The Ultimate ConfigurationPosted by richard-palmisano on June 21, 2022 at 6:28 am
The ‘ULTIMATE CONFIGURATION’ to get your Aptera sooner than others and my thoughts about Aptera producing one configuration initially to streamline production, costs and build the brand.
The 400 mile battery is the sweet spot. It has more range than other EV offerings, is on par with the majority of ICE offerings for those who are still not sold on the viability of EVs. The 40 kw battery pack, it’s economically prudent. It will allow them to produce more vehicles. The 200 Mile range is going to be niche. I honestly can’t see the average American buying this option. The 600 and 1000 Mile variant is truly for those who can’t wrap their head around EVs yet.
Fully optioned, meaning All Wheel Drive, Full Solar Package, Safety Pilot, Enhanced Audio, Camping Kit, Pet Kit and Off Road Kit. Again, cost of goods are reduced by quantity ordered and if you acquire more you pay less. Thus if you configure you Aptera to have it all instead of ‘picking and choosing’ options, you likely will be ahead on the production timeline. Also, a fully optioned Aptera is nothing more than advertising for the brand. They will get priority. I truly believe this.
Asking price for a fully optioned 400 Mile variant is $37k per the website. I don’t think it will be offered at that price. Likely, it will be around $45K due to inflation, supply chain, logistic and other factors. Is that too much? I don’t think so, with median vehicle prices creeping past $40k.
So, that is my take. From a pure business standpoint, the startup will maximize production by selling a vast majority of this configuration. Other configurations will only come after this.
Your comments are welcome of course!
- This discussion was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Wyatt Andrews.
MemberJune 21, 2022 at 6:56 am
For instance…people ordering 600/1000, not sure that people ordering these models not having been able to wrap their heads around EV’s. Owned my i3 for 6+ years along with several zero motorcycles. I can’t wait to take 1of my 2 deliveries (one of which is 1k model. I almost feel like you are in sighting controversy just for the sake of it.
As far as inflation pressures on production, we have yet to here from Aptera and their vendors. You are opening the door for misinformation and a bit of panic. My faith is with Aptera and their management to balance what pressures they may or may not be experiencing. This vehicle was designed to be highly profitable from the onset. Using outside vendors with locked in costs is a great business plan for a start up. There may be a time where they may manufacture in-house to assure component availability and or quality. For right now….I would hold off on off the cuff speculations.
MemberJune 21, 2022 at 9:27 am
AWD and offroad reduce efficiency and work against the main mission of the vehicle. Not to say they are bad (I reserved them both) but you will never get the rated ranges with these options so they are hardly universally better.
The camping kit and pet kit are not really part of the vehicle at all and similarly are very specialized. I have concerns about the viability of the camping kit in harsh weather and practicality due to the need to clear the back of the car without loading everything into tents to actually sleep in it.
Safetypilot is hardly an option from my perspective because many of its features have been very standard for years in other vehicles. This is a cost of ensuring the vehicle is safe and has modern expected functionality.
While profit from these addons might theoretically be higher at scale it costs a lot to offer a product like a tent or low weight speakers in relatively small numbers.
ModeratorJune 21, 2022 at 11:10 am
I assume initial pricing had margin for uncertainty. As design/procurement/pre-sale gets closer to a final state, that uncertainty goes down. It would not surprise me if much, if not all, inflation is within that uncertainty assumption.
As for option pricing, uncertainty existed (and exists today) for both scope and cost. Certainly, those prices can stay the same.
The Elafe contract was apparently signed for a production rate of 30,000+ cars per year, far above initial assumptions. Such a production rate HAS to yield reduced costs-per-car compared to initially assumed production rates.
Bottom line: “Promised” prices seem good … good enough for both Aptera and customers.
ps: Gabriel is right. Birth as an economist is miraculous.
MemberJune 21, 2022 at 1:43 pm
I think more wish than sound assumptions. Nobody saw the current state of the economy, the damage to supply chains, inflation at record rates. To much to be accounted for in the initial margins in a period before all of this started. There will be a price increase unless Aptera management robs banks or sell drugs for some extra income.
