Too Wide?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Too Wide?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Too Wide?

  • Too Wide?

  • Donald Borger

    Member
    May 23, 2022 at 9:09 am

    I’ve been a reservation holder for about a year and was just thinking about the 88″ width of the Aptera. That’s 22″ wider than my current SUV and I’m concerned about getting them both to fit in the garage. With the wide stance and the fact that the driver can’t see the right wheel pants, I’m also concerned that the right wheel pants will get beat up from hitting curbs or other objects that weren’t a concern in a “normal” car. Parking might also be more challenging. Does anyone else have these concerns? I don’t want to keep it parked outside, since I’m in the midwest and we get a range of weather: snow, sleet, rain, hail, etc.

  • BigSky Country

    Member
    May 23, 2022 at 9:52 am

    This is a bit of a tongue in cheek in my next sentence, so take it in stride. Given I ordered a simple, plastic bodied, vehicle with barely over 1,000 parts that operates on solar energy, I plan to leave this one outside mostly in deferrence to my other cars. I am assuming, through practice, for the times I do garage it, I use the left side to judge where I am entering and exiting the garage anyway (like my other cars). I’ll just need to tuck it in closer on the left (I think I read the clearance is only 4 inches on each side, so we’ll need to be more cautious). I am curious about the parallel parking piece though. I scratch up my rims today on the granite curbs, so I do think that will continue to be a problem for me.

    • Dennis Swaney

      Member
      May 23, 2022 at 10:59 am

      The problem here is that we have hail storms so any vehicle parked outside is subject to hail damage. That said my Miata is 66″ wide with out mirrors (76″ with) and for my Jetta Wagon add 2″ to those measurements. So while I can park both in the garage now, it is still some what tight; neither could be parked with an Aptera. In addition it looks like the Aptera doors, when opened, will hit the opened garage door overhead. Does anyone have a height measurement for an open Aptera door? All I see is the dimension of 57″ to the roof.

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Dennis Swaney.
      • David LeDane

        Member
        May 23, 2022 at 4:38 pm

        In the FAQ it says the height is currently 6’2”. Says it may change slightly in production, but I doubt it will get to the height of a garage door. Hope this helps.

        • Dennis Swaney

          Member
          May 24, 2022 at 8:49 am

          Yes, that is good to know. The hatches on my Prius and Jetta Wagon almost hit the open door and the pictures I saw showed the Aptera open doors looking like they were at least 24″ above the top of the Aptera. I’ll have to measure the Jetta’s open hatch; the Prius has been sold.

      • Bradey Burk

        Member
        May 26, 2022 at 4:38 am

        Invest in a driveway awning.

        • Dennis Swaney

          Member
          June 15, 2022 at 8:22 am

          It would have to be hail proof, but also transparent for the solar charging. So do you know of a source for transparent aluminum? 🙂

    • Nicholas Dedoszak

      Member
      June 15, 2022 at 8:54 am

      I have the same philosophy for this vehicle, by the time I take delivery of the vehicle we will be living in northern Montana, and it will be more of a commuting, grocery getter, or small in state trips. In summer that thing will be parked outside all day, especially beneficial with 15+ hours of sun in the peak of summer. This little guy is what I hope will enable a nice fun car purchase, like an electric Karmann Ghia. Thinking about it though, it probably wouldn’t be difficult to develop a sensor for each wheel that would alert the driver to their distance from an object similar to early systems for front and rear parking sensors, getting supply chains and prototypes complete are rightfully so likely higher priority tasks for Aptera at the moment.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    May 23, 2022 at 10:14 am

    The issue has been raised on this forum from time to time with no viable solution suggested.

    Aptera will not make the vehicle less wide for the version manufactured for the next few years. When they engineer the Aptera for the EU they make it more narrow to satisfy regulations there. They will be engineering a 4/5 seat, four wheel version within a few years, which, because of the four wheels for stability, may be more narrow.

    Curtis Cibinel, a tech oriented poster on the forum has suggested a 360 degree camera view so the driver could see the front wheels. A good solution, but not sure if Aptera will implement in the first production vehicles. I will attach a “Stick” on the right wheel pant at first (Removable when not parking) so cans see where it is until I am comfortable driving and parking knowing this will slightly affect aero.

