Tilting around corners?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Tilting around corners?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Tilting around corners?

  • Tilting around corners?

  • DIRK WRIGHT

    Member
    August 15, 2022 at 9:53 am

    Did the designers consider the feature of having the car tilt around corners? It’s a fairly common feature on trike vehicles.

    I’m not interested in debating the advantages/disadvantages of tilting. I’m just curious as to whether or not the designers considered the idea. Thanks.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    August 15, 2022 at 10:09 am

    Tilting around corners is not a feature of Aptera

    • DIRK WRIGHT

      Member
      August 15, 2022 at 10:45 am

      So, you do not know whether or not the engineers at Aptera considered the idea? Is that what you’re saying?

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    August 15, 2022 at 10:30 am

    This is a feature for more motorcycle like narrow trikes like the AKO trike, carver EV etc which achieve this based on driver (rider) leaning. Aptera is literally over twice the width of a carver EV and has a far different design focus; it would not be practical to initiate leaning like a motorcycle. Having the exotic/complex suspension to do this would likely hinder other suspension goals and be far more expensive than is justified. Aptera has set a super aggressive price target and needs to use commodity components and industry expertise as much as possible; ideals like a custom leaning suspension, multi-chemistry hybrid battery or retracting wheel pods is just not realistic.

    • DIRK WRIGHT

      Member
      August 15, 2022 at 10:44 am

      So, you’re one of the engineers at Aptera? I asked whether or not they considered it, not whether or not it was a good idea. If you don’t know, then just say that. Thanks.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        August 15, 2022 at 11:01 am

        No need to be abrasive in your post. Curtis is Aptera technology astute, an ambassador, and was simply trying to enlighten you. You are new here I suspect. it makes no difference if Aptera engineering considered it or not. The engineers selected the appropriate suspension architecture considering efficiency, cost and weight for a three wheeled vehicle

        Roush helped design the suspension. The suspension was tested with a beta prototype and did exceptionally well on the moose test. The current suspension has been tuned as a result of that testing.

        • DIRK WRIGHT

          Member
          August 15, 2022 at 1:51 pm

          Sorry if you think I’m being abrasive, but I am not. I am an engineer in the automotive field. I merely asked a simple question and if you don’t know then I suggest your input is not relevant, correct?

          • Jared Cormier

            Member
            August 15, 2022 at 2:32 pm

            “engineer in the automotive field” huh? You’re awfully concerned about a specific area of research that Aptera may or may not have entertained, why is that, I wonder?

            • DIRK WRIGHT

              Member
              August 17, 2022 at 5:48 am

              I am merely curious as to whether or not Aptera considered the idea. That is all.

            • Bart Cunningham

              Member
              August 22, 2022 at 5:36 am

              Dirk…You are a Patent Examiner at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. That qualifies you how?

          • John Malcom

            Member
            August 22, 2022 at 11:04 am

            Dirk, a patent examiner????? Shame on the deception. Torpedoes your engineering credibility. But we can use your experience when talking about Aptera patents.

  • Philip Sandiford

    Member
    August 15, 2022 at 11:17 am

    Tilting is always done on a horse, and then usually ran on a straight course. 😂

  • Jared Cormier

    Member
    August 15, 2022 at 11:41 am

    Not an engineer at Aptera, but I can say they probably didn’t contemplate this for the same reason they didn’t contemplate saddlebags or wings on it. It makes no sense. There are absolutely zero advantages to doing this on a vehicle as wide as the Aptera is (even the 2e was too wide to make that necessary). The reason the other vehicles lean is because they are taller than they are wide and the leaning serves multiple purposes in this scenario. The Aptera design has the cg so low that the body rotation would shift the battery weight outwards and conversely would shift the cg outwards. This is the exact opposite of the purpose for doing this in other vehicles. Additionally, the gravitational and gyroscopic torque you get from this would be negated by having a smaller contact patch with motorcycle tires as opposed to automotive. Furthermore, this would add significant complexity to the steering and suspension assembly. In short, you’d be paying much more for worse performance…

    • DIRK WRIGHT

      Member
      August 15, 2022 at 1:50 pm

      I wasn’t asking for anyone’s opinion on the value of tilting for this vehicle. I merely asked if anyone knew whether or not the engineers at Aptera considered the idea. All you are doing is speculating and I’m not interested in that.

      • Riley …

        Member
        August 15, 2022 at 3:48 pm

        Let me give you my opinion, I speculate that nobody on this forum will have an answer to your question.

        I’ve consumed every piece of available information regarding aptera and haven’t once heard mention of It.

        • DIRK WRIGHT

          Member
          August 17, 2022 at 5:49 am

          OK, thanks. Finally, a relevant response.

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    August 15, 2022 at 12:38 pm

    Dirk Wright, since you just recently joined the Aptera Forums, I suggest you do a little research in the forum posts before treating people poorly for trying to help you.