MemberJune 21, 2022 at 4:47 pm
@Jonah Jorgenson During the recent webinar Chris and Steve spoke about how they expected to get 1000 reservations and would have been delighted to get 3000. If the pricing was based on those numbers of projected sales, can’t we assume that they were expecting to turn a profit? Yes, the cost of parts will have risen but won’t they also benefit from the economies of scale? The more parts they order, the lower the cost-per-part…
MemberJanuary 25, 2023 at 3:57 pm
I was happy with the cheapest version plus full solar. I don’t really want a third motor, or a fancy sound system. The 400 mile range battery wasn’t in my picture either until I found out the 250 would not have enough battery to accelerate, though the only reason I need the acceleration is to demonstrate the Aptera to prospective customers. If I get the launch edition and some customer wants it for the price of a custom ordered version with the same add-ons, I might just sell it at a profit and order the 250 I wanted. Yeah, I’m impatient too. Maybe not for the same reasons. I think I may be able to sell enough of these so the $1000 “commission” can be a real income. I’d be happy to sell one a week. All the upgrades don’t increase the $1000 so why push them.
MemberJanuary 25, 2023 at 5:06 pm
if you plan to resell may I ask what is your business plan? How many have you pre-ordered? I thought about doing some speculative investing too. Thanks.
MemberJune 21, 2022 at 12:55 pm
Not everyone wants or needs what you think is the best configuration.
I could care less on battery size Fyi it’s a 250 mile pack not 200. I am more interested in acceleration than how far I can drive per charge. Mine will simply be a local commuter car. Have better options for long trips and or hauling stuff.
All those options , off road , camping, pets, etc etc, marketing BS. Who the hell is taking this off road. Thats like an off road option for a C8, WHY.
The first thing I am doing is removing those horrible wheel covers and buying or fabricating some Fenders like the Prowler has. Also replacing what I would assume are tires designed for mpg , with some sticky rubber for acceleration. Once again I don’t care about range, I want acceleration.
Everyones case is different, mine is for a really really quick car that looks like it’s from the Jetsons, thats it.
MemberJune 21, 2022 at 4:41 pm
@Richard Palmisano Not sure where you’re located, Richard, but many parts of the US still have little to no DC charging infrastructure. I frequently make trips for work that are entirely in-state on interstate highways that are over 250 miles each way and limited L2 charging at the destination. If I do drive out-of-state, the closest DCFC to my home is 297 miles away in the next state. With a 600 mile range Aptera, I’m guaranteed at least 420 miles of range no matter the weather, the temperature or the speed at which I drive.
MemberJune 21, 2022 at 5:35 pm
I live in Florida. Not concerned with charging as I plan to charge at home. This will be my commuter for work (avg 75 miles a day) and local run around.
MemberJune 21, 2022 at 6:03 pm
Thanks for all the positive comments. I am not trying to demean or cause panic. I’m a realist. The reality is that no one could foresee the economic impacts of the past couple years. To assume that pricing is set is very ignorant (meaning not understanding, not an insult). I honestly hope you are all correct.
As for my thoughts on the “best” configuration, I stand by it. Battery supply is crucial. Hopefully they explore LIFEPO4. With their efficiency they can make that work, like Tesla has.
MemberJanuary 25, 2023 at 4:01 pm
LFP would be great for the 250 mile range, Maybe even call it a 300 mile range (or whatever it puts out) and use the same size battery as the 400, just with LFP.
MemberJune 22, 2022 at 10:06 am
Anyone heard whether solar hatch will come out at first? On my configuration I have it off, as I think rearward visibility and plain daylight inside would be nice, but it’ll be back on if it helps me get it faster.
MemberJune 22, 2022 at 4:57 pm
My guess is the full solar option will be available day 1, but officially I’ve not heard anything regarding the rear solar hatch.
I sent a request asking for the earliest possible configuration. I made my reservation within the first 24 hours and live in socal so am hoping to get mine early next year.
