate Configuration”. I think you helped get me off the fence on Off Road Kit vs Standard. I am curious as to your selection of Noir – a black car hanging out in the sun in sunny Southern California. Also, do you think the black finish may age faster than white or grey? Just curious about your thoughts on this.
- MemberJuly 11, 2022 at 5:44 pm
Hey John! I prefer “monotone”.So the Noir matches well to the standard roof, hatch and front hood (glossy) black finish. Plus with the lifted ORK on Black Noir, the front broad shoulder wheel pants stance (more exposed tires; easier access for the tire valves as well), it looks slightly like a tame aerodynamic Batmobile Tumbler to that effect. Lifted esp from the front, looks aggressive, like it is about to “pounce”. Besides, to me the Aptera looks less “geeky” on black 😂. Well, my current ICE ride is metallic black (a little bias lol, but that’s just me). Black goes/coordinates well with anything (like in clothing). It always looks sharp, stealthy, elegant and “badass” looking. Aka the “Murdered Out” look. Btw, Sandy Munro (Live) opined in one YT video interview of Chris Anthony and Steve Fambro, that black is the color for the Aptera. He did say that it looks like a “Batmobile”, and I agree 😂.
With that said, Luna (silver) would be my alternative last choice. I wish Luna would be in a darker gray silver shade , in matte. Like gun metal.
- ModeratorJuly 12, 2022 at 9:51 am
“Ultimate Configuration”is an interesting conversation, but seems impossible for a vehicle that could last “for generations”. Jobs change. Houses change. Interests change. The charging infrastructure will certainly change. Two options, I suppose: 1) buy what fits now, and plan to change if situations change enough; 2) buy for flexibility. I THINK I am doing #2, but Plan B is #1. In any event, I’m not too worried if I get it less than perfect on my order.
- MemberJuly 12, 2022 at 3:19 pm
John Trotter, what do mean “buy for flexibility”? Can you give an example of what that would be for you?
- MemberJuly 13, 2022 at 2:38 pm
I could be wrong, but I think “buy for flexibility” meant to “future proof” your Aptera purchase..
As an example, since I optioned mine with AWD, even though I live in sunny Los Angeles currently..I foresee that the AWD will be very useful once I retire in snowy Michigan (LP/Traverse City area). Yes. Future proofing, for many years of use. Plus, due to the composite body, it will never ever rust (brutal in frigid MI).
- MemberOctober 5, 2022 at 10:35 am
a couple of things/questions:
1. I thought/heard all the models would have an opaque rear; hence the cameras and therefore no other visibility so regardless full solar cells or not – no rear site line. Need verification!
2. About exterior color – I live in Texas. A black car here is asking for it!!! It’s hot here. Really hot.
3. Wish there was more info on the quality of the interiors. I like a nice interior (MB E350 style).
4. Interesting point on the “outdoor” model being more rugged, a’la parking posts, barriers, potholes, etc….
5. Forever is a long time. How will these cars age; plastic and color-wise?
- MemberOctober 5, 2022 at 11:04 am
Henry, RE: 1 & 2
1:All Aptera will have a video rear view mirror, and a back up camera. The rear hatch solar (at this point) is mounted on the rear glass, making it opaque for looking out or in, looking at the Aptera (As I haven’t been in one yet.) It would appear that with the shape and size of the hatch glass, and with the large C pillars, visibility would be tight at best.
(Question for any one who attended Fully Charged or has seen the Gamma, in some of the videos of the interior, it appeared as if the upper rear view monitor seemed to act like a physical mirror at times as I could see what appeared to be the interior of the vehicle in it. Optical illusion, or helpful feature?)
2: Most of the upper portions of the Aptera are dark in color with the solar and/or rear hatch window to begin with, the remaining area does not look to make a significant difference. Also, the will run a ventilation fan when parked, to keep the interior temperature the same as the ambient outside temp.