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Tire info and service
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Tire info and service
updated 2 months ago 55 Members · 108 Replies
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Is there any interest in non-inflatable tires? The idea of not needing a spare tire, and lower maintenance is appealing.
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Is a pneumatic tire better than non pneumatic?
Overall, pneumatic tires are better performing than solid tires. Pneumatic or air-filled tires are more efficient, and provide better cushioning and traction. For this reason, we always recommend them. Solid tires are zero maintenance because they don’t get flats but won’t necessarily last longer than pneumatic ones.
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I would gladly run airless tires. No need for spare tire or having to fix a flat or waiting for tow truck makes even the upper limmit of range loss worth it in my eyes.
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Regarding flat tires, I’m guessing they should be few and far between with an Aptera, at least for city driving.<div>
In over fifty years of driving, all the flat tires I’ve experienced have been nail/screw punctures, and always on one of the rear tires. So I’m guessing what typically happens is the nail or screw is lying flat on the road, the front tire runs over it and kicks it up and puts it in a position where the rear tire can run it over and get punctured. Of course with an Aptera there is no rear tire in line with the front, so the chances of this happening are basically slim and none. So there goes the main source of flat tires. And of course the light weight of the vehicle will help also.
So bottom line not too concerned about about flat tires. If I were to go on a trip with long stretches in the middle of nowhere I might consider sacrificing some of the trunk space for a spare, but I probably wouldn’t and would just hope for the best.
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IN theory, the Aptera will have less flats by foreign objects. Most flats are from the rear tires due to the front tires kicking up an item like a nail or screw, sharp rock and the rear tires hitting it. The single rear tire may save the Aptera and in turn use less tires over the life time of the vehicle. Experience of doing tires for 30 years.
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I’ve had one “Flat” in the last 20 years. It was a sheet metal screw in the tread, still drivable for a few miles, but I put the spare on since I had about 50 miles to home. My plan is to carry a tire plug patch kit and a battery powered small air compressor, which should cover most everything (punctures) except for major cuts. Even a puncture in the sidewall I could probably plug and be able to drive slowly to the nearest tire store. I would be reluctant to use the foam can if I can avoid it, it messes up the inside of the rim and the TPM.
As far as foaming the tires preemptively, keep in mind that the unsprung weight is already higher than most vehicles due to the hub motors, and Rouch Engineering is working hard to fine tune the suspension to work well with that extra unsprung weight. You go adding weight or changing to an airless tire (which comes attached to a rim and would have to be designed to work around the hub motors), you are going to be adding more response to bumps directly to the suspension rather than some being absorbed by tire flexing. You will mess up the delicate spring rate tuning. The engineers are working very hard to balance the whole suspension system to work well together, don’t go messing with their plan.
The tire tread in the pictures looked pretty aggressive, wondering how well it will work on snow and ice. I currently have 2 sets of rims, one for summer tires and one for serious Severe Service Winter Tires in the winter (Required in Colorado or else you have to use chains during traction alerts, and I’m sure there is no room for tire chains on the Aptera). If the OEM tires are not adequate for climbing the hill from Denver in the winter, I will be checking with Aptera to find the best suited Winter tire for the vehicle. Hopefully can run a narrower tire in winter for higher contact pressure and better snow traction. Especially on a very light vehicle, a wide large contact patch is not the best plan.
Hopefully Aptera has taken one or more vehicles up into the mountains and driven in the recent snow to get a better idea how that will work and what the problem areas are likely to be.
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I just noticed in the launch edition specs the tire size is listed as 195/50R16 (rather than 195/45R16 as previously expected). Submitted this for the unofficial FAQ being maintained by Steve at AOC. This is now the same tire as the original Tesla Roadster (and probably more importantly a Toyota Yaris – very readily available)
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I have a few questions about tires on the Aptera.
- Are the Valve stems on the inside or outside of the tire?
- Will it be necessary to remove the wheel pants in order to add air to the tire?
- It seems super unlikely that there will be a “Spare and a Jack in the Trunk” – Has Aptera addressed how one might expect to change a tire away from home?