MemberJune 23, 2022 at 6:41 pm
I’m going with the 60Kwh battery for a few reasons. First off, I reserve the right to change my mind once I officially hear the outcome of the MPGe numbers. Secondly, where I live, I’d be venturing through the NYC area periodically, and I would much prefer to pass through and not have to charge in those areas (congestion). Thirdly, I have a condo vacation home where I cannot charge, but also need to drive a lot of highway and distances so I’d much prefer to spend an extra $5k for the larger battery. Finally, I intend to use A/C and heat as much as I want (I ration it on my current car) and operate my battery 20-80% which is theoretically 360 miles. Can I get by on the 400 mile version? Of course! But I see the 600 mile version to be a true game changer for me.
MemberJune 24, 2022 at 8:12 pm
I initially reserved the 1k mile option but have since changed to the 400 mile AWD w/ all solar and I live in SoCal so maybe I’ll get lucky 😀
MemberJuly 6, 2022 at 10:45 pm
Still on the fence about range. I could be practical and opt for white exterior and 250 mile range with no other options. But I have family here in southern NM, in Corpus Christi TX, and in Long Beach CA. Deming is about equidistant from LGB and CRP. But the price of a 1k range … awful! I need the occasional long range in case of grid failures and other bad contingencies.
- This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Lane Costilow. Reason: To add an additional sentence
MemberJuly 9, 2022 at 9:18 pm
I like the sound of the longer range, but I am going to try and optimize for my 32 mile round trip commute, and try to stick with the 250 miler. 😉 Leaves a little cash to go with AWD. 🙂
MemberJuly 10, 2022 at 6:21 pm
My Ultimate Config has to have a 400mi pack (balance of lightweight, cost and practical range), AWD (better handling, grip and even tire wear across the 3 wheels; added torque is a bonus), Full Solar (to cover the vast hot rear glass here in SoCal; harness the full 40mi/day solar charging potential) and Off Road Kit (added clearance and heavy duty wheel pants for daily driving road hazards of SoCal, incl avoiding curb rashes/scrapes, steep approaches, tall concrete parking stops or speed bumps, potholes and any unforeseen road imperfections plus I like the rugged lifted mean look in Black Noir; negligible range loss will be a wash with Full Solar) and finally Level 2 Safety Pilot (added safety margin reasons; for a 0-60 3.5sec vehicle). For $35.5k, I think it’s a reasonable price for a well equipped, lightweight High Efficient Tech “Science Fiction” and futuristic daily driver EV.
MemberJuly 11, 2022 at 6:36 am
@James Gatan, I’m totally with you on this “Ultimate Configuration”. I think you helped get me off the fence on Off Road Kit vs Standard. I am curious as to your selection of Noir – a black car hanging out in the sun in sunny Southern California. Also, do you think the black finish may age faster than white or grey? Just curious about your thoughts on this.
MemberJuly 11, 2022 at 2:24 pm
Hey John! I prefer “monotone paint jobs”. So the Noir matches well to the standard roof, hatch and front hood (glossy) black finish. Plus with the lifted ORK on Black Noir, the front broad shoulder wheel pants/track stance (more exposed tires; easier access for the tire valves as well), it looks slightly to the effect, like a tame aerodynamic Batmobile Tumbler. Lifted also looks aggressive, like it is about to “pounce”. Besides, the Aptera looks less “geeky” on black 😂. Well, my current ICE ride is metallic black (a little bias lol, but that’s just me). Black goes/coordinates well with anything (esp in clothing). It always looks sharp, elegant and “means business”. Btw, Sandy Munro (Live) opined in one YT video interview of Chris Anthony and Steve Fambro, that black is <i style=”font-weight: bold;”>the color for the Aptera. He did say that it looks like a “Batmobile”, and I agree 😂.
With that said, Luna (silver) would be my alternative last choice.
ModeratorJuly 12, 2022 at 9:51 am
“Ultimate Configuration”is an interesting conversation, but seems impossible for a vehicle that could last “for generations”. Jobs change. Houses change. Interests change. The charging infrastructure will certainly change. Two options, I suppose: 1) buy what fits now, and plan to change if situations change enough; 2) buy for flexibility. I THINK I am doing #2, but Plan B is #1. In any event, I’m not too worried if I get it less than perfect on my order.
MemberOctober 5, 2022 at 10:35 am
a couple of things/questions:
1. I thought/heard all the models would have an opaque rear; hence the cameras and therefore no other visibility so regardless full solar cells or not – no rear site line. Need verification!