    • DIRK WRIGHT

      Member
      August 15, 2022 at 1:47 pm

      I did a search and found nothing. Instead of trying to tell me what to do, perhaps you could answer my simple question? Thanks.

      • Vernon Michael Gardner

        Member
        August 15, 2022 at 10:47 pm

        No, they did not, that type of suspension would of increased weight and the parts. The whole idea is efficiency.

        • DIRK WRIGHT

          Member
          August 17, 2022 at 5:50 am

          So, ever since Aptera was founded in 2006, they never once considered the idea, is that what you’re saying?

      • Bart Cunningham

        Member
        August 16, 2022 at 2:10 am

        I believe the engineers at Aptera are more intelligent and would not waste their time on this idea as it is not relevant to their vehicle design. I DO know this! I also think a few things about you that would not be suitable to post here so if you don’t have anything intelligent to add to the conversion then don’t.

  • John Voules

    Member
    August 15, 2022 at 1:43 pm

    Dirk, maybe a question that you would need to ask APTERA directly. This sight is loaded with engineers and automotive experts. Please do not make coercive remarks to professionals that are trying to help you get an answer.

    I personally have learned more by listening when it comes to technical aspects and am great full to have knowledgeable people at my disposal when I have questions.

    • DIRK WRIGHT

      Member
      August 15, 2022 at 1:48 pm

      I am an engineer. I work in the automotive field. I did a search and found nothing. It’s a simple question. If you don’t know, then please just say so.

      • John Voules

        Member
        August 15, 2022 at 1:50 pm

        Sounds like you possibly answered your own question….

        No

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        August 15, 2022 at 2:06 pm

        You seem to be a little black and white to be an engineer. Resources that tend to be willing to listen to and consider other professionals when they have more experience in an area, in this case Aptera. The sky will not fall if you don’t know if Aptera considered a “Leaning solution” and the rest of us on the forum don’t care.

      • Philip Sandiford

        Member
        August 15, 2022 at 2:19 pm

        Hi Dirk. Nobody here can answer “Yes” or “No” and one never knows what a response will be when something is posted here. Just ignore what you feel is a non sequitur response. Perhaps you use professional forums? Those are not these. We are just engaged, so please don’t be irritated with the answers.

        I’m not piling on, not trolling or baiting, and with due respect.

        – First and foremost: The only way to get a yes or no answer to your question, as asked, is to ask Aptera since you asked ‘if Aptera has considered.’ How would we know if they have considered such an esoteric concept since…

        – Most of us are just passing time until the next little news blip from Aptera. This is not a professional forum, nor a forum of professionals. We have professionals, like you, and they will give you an opinion but nobody knows what Aptera has considered except Aptera. The rest of us just seem to look for inspiration for our ‘stream of consciousness.’

        With respect.

        • DIRK WRIGHT

          Member
          August 17, 2022 at 5:52 am

          I assumed that Aptera employees monitored this forum so they would know the answer, but I guess I was mistaken.

          • Philip Sandiford

            Member
            August 17, 2022 at 6:54 am

            Oh, I wish that were the case.

            Perhaps they do have a body that monitors but I’ve only seen the rare input from them.

            • DIRK WRIGHT

              Member
              August 17, 2022 at 7:25 am

              OK thanks.

      • Vernon Michael Gardner

        Member
        August 15, 2022 at 10:50 pm

        Dirk, Not likely considering you had to ask that question.

  • Llewellyn Evans

    Member
    August 15, 2022 at 4:23 pm

    TROLL.

    Blacklist.

    • Paul Schultz

      Member
      August 15, 2022 at 4:36 pm

      yep….👍

  • Ray Holan

    Moderator
    August 17, 2022 at 6:04 am

    My read of this thread is that Dirk (original poster) was simply focused on a definitive answer to his original question. Clearly, none of us had a definitive answer. My view is he has been persistent without passing into the troll-zone. I suspect he wondered if Aptera had ever evaluated going in the direction of something like the Carver:

    https://www.carver.earth/en/

    I didn’t hear him advocating strongly for it, just wondering about it…

    • Philip Sandiford

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 6:52 am

      👍👍

    • DIRK WRIGHT

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 7:25 am

      Thanks.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      August 17, 2022 at 7:04 pm

      My read. Dirk asked a question. He received an answer from a forum member with an Aptera background which was sufficient with just a little thought to have answered his question. He responded aggressively with the same question and got another very relevant response which again with a little thought provided an answer to his question, but once again responded aggressively. Others on the forum interpreted his attitude as a troll. My sense as well. Posts since have been more in line with forum etiquette.

      • DIRK WRIGHT

        Member
        August 21, 2022 at 7:58 am

        You are confusing passion with anger. I’m not angry or aggressive. I’m passionate. They are not the same thing.

  • seth feldman

    Member
    August 20, 2022 at 6:02 pm

    I’m sure there were a lot of brainstorming sessions with junk ideas thrown around. Even if this was one of them, I’m sure it would quickly be recognized this was the width of a car(now width of a pickup truck) and not the width of a motorcycle that would actually benefit from leaning.

