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Tire info and service (change, rotation, air, etc)
updated 1 week, 3 days ago
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Because of the low weight and efficiency of the Aptera, it should be very easy on tires. I’m wondering if there is a way to estimate the reduced tire pollution, as compared with a large I.C.E.-powered SUV? I would guess somewhere around 30-50%. If we are reducing the impact of transportation where the (synthetic) rubber meets the road, the Aptera Paradigm wins again!
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This discussion was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by
Gabriel Kemeny.
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This discussion was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Gabriel Kemeny.
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This discussion was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Gabriel Kemeny.
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This discussion was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Gabriel Kemeny.
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This discussion was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Gabriel Kemeny.
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This discussion was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by
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I went to the tire shop to have the tires rotated on my Ford F-150 (yeah I know it’s an ICE vehicle but is only used for loads my Prius or eBike can’t handle. It sits in my driveway most of the time). Anyways while waiting for the technician to start I told him I was purchasing the Aptera and explained it is a new 3 wheel solar electric car that is going into production in December 2021. So I asked him. How do you rotate tires on a 3 wheel vehicle? He was stumped. He even asked his co-worker how to rotate a 3 wheel vehicle. He responded with a puzzled look on his face…
That being said, does anyone know how to rotate tires on a 3 wheel vehicle???
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For 4-wheel cars with radial tires, the rotation technique is to swap the front and rear tires but to not switch which side they are on. Therefore, assuming that we have radial tires on the Aptera, then no tire rotation would ever be performed.
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Although this is not a validated reply I did have this conversation with an Aptera member who said….
Front wheels could be rotated but not the back necessarily.
We will hear when they get to that type of detail sharing
We do have Polaris Slingshot owners in the forum? Or you can speak directly to three wheel vehicle dealers of Polaris and Vanderhall, etc…
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The rear tire (driving wheel) of a Slingshot is significantly wider than the front tires and the front rims are 18″ while the rear is 20″.
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Do you know if front and rear wheels are the same? Are they the same in 2 wheel drive and 3 wheel drive versions?
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We were told, during a webinar, that all three tires would be the same. Later, one of the engineers suggested that the rear tire might be wider than the front tires.
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Seems to me that the question and answer session stated that all three wheels would be the same size for ease of operation for now.
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From “Car and Driver”: “Rotating your tires evens out the wear and makes them last longer. Proper rotation not only helps even out wear and extend the life of your tires, it provides the perfect opportunity to make certain all four wheels are in good working order.”
If all three tires on an Aptera are the same size then the answer would be “Clockwise or counter-clockwise.” If the rear tire is a different size then the front tires would just trade places with each other.
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Just a hunch for me, is only the front tires get rotated. As for the tire size, I recall hearing Nathan Armstrong saying all 3 are the same size.
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If they are all the same, there are only two possible combinations:
Clockwise and counterclockwise.
If just the front, you just swap the two. If they are directional, you’d need them demounted and turned around then remounted. Like a Dodge Viper where they are directional and the rears are bigger.
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Thanks for all the replies folks! Very educational and informative. In the end shouldn’t Aptera provide this info in the owner’s manual?
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The way I would do it would be to switch the right front tire with the rear, leaving the left front in place. On the next rotation I would switch the left front with the rear, leaving the right front in place. At this point the former right front tire will be on the left front, but will have had a low stress period rolling in the rear position to reduce the stresses on the plies normally associated with switching a radial ply tire from one side to another (although I sense that this is less of a big deal now than we were taught when radial ply tires were new).
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I have not rotated tires from left to right in years, having been told tire rotation should not be reversed. On my cars with “staggered” (unequal) front and back, there’s no way to rotate at all. Be careful with inflation, watch for signs of alignment-caused wear, and that’s good enough. For a BEV, tire load on the Aptera isn’t too bad, so wear should be reasonable.
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Taking into consideration the wheel covers and in wheel motors, how easy or what’s the process if you had to change a flat tire (is there even a spare?)
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Aptera hasn’t shown the finnished wheel cover design but they have stated that it will be very easy to remove the covers. The in wheel motors won’t have any affect on the process. There won’t be a spare tire but the wheel and tires will be a standard type that is stocked in most shops.
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This does raise the question of what kind of wheels?
The possibilities range from the funky steel wheels secured by three nuts like the Citroen 2CV (lightweight vehicle) to styles aluminum or other more exotic designs. Styling would be secondary as the wheels are enclosed fully in fenders for aerodynamics.
I’ve had one flat with a ‘spare-less’ car and ended up driving very slowly on the flat for about a mile to a tire shop. I did that after the spray stuff proved ineffective. Care was taken to allow the wheel ‘survived’ the ordeal but the flat tire was toast. As it was a standard rim size, I got a used replacement at the shop and ordered a new set of tires for the rear axle.