2. About exterior color – I live in Texas. A black car here is asking for it!!! It’s hot here. Really hot.
3. Wish there was more info on the quality of the interiors. I like a nice interior (MB E350 style).
4. Interesting point on the “outdoor” model being more rugged, a’la parking posts, barriers, potholes, etc….
5. Forever is a long time. How will these cars age; plastic and color-wise?
MemberOctober 5, 2022 at 11:04 am
Henry, RE: 1 & 2
1:All Aptera will have a video rear view mirror, and a back up camera. The rear hatch solar (at this point) is mounted on the rear glass, making it opaque for looking out or in, looking at the Aptera (As I haven’t been in one yet.) It would appear that with the shape and size of the hatch glass, and with the large C pillars, visibility would be tight at best.
(Question for any one who attended Fully Charged or has seen the Gamma, in some of the videos of the interior, it appeared as if the upper rear view monitor seemed to act like a physical mirror at times as I could see what appeared to be the interior of the vehicle in it. Optical illusion, or helpful feature?)
2: Most of the upper portions of the Aptera are dark in color with the solar and/or rear hatch window to begin with, the remaining area does not look to make a significant difference. Also, the will run a ventilation fan when parked, to keep the interior temperature the same as the ambient outside temp.
MemberJanuary 21, 2023 at 12:17 pm
Now that we know what the launch edition will be targeting (only commuters it seems) what do you think would be the minimum configuration to go through with your order?
Required for me:
1) V2L @ 120Vx20A = 2400W (I guess the promised 1500W would be fine too), no more backup generator for the house or when camping.
2) DC fast charging, this will primarily my commuter, but I love to road trip with the wife. I otherwise have a launch edition spec’d out.
3) Heat pump, I live in a climate where it is cold and hot pretty equally; the whole point is efficiency and not to charge…so why get inefficient tech.
“would be nice“
1) An airbag disable option so my kids under 8 can ride up front.
2) The SOL color option (my ideal color configuration).
All that said, I changed to launch edition just to give potential investors a bigger number of “launch edition” configuration reservation holders.
MemberJanuary 21, 2023 at 1:24 pm
2) “No look” controls for primary functions. Minimally:
– Lights, wipers, and indicators
– Cruise control or ADAS on/off and speed adjust
– Basic media controls (volume up/down, next/last track and/or next/last radio preset)
I should not have to take my eyes off of the road while driving to interface with a touchscreen to perform any of those tasks.
3) Reliable navigation. Look at the issues Rivian is working through for an example of what not to do if you’re going to insist on not having Apple/Android integration.
4) Rock solid Level 2 ADAS.
Nice to have:
1) Side-curtain airbags. Pretty near a standard offering nowadays.
2) I’m a bit underwhelmed with the “Premium” audio upgrade basically being a couple tweeters and a small subwoofer, meaning that the basic audio system is a single pair of left/right speakers. Either add some mid-range speakers in the rear or that Premium package better be tuned to knock my socks off. Fronts should be 6.5″ at a minimum.
3) Proper adjustable seats. Can’t imagine that the weight penalty adding multi-way power seats is that severe.
4) Proper heated seats. This one’s pretty close to being on my mandatory list.
5) Android/Apple integration. Also really, really close to being mandatory. Barring that, the built in navigation better be completely dialed in.
MemberJanuary 24, 2023 at 5:04 am
This post aged perfectly, almost like fine wine!!! LOL
MemberJanuary 24, 2023 at 7:09 am
Please understand that your use-cases are not the only use-cases and differing opinions are not merely the result of fear and ignorance. For some of us, the choice of battery size is not only about driving distance. Some of us live in climates with less sun or less reliable sun and want to stretch the time between charges. Some of us don’t own homes and can’t charge conveniently over night. For whatever reason, people have decided that the 60kwh and 100 kwh make sense for them. It is not because they can’t wrap their heads around EVs. It is because they have different use-cases.
MemberJanuary 24, 2023 at 7:42 am
Ah, Bryan, to WHOM in the previous posts are you replying? With the poor forum software it is hard to tell.