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Valve stem location: Unknown, but I’ve never seen nor heard of them being inside.
Wheel pants/skirts/shrouds: Most likely yes unless they are cut higher so that the stem is exposed.
Spare & jack: Supposedly not needed as there will be a can of fix-a-flat for any tire problems.
But nobody will know the answers for sure, unless Aptera actually ever builds real world vehicles.
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Some of the guesses in this thread may answer those questions, but we’ll need to wait till closer to production to definitively answer them.
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A friend just told me that she had to replace all of her tires on a 4 Wheel Drive car that she owned. Something about all of the tires having to match. Would this apply to tires on the Aptera?
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That’s not true
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On cars tires are usually recomended to be replaced in pairs.
A flat tire dosent necessarly need to be replaced, unless it is not repairable, like a blowout or side wall damage. In the case of Aptera with three wheels, it may be best if the two front tires matched, but the rear is independant. so if one tire is not repairable put the replacement tire on the rear.
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On a vehicle with axles, it is best to replace all tires that are not within 2/32″ of an inch due to the pressures exerted on the differentials and transfer cases by the difference in tire diameters. This is not the case with vehicles with in/wheel motors. In/wheel motors are regulated by loads and there are no other parts to physically damage by speed/load/differences like when axles are attached to 1 or 3 other wheels. This does not mean the computer might have an issue set by a speed sensor code and changes to the loads applied could be an issue.
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When my original thread got merged to this one, your reply to David got ommitted. You said “Hi David, if you drive an all wheel drive ICE (Subaru, Toyota, GM, Ford. etc.) you will need you tires all within 2/32″ diameter of each other, otherwise damage to the dive line can ensue in as little as 20 miles. There are some exceptions.)”
My friend did have a Subaru and had to sign some sort of paperwork that all tires would need replacing if one went flat and couldn’t be repaired. She didn’t know the reason, but your info does make sense.
We just replaced all 4 tires on the 2002 F150, which is 2- or 4-wheel drive, after getting a screw too close to the wall of the tire for repair. However, those were all 5+ years old and needed replacing anyway. Unfortunately, we lost a couple of weights within a month of getting those tires, which the shop replaced and then rebalanced the tire for free. They were the clip-on weights and the rims are old, so that may be the issue. I’m assuming that the wheels on the Aptera will also need to be balanced and have weights applied if the tires are replaced. Any idea if they will be the clip-on or glued-on weights?
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@laura-batchelor It could also be that your friend was told that all the tires needed to be the same – that they all had to be the same size and tread pattern. Perhaps the tire that went flat was unavailable or no longer being made so she decided to replace them all with a different brand or type of tire.
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How does a variation in tire diameter effect an
ABS system?-
Elden, on some ABSs, the speed differential limits are very tight. IE…a tire worn down more takes less time to do a full rotation and there for the computer sees a faster speed at the most worn tire than at the taller/larger diameter tires. This can trigger some ABS lights to come on. Same with over inflated/underinflated tires causing TPMS and/or ABS warnings to come on.
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What about spare tire? Will one be provided? Not seen anything in post or FAQs.
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No spare is envisioned for now.
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Thanks for the info.
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I’ve had too many tires damaged by road debris that could NOT be fixed with Fix-A-Flat. Show me a tire that is 100% guaranteed to NOT be damaged in any way, shape, or form, and I might consider not carrying an emergency spare.
Also, potholes can damage wheels so tires can’t seal any more, so an emergency spare is your only recourse until you can buy a new wheel. Again show me a 100% guarantee this will never happen with an Aptera.
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Finding a compact spare that fits over the IWM/hub is likely an issue. If you really want to carry a spare, I’d plan on carrying a full size spare same as the other 3. Because it wouldn’t cause any issues with ABS , drive/torque management, etc.
I wouldn’t carry one myself on a regular basis. I understand for some cases and some owners it’ll make sense. But I think for the majority, it won’t.