    • Titus Meusel

      Member
      May 24, 2022 at 11:08 am

      Have I missed some official info or hint on a narrower EU version, John? Have you heard something? Off course Aptera will be laser focussed on the US launch for now. But I am dreaming day and night of an adjusted EU modell. From an earlier Q&A with Chris Anthony I got the impression Aptera plans to sell an unchanged (wide) version to EU customers and homogenization will be a matter of paperworks.

      Don’t want to stress that again, but I think that an Aptera with a the width of a lorry will be a tough sell over here.

    • Konijnerd the Great

      Member
      May 28, 2022 at 12:43 pm

      thats a statement that aptera has never claimed.

      Aptera said it could perhaps change the width, or try to work with EU lawmakers. So in the end, we don’t know what Aptera is going to do, probably because they don’t know themselfs yet how to deal with this issue.

  • Thomas Bushaw

    Member
    May 23, 2022 at 10:18 am

    Check out these videos by Drive The Lightning — also look through the associated comments where there are some useful information and insights:

    Is the Aptera too wide at 88″? Let’s test it!

    Aptera is a wide Electric Car. Here’s the facts (again)

    For us, our single-wide garage door opening is 104″ wide, so we’ll have 8″ clearance on each side which should be okay (if not, we have a double-wide door, too, but that side of the garage is filled with stuff 🙄 that will have to be rearranged… or tossed). We typically back our car into the single-wide garage using the back-up camera on our car for guidance. I’ve also laid down a reflective strip down the center of the garage to help with the alignment and to make sure we don’t back in too far and bash the freezer. (See attached video.) I suspect something similar will work for the Aptera if it turns out that 8″ on each side is difficult to maintain. Our current car (Subaru Outback) has a wingspan of 81¾” — narrower, but not a whole lot narrower.

    Without the camera and the alignment “guidance system,” not seeing the right wheel pants would make me a bit nervous, but if I watch the left wheel pants while backing and keep it close to the edge of the door (but not too close!), then I know the right side will be okay.

    0:21

    IMG_5507

    0:21

    • John Malcom

      Member
      May 23, 2022 at 1:28 pm

      IImpressive! Looks like a carrier landing system

      • Dennis Swaney

        Member
        May 25, 2022 at 8:38 am

        Just needs Siri or Alexa to say “Call the ball”!

  • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

    Member
    May 23, 2022 at 5:01 pm

    aptera wouldnt be so big if they used those bmw i3 tires (i dont know how much of those are made) with taller thinner motors,

    move the front axle a bit more closer to front end to allow same amount fo space between cabin and wheels except narrower

    front end of cabin can be arrow pointed like ariel atom 4s <time aria-label=”Edited Yesterday at 4:23 PM” datetime=”2022-05-22T20:23:52.515Z” style=”font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; letter-spacing: 0px;”>(edited)</time>the space in middle could be narrower if there was a thin barrier preventing to occupants from touching each other or maybe put the arm area of passenger behind driver seat as done in vw xl1 so its longer, so areodynamics wont be much less if affected at and narrower

    some space between occupants and out end of car in cabin can be decrease

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      May 23, 2022 at 6:31 pm

      That would save a few inches at the expense of rare tires, poor acceration, and useless winter performance. It would also improve efficiency so definitely has upsides but personally I wouldn’t buy an aptera if it used them.

  • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

    Member
    May 23, 2022 at 5:02 pm

    bmiw i3 type tire could be mailed, and any other tire could work meanwhile

  • Raj Giandeep

    Member
    May 23, 2022 at 6:16 pm

    I think the vision assisted parking will make this a non-issue to be honest. I made a video about the width of the Aptera in the real world with parking, road, etc. Will take some getting used to no doubt

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfJsHNOy7sA

  • Qiang Fu

    Member
    May 23, 2022 at 8:09 pm

    My daily commute in the past 5 years is a Mercedes Metris which is exactly 88 inches mirror to mirror (75.9″ without mirrors). The width of the van has never been an issue (the height has…). However, I agree with several posts that the width on the ground could be more challenging for the drivers than the width close to driver’s eye level. My garage is about 90″ wide and I pull in and out of garage carefully by almost brushing the driver-side mirror with the edge of the garage door. It would certainly be a more difficult maneuver with wheel pants.