MemberJanuary 24, 2023 at 8:43 am
I was replying to the thread originator’s comment, “The 600 and 1000 Mile variant is truly for those who can’t wrap their head around EVs yet.”
MemberJanuary 24, 2023 at 9:15 am
Brian Hendricks, absolutely correct. Use case including limitations & convenience that shorter distance battery configurations would not work for a certain segment of the population should not be criticized. Those who are critical are showing their ignorance, they have not formulated other use case scenarios. No different from those who started an uproar for fast charging. I do not criticize them, I try and listen with an open mind. Let’s not be dismissive either, we should all be listening to each other and occasionally educate with some tact.
MemberJanuary 24, 2023 at 11:20 am
John being critical isn’t ignorant. It means you analyze the merits or faults of something. I made an opinion and literally asked for comment and welcomed them. The uproar over DCFC was totally justified as well. That was a mess.
- This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by Richard Palmisano.
MemberJanuary 24, 2023 at 11:31 am
MemberJanuary 24, 2023 at 11:40 am
Richard, was not directing towards you directly or indirectly. From when this sight started, I have had several telling me its a mistake to order a 1k model as opposed to the 600. They were telling me the virtues of what for them should work for me. As it is of the three that I am hoping to receive, I switched 2 to LE and keeping my 1k. I would never force an opinion on anyone…after all it’s just an opinion.
MemberJanuary 24, 2023 at 2:56 pm
Being critical of someone’s decision is. Not knowing their needs and making a criticism is. That’s where the ignorance plays. As you can read in my original post to Brian H, it’s the critique of someone’s decision that makes for ignorance….you truly don’t know their actual situation or needs.
MemberJanuary 25, 2023 at 7:11 am
John, I stated my opinion on the best configuration for initial the launch vehicle based on the average consumer and what someone might need to consider to be able to get one of the initial launch vehicles. I did add other caveats, as to who might be interested in the other battery options, as well as those who might take those options, and why.
The old saying applies, opinions are like a certain body canal orifice, everyone has one.
If your use case requires something different than what Aptera deems to be the launch configuration, then you certainly can wait for that. As to others opinions on your preferences….F’em.
- This reply was modified 8 months, 1 week ago by Richard Palmisano.
MemberJanuary 24, 2023 at 11:17 am
Bryan, the vast majority of ICE owners right now only know this about EVs: That they have a battery, the battery drains, they can charge it like their cell phone and they can’t go to their gas station to fill up in 10 minutes. Your response is coming from a point of understanding, I’m sure you could make any variant work for you. ICE owners without any understanding buying an Aptera would likely opt for the biggest ‘gas tank’. That’s my point.
As for ‘my’ preferences and use case, it’s pretty much in line with current ICE and top EV makers across the world. Aproximately 300-400 miles of range is the sweet spot for the vast majority use case. That is why Aptera has rolled this model out first…as predicted. 😀
MemberJanuary 24, 2023 at 11:33 am
MemberJanuary 25, 2023 at 1:01 pm
Richard, I apologize for challenging you directly. I regret the way I responded. I respect you and your response. There is a mischievous aspect to my personality that prompted me to let my comment stand – just to see how you would respond.
I suspect the way ICE owners focus on range and range anxiety is fed by the fact that we primarily describe the various battery options according to an estimated number of miles. We shouldn’t be too surprised that they think in terms of miles when we describe the problems solved by the Aptera in terms of miles.
MemberJanuary 27, 2023 at 4:04 am
Bryan, no need for an apology. You stated a strong opinion and I applaud that. If you believe something to be true, you state your case. If someone else has a contrary opinion, they state their case.
We are all here trying to ‘guess’ what Aptera will actually produce in the coming year or so. We all have individual wants and needs. It is difficult to have a ‘one size fits all’ solution and you have to find the largest addressable market for your products. I like to think I’m a pretty average consumer so, my ‘guess’ is based on that, the market, what other companies are putting forth and how well they sell. The 40kw variant ticks most of the boxes for the most broad market, where the savvy EV buyer sees the value and features and the not so savvy ICE buyer sees the potential.
- This reply was modified 8 months ago by Richard Palmisano.