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The wheels will be standard 16″ wheels and they recently changed the tire size to a more readily available size. The motors are in housings similar to drum brake housings and the hub for mounting the wheel on is attached to the housing. There have been several diagrams showing the wheel mounting.
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These are all reasons to carry a full size spare on and OEM type wheel. If you intend to source your *own* compact spare, I wish you luck finding one that will fit and match the diameter/revs per mile of the selected tire.
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You understand the concept of a compact temporary spare, don’t you? It is to get you back on the road so you can get to a place to have the standard tire repaired/replaced; not for continuous use. Most tell you to limit your speed to no more than 50 mph. They also have a higher inflation requirement (60 PSI for the one in my Miata).
The ORIGINAL Aptera tire size was 195/45×16 which called for a 6 – 7.5 inch rim width but since that is a very rare tire size, they changed it to 195/50×16 which uses a 5.5 – 7 inch rim. So you would look for a compact temporary that can be used in place of that rim size. I found a few ranging from T135/70 to T155/90. Of course, we’ll have to wait until Aptera finalizes the specs sometime in the next 18 months to decide; who knows it might be better to buy a 16″ x 5.5″ wheel and then putting the lightest tire that will fit that rim width.
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Personally, the wheel and tire sizes aren’t going to be that much of a space saver. To take the path of a space saving tire, you still need to get to a tire shop. Most tire deals involve sets of 4 is the other thing to consider, also you have an extra tire to use when it’s time to rotate.
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It isn’t the space so much as the weight. The temporary compact spare T105/70×15 in my Miata weighs much less than the 205/50×15 on the car. As for space, the overall diameter is 2.28″ smaller than the full size. Thus going for the lightest 16″ rim and temporary spare tire for the Aptera might be the way to go.
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You won’t be rotating tires on the Aptera.
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Why?
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Treadwear happens at different rates between the front and back tires. When you rotate a vehicle’s tires you always keep the left/right tires opposite each other so as to keep similar tread life between the left/right side of the vehicle. That can’t be done with the Aptera because one of its wheels doesn’t have a matching wheel(rear wheel). If you do decide to do some weird clockwise rotation(no mechanic would ever recommend this) you’ll start running into vehicle drift problems.
There is also the possibility that Aptera picks a tire with a directional tread which means that the tire is designed to rotate in a certain direction only. Not likely but you never know.
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Treadwear happens at different rates between the front and back tires.
It’s also an issue of different wear type and pattern. Which is why I’m planning on a 4th as a spare, to do my own alignment and rotation.
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The rate the tread wears down on the front tires is always larger than the rear treadwear regardless of tread pattern/type.
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This reply was modified 3 months ago by Krzysztof Rudzinski. Reason: Reworded
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This reply was modified 3 months ago by
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I will be rotating tires. Doing my own alignment…
Getting the absolute best mileage possible will require it.
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Won’t rotating the single rear be restricted to the side it is orientated on the hub?
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Depends on the tread pattern selected. And even with a directional tread it could just be flipped on the rim. I doubt they’ll go with a directional tread.
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Having to REMOVE the tires from the rims is not a normal part of rotating them. As long as you keep the rotation of the front and rear tires on the same side of the vehicle, you don’t have to remove them from their rims. Remember that radial tires take a “set” so you should not just move the entire wheel and tire to the opposite side; if you want to move a tire to the opposite side, then of course you have to remove them from the rim and remount them properly with the side that was on the rim inside now on the rim outside.
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Having to REMOVE the tires from the rims is not a normal part of rotating them.
It’s normal and somewhat required for certain setups like staggered sizes and directional tread. So it depends on your definition of ‘normal’. 3 wheels is already not ‘normal’.
I generally like using the entire usable life of things I buy…I will do whatever it takes to manage the tire wear. Procedures outside of normal as probably need be.
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Picking a spare isn’t all that simple. I think at least one you mentioned finding is too tall. Matching the diameter may be required by one or more of the vehicle systems if Aptera does not program them to allow for the mismatch. Offsets and clearances for typical steel spare wheels often do not clear brakes and hubs that they are not specifically designed for.
Any 16” wheel may not clear the the IWM.