    HA HA you got another answer from someone who doesn’t know everything that was considered

  • Bart Cunningham

    Member
    August 21, 2022 at 8:56 am

    My Harley tilts around corners great. Please leave my 3 wheeled vehicle drive like it should without leaning. I see zero advantage to it leaning, the physics are NOT the same!

    • DIRK WRIGHT

      Member
      August 21, 2022 at 11:22 am

      Really? I guess you don’t understand physics or vehicle dynamics very well. I don’t know.

      Harley 3-Wheel Conversion TRiO Kits | Tilting Motor Works

      • John Malcom

        Member
        August 21, 2022 at 1:46 pm

        I think you are a disruptor and just want somebody to notice you. You make provocative statements with little or no substance and demean others.

        • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  John Malcom. Reason: Correct spelling
        • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  John Malcom.
      • Ray Holan

        Moderator
        August 21, 2022 at 2:37 pm

        Hi, Dirk. For the record, we have found that when comments have been directed to a particular person and include wording that can be interpreted as a personal affront (e.g. “you don’t understand physics…”), online arguments get started. IMHO, you have been on the receiving end of a few ziggers yourself.

        As we get closer to Aptera production, we all may be getting more ramped up than usual. So a gentle reminder to us all: try to have respectful discussion and dialogue when we differ.

        We are free to disagree here in the forum and we often do, but (as the community guidelines recommend) we do try to avoid being disagreeable. Please remember that written posts don’t have the benefit of a face-to-face conversation where each party can hear the tone of voice and see facial expressions that often clarify the intent of the statement. ‘Nuff said. Go Aptera!

        • Kevin Bradbury

          Member
          August 21, 2022 at 2:43 pm

          👍@Ray Holan, not just “Nuff said”, but well said.

      • Bart Cunningham

        Member
        August 21, 2022 at 4:57 pm

        A thin single passenger inline vehicle like described in your link is a very different animal than the Aptera and the physics would not really apply in the same manner. You are entitled to your own opinion but I really have no idea how you think it would work or even if somehow it could be made to have some sort of benefit, how it would be worth the added complexity involved.

  • David Marlow

    Member
    August 21, 2022 at 1:54 pm

    I can see why tilting a vehicle where the center of gravity (including passengers) is 1/2 or greater than the width may make sense, however in the Aptera that will be much less than 1/4 the width.

    • John Voules

      Member
      August 21, 2022 at 4:42 pm

      Not even sure if even possible with the wide stance…the whole purpose of the wide stance to begin with…..STABILITY!

    • George Hughes

      Member
      August 22, 2022 at 3:48 pm

      Dirk:

      Let me simplify the issue. If tilting is such a good idea, built it yourself and go to we-funder and launch your company.

      I’ve actually run across some similar designs that were people-powered – i.e. the leaning from left to right helps propel the vehicle. And I saw something out of archimoto on that scale … I think it was a design they absorbed from some other company that looked pretty cool.

      I suspect that if that is what greases your flipper, you might need to check them out.

      That said, I’m pretty sure that most of the folks here are not at all interested in this approach for the wide variety of reasons presented but indulge me while I add another: Side impact.

      With Aptera and its wide stance in front and single point of contact on the rear will likely rotate with a significant amount of the impact dissipated by the spinning off from the impact at between 40-60 degrees.

      Whatever ’tilting’ vehicle you envision strikes me as having a higher center of gravity and is dependent on the suspension for its ‘leaning’ capability. Now, imagine the vehicle oriented in a straight line and slam a Lincoln Navigator into it at a 90 degree angle at 35 mph. I see the front suspension easily tilting to the point the vehicle rolls from the impact and might be literally crushed by the SUV. This is my gut from viewing operations of other tilting three-wheelers typically engineered with light-weight tube-frames and motorcycle tires.

      Maybe your design solves this safety issue.

      We won’t know until you share what you think is so great about the tilting wheel design.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    August 22, 2022 at 7:02 pm

    Have you looked at the Arcimoto? Arcimoto bought a company that specialized in tilting three wheelers. Aptera is building a car, legally it’s classed as a motorcycle in many states but as a practical matter it’s a car. Cars are meant to be comfortable, tilting sounds sickening to me, certainly not appropriate for a car. Arcimoto is building a motorcycle. Their purpose is to build something that’s fun, they even put fun in the name of the vehicle, FUV or fun utility vehicle. The FUV is laid out like a motorcycle, one seat fore and one seat aft. It has a handlebar instead of a wheel, it’s open on the sides. And it tilts. If you want a tilting electric three wheeler that’s the vehicle to buy.

    • John Voules

      Member
      August 22, 2022 at 7:04 pm

      Kind of like a carnival ride?

    • OZ (It’s OZ, Just OZ)

      Member
      August 22, 2022 at 7:19 pm

      Joshua, FUVs don’t tilt yet. (But their upcoming three wheel/motor electric bike will.)

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