It would obviously have been a more expensive issue if the wheel had been damaged. Which of course, begs the question, what kind of wheels – plain, stamped steel from a Chevy or Ford, or some custom styled light-weight alloy? Which will be standard on the Aptera?
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I can’t locate the image but Aptera’s wheels are a lightweight, spoked design with (as I recall) a five-bolt connection. They showed them very early-on and you can see them in any of the videos in which Noir or Sol have the wheel pants and skirt removed.
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Here’s what the alphas have. The tire size is shared with a Fiat 500.
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Great find! Sarah just forwarded that same image to me – and said it’s still relevant so I’m guessing these are the wheels we’ll see on the beta prototypes, too.
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Actually, the 2021 Fiat 500e runs on 185/65 R15 tires – Aptera currently uses 195/45 R16 tires.
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Yep. Fiat 500 has several sizes, one of them is shared with Aptera.
Fiat 500 Abarth:
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One efficiency aspect that hasn’t been addressed is low rolling resistance tires. I drive a 2000 Honda Insight and bridgestone potenza low rolling resistance tires at 50psi are the cream of the crop for that car. Anything else on my car takes away from not only rolling resistance, but acceleration, and regen. That car is 165/65 R14. I believe the BMW I8 uses 155 wide tires for a 3,000 lbs car. Why use 195 width when Aptera is 2/3rds the weight even with only 3 wheels? Not only is that more rolling resistance, but its a bigger aerodynamic cross section, and everyone knows wheels/tires are aerodynamically messy. Also surprised that Aptera doesn’t have moondisks. It would help even with wheel fairings, especially the rear ones that seem to have a few inches of expose rim between tire wall and fairing.
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I believe they’re narrower than 195 now. But I don’t recall any mention of moon wheels.
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George, did you see the wheel image?
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<div>The attached video talks about Michelin’s airless tires may be available on Tesla vehicles in the near future. This tire would solve the problem of Aptera not having spare tires because you do not get flats. Unfortunately Aptera will start production before these tires are available. </div>
But would we be able to switch over to them when they do come out? From the pictures, it looks like the rim and tire may be joined together as a single piece. Are they? Can rims be kept and the tire portion be changed like traditional tires? Also they appear to require a special rim, and would that rim fit over the Elaphy in-wheel hub motor?
The drama continues!
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Most new cars are sold without spare tires these days – I don’t see this as a problem but, then, I’ve driven hundreds of thousands of miles over the past 20 years in four different cars and have never had a flat or a blow-out. A worst I’ve driven over metal debris that’s become embedded in the tread and created a slow leak that could be repaired. Tire sidewalls are much tougher nowadays than they used to be.
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last month. road debris sliced open a two year old tire,. I was fortunately 15km from a town perpendicular to the highway I was on. 45 minutes later I would have been in Banff national park in the middle of nowhere with no hope …
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Ken
I wish we had your tire luck!
Down here in southern AZ with many primitive roads …We have had more flats tires ( seven) in four years … more than we had in 47 yrs of paved roads in NJ????
Chris said he would not entertain airless tires at this time
And the fact that they are heavy, that was another reason not to look at them at this time.
Fuel economy and handling may be slightly affected by the use of airless tires, which are heavier than conventional tires. Michelin
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I checked the Michelin website which says they will start distributing airless tires in 2024. They’re going to be equipping a fleet of cars in Las Vegas for real-world testing. Also, they’ve already tested them with GM on the Bolt.
A quick check on Tire Rack reveals they offer tire and wheel packages for the Bolt. The wheels have a 5 bolt wheels range from 16 to 18 inches with a rim width from 7 to 7.5 in. Wheel offsets range from 38 to 40 mm.
A typical tire size for 18in rims is 215/55R16. A typical 18in rim tire size is 215/45R18
There was a good discussion on tire sizes on the old forum centering on aspect ratios and comfort but I don’t remember the details.
With the information above, someone may be able to contribute better information than I could.
Oh, one other thing, the Beta version information on tire sizes may change since Rousch has worked their magic on the suspension ……
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Check out Fanfare 100’s post on this forum for reasons (URL) why airless tires are not good for EV’s
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Came across this today. Full article https://newatlas.com/automotive/michelin-gm-uptis-airless-tire-demo/
Michelin has teamed up with GM
to design and start selling an airless tire for street use on passenger
cars. Called Uptis, this product is a full-wheel solution requiring
specialized rims. Michelin says it will withstand much greater impacts
than a regular tire and wheel, and will have a “dramatically” longer
lifespan, while adding no extra rolling resistance, not feeling any
different to the driver and adding only around seven percent to the
weight of the wheel – less than existing run-flat tires do.-
This marketing collateral is inconsistent with other reviews which say:
– increased weight
– increased rolling resistance
– heat build up
– certified for lower speed driving only
– subject to tear/damage of spoke material (not metal)
I trust the Aptera engineers will conduct analysis and select the best tire for production vehicles while following Advances in technology and integrating at the right time to preserve or enhance Aptera p performance and safety
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While the airless tire from Michelin is very interesting to me, there is one concern I have.