Any wheel with a common bolt pattern like 5×4.5 (just a guess but Ford, Toyota and Tesla use this pattern) but do not necessarily share the same hub size (the protrusion that actually transfers wheel loads). Fit there is critical to safety.
Then there’s the irony of carrying a steel wheel…with the wrong size donut which you don’t actually know will work when you need it.
A full size spare in an OEM wheel won’t have any issues *and* could make it easier doing tire rotations should one choose to.
That said, I’d go with a T125/80-R16, IFF I were to try to find a 16×4 steelie that would fit properly. Or wait for the aftermarket to fill the niche, like they’ve done for Tesla and others.
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Would definitely purchase with my delivery to have a 4th wheel and tire. No need to seek aftermarket wheels or tires.
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Since the Aptera will have far more unsprung mass than the average vehicle aftermarket rims would actually be the first modification I would suggest on the vehicle. Traditionally OEM manufacturers have used cast rims on their vehicles because they’re the cheapest option but also very heavy. A forged set of aftermarket rims of comparable size can be up to 15-30% lighter and just as if not more durable. Only issue is the price…expect to pay 3-5x what the factory rims would cost, which is why I confident Aptera won’t spend the money there.
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The weight difference would be negligible and not worth the money. The Aptera engineers have put the right wheels on it. That’s my opinion.
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Traditionally OEM manufacturers have used cast rims on their vehicles because they’re the cheapest option but also very heavy.
I think most use cast because cheap and durable to prevent warranty and legal claims.
The Aptera wheels shown on the first page of this thread don’t look that heavy and may not be so bad weight wise. If there’s more than a couple of pounds to save going aftermarket with a forged or flow-formed wheel I’d consider that, but I wouldn’t go to an ultra-light race type that’ll dent on the first big pothole I hit.
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“The Aptera wheels shown on the first page of this thread don’t look that heavy and may not be so bad weight wise.”
Speaking of those, does anyone know who made them?
Edit. They look close to BBS SR 16×7 wheels so maybe that is who.
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This reply was modified 3 months ago by
Dennis Swaney. Reason: Added possible source
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This reply was modified 3 months ago by
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I’m sure there was a post on the forum a while back, around the time of the Delta design release, where we had looked at both the wheels and tyres. There were several wheels which looked very similar and only differed in the detail where the spokes touch the rim.
I seem to recall that they were deliberately using a wheel spec which was already in use by a major manufacturer to make availability easier.
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This happened to me on Saturday, the 22nd just outside Indianapolis. Your can of fix-a-flat would be useless:
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Come on man! Who are you kidding? That tire is as bald as Telly Savalas. It should have been replaced years ago. Not only that, after it went flat you drove on it for miles.
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No, there was still sufficient tread but you can’t see it because I only took photos from the sides. I heard a loud rumbling noise on the Interstate and pulled off immediately because some miles back I’d hit a small pothole with the left front and thought that was the problem. LF was good as was LR, and RR; this was the right front.
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Wow, how old was that tire? I ask because I had a tire fall apart on me like that in 1999 due to age. It was on a 1988 Wrangler, and I had to use the spare tire a few days before the incident, not even thinking about the fact that it was the original spare tire that came with the Jeep when new. I learned that day (I was 21 and rather ignorant at the time) that old tires can succumb to dry rot, and shouldn’t be used even if they have plenty of tread left on them. Sadly, that Wrangler didn’t survive my learning experience, as it occurred at highway speed and resulted in my Jeep slamming into a tree. 😢
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This reply was modified 2 months ago by William Hester. Reason: Corrected grammatical error
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This reply was modified 2 months ago by Gabriel Kemeny.
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6 years and 46,000 miles. BTW, the spare was in pristine condition and has a 3504 date! I put about 50 miles on it getting to a tire shop. However, since the Jetta was built in November 2004 and the spare is a Continental made in France, it obviously came with the Jetta from the factory so I’m going to have the cheap Nexen I bought in Indianapolis put on the spare rim.
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This reply was modified 2 months ago by