The tire is open from one side to the other. It is possible to look through them. This means mud (and other debris) can lodge in these opening, harden, and the wheel would be out of balance. It would be a lot work to get the mud out of those many small spaces, especially when dried.
Airless tire users would have to avoid mud while traditional tire users could go on their merry way. This would not be a big problem for me, since I live in the desert, but most of the country is not desert. (Yet even I sometimes encounter mud.)
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I’ve heard somewhere that all the prototype airless wheels are open sides for marketing purposes and any real world product will look identical to standard tires. I hope this is the case as I would be more concerned with having my very expensive new tires stolen because of their “curb” appeal.
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“Curb appeal”. I really like that one. After considerable testing they found very little issues with the open sides. They could add flaps that over lap, or full side walls. Full side walls would cause issues as standard tires would have, unless they were ventilated.
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Speaking of changing a tire. Will their be a jack kit in the vehicle? Including whatever tool(s) needed to remove the wheel covers?
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It’s too soon in the developmental process to have information about tool kits but, as Riley mentioned above, Aptera has said that the wheels will be easy to access. Traditionally, fender skirts on automobiles were held in place with latches or some other sort of locking mechanism that didn’t require a special tool to remove. I suspect we’ll see a removeable panel of some sort on Aptera.
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With no spare tire, which I am fine with, I will be keeping a tire plug kit and a small compressor behind one of the seats. If I get a puncture, I will be OK until I can get to a tire shop. If I damage the sidewall then I will need a flatbed tow-truck anyway. My insurance includes roadside assistance. I have had 2 flats from punctures and a blowout at high speed in the last 10 years, so I would not say a flat is rare. A spare was useful during the blowout, but I am willing to take the risk for the weight savings.
Update, I looked at the FAQ and saw that there will be a 110 AC outlet in the car. With that I would use a small 110 volt compressor rather than some anemic 12v unit.
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The majority of new cars sold in the US come with a small compressor and a can of tire gunk in lieu of a spare tire.
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I strongly recommend EP Auto tire inflator like I got on Amazon. It’s quiet, and can be programmed. It is 12v, but I’ve had 12v Truck rated pumps from Intermatic- now Campbell Housefield, and this little pump is just as good as those were. The only problem I’ve had is with the screw on tire stem connector. To replace it with a 1/4 locking stem, don’t cut the hose, smush the crimp as flat as possible one way, then open it up, and it will slide right off the rubber hose. It’s much smaller than 120v compressor, and has done the job on truck tires.
I’m very interested to see how the jacking procedure is going to work for the rear tire specifically. I’m not seeing where a shop would be able to use a lift on the Aptera, so we might be changing our tires in the parking lots. I would expect some sort of bottle jack since I can’t see how you could get a scissor jack to work without some engineering Kung fu.
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A little off subject but I understand that Aptera will have a 5″ clearance on the wheel skirts. A little concerned about speed bumps and large potholes. I cannot find any description of the clearance if the “Off road” package is selected. Does that option create additional drag to the vehicle?
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Remember – the front wheel pants move up and down with the wheels so the “clearance” is, simply, how much of the wheel/tire shows below them when the vehicle is at rest.
I believe they said that, yes, the off-road package would make the vehicle a little less aerodynamic.
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Yes but also the belly clearance – I believe they said 5″ clearance on the skirts and 7″ clearance on the belly – with offroad version it would be 2″ more on both possibly? I’m mostly worried about scraping the belly on the ground. Betas have a lot less belly clearance than alphas too.
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It’s just an “Aptera” by the Aptera Motor Company, Paradigms and Paradigm Plusses were a 330 vehicle limited edition.
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Perhaps this is a place for the airless tire. Just bond a new strip of rubber to the flexing foundation. No sidewalls or old carcus to discard. Much less rubber is use.
https://aptera.us/community/discussion/airless-tires-and-aptera/?no_frame=1#post-6966
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Michelin has been experimenting with that kind of tire design. Not commercially available yet. No idea about cost premium over traditional tire, nor reduced rolling resistance vs. traditional tire. Will be interesting to see if it hits the market in next 2-3 years and how it might work with an Aptera. I suspect we’ll be on traditional LRR tires for foreseeable future.
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+1 I want a tweel on my aptera
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Love the theory but its still early. Once the tech is solid and scaled to high enough production it is literally a bolt on change for Aptera (or when you replace your tires). Would be great to know what the standard LRR tires will be since this is always a balance of performance, longevity and cost. If they are good LRR tires this with a coefficient of road friction of 0.006 the hypermiling potential would be insane (potentially well over 2000 miles).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tuu7avKH2dS_JPk7aiP2av09a1f1WE0OvvNH6fdHpiQ/edit#gid=0
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