    Is it true that the driver cannot see the passenger side wheel pant? I am wondering whether some kinds of lighting device or parking sensors on the wheel pant can be installed to help the driver be more aware of the outer edge of the pant.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Qiang Fu.
  • Juan 911

    Member
    May 23, 2022 at 9:25 pm

    The width is a concern of mine too. I understand that when you take side view mirrors into account, normal cars are about the same width as the Aptera, however, it’s not like the vital components in normal cars are located in the side mirrors and you don’t have to worry about hitting your mirrors on curbs and other obstacles. I hope it’s a nonissue though.

  • Thomas Bushaw

    Member
    May 24, 2022 at 10:59 am

    Another consideration (apologies if this has already been addressed here or elsewhere): What is the maximum with of the Aptera as the doors are opened? Do the doors extend out further than the wheel pants? This could be an issue in tight parking spots or (in my case) opening the passenger door in the garage (close to some cabinets along the garage wall). It’s probably no worse than conventional doors that swing out. With those, though, you have the option of opening them part way and squeezing in or out (we’ve all done it!). I suppose with the Aptera you might be able to open it part way and duck in or out?

  • Francis Giroux

    Member
    May 24, 2022 at 4:59 pm

    Donald,

    You must have a real small SUV, 66″ is the width of a Miata without the mirrors (see Dennis’s post below). But I have a Geezer trick for you that I learned from my grandfather (Now I am a grandfather, 71 years old). If you want to park your Aptera in the garage in an exact spot so your other car can also fit in, have someone guide you into that perfect spot, then mark where the tires are with a pencil. Then hang a string/yarn/ribbon from the ceiling, with a small weight (metal nut) tied to the bottom of it. Hang it so the yarn just touches your center headlight (or center of the front of the car you drive now) but the weight is safely below and not touching the car. Then each time you drive into the garage take the same approach (hug the right/left side). Aim your headlight toward that string/yarn and inch forward until you see the yard move, stop. You should be almost exactly in the same spot you were guided to. Check the tire markings on the floor. If you need more guidance for the approach, hang another string/yarn with just a soft item on the end raised up so it just touches the top of the headlight as you drive in and it just touches your hood and windshield as you drive in further. If you have an overhead door you will want to attach this string/yarn to the overhead door so that it is short enough to not hit the floor when the door goes down (fairly high on the door).

    I would plan to park the Aptera in first then the other car which may be parked back enough to not reach the wheel pant if there is enough room. If that car has to be precision parked too, do the same thing for guidance.

    If you want to see where your right tire pant is when parking in a lot get a fiberglass rod from Lowe’s or Home Depot. Its only about 1/4″ diameter and 3-4 feet long. They are sold for driveway markers for snow plowers/snow blowers. Get or make a metal holder (shaped like the letter p) that you can screw or rivet to the outside of the wheel pant. Make sure you make a bottom stop for your p holder so when you stick the fiberglass rod into the p it doesn’t drop all the way through to the ground. When you go to the parking lot and are afraid to pull into a tight spot, stop and put the rod into the p holder, then park and remove the rod. I’ll bet that after a few times you’ll know where the wheel pant is and you won’t use the rod again.

    Geezers should pass on their knowledge to their grandchildren and others.

    • Gary Greenway

      Member
      May 25, 2022 at 7:44 am

      We had a tiny rubber ball hung on a string suspended from the ceiling. You can fix it to the string with a small eye screw into the ball.

    • Dennis Swaney

      Member
      May 25, 2022 at 8:52 am

      I installed LiftMaster 975LM Laser Parking Assists in my previous garage and have a pair to install at my new place.

      As for the fiberglas rod idea, I did some thing similar when we got our Prius back in ’04. My wife was concerned about the front edge of the car so I mounted a short radio antenna to the license plate holder so she could see it. It was to be just a training aid but she wanted it left on so it was until we sold the car two weeks ago.

  • Rashid Clark

    Member
    May 25, 2022 at 7:19 pm

    Hi Donald. Yes, the wide wheel-span worries me too.

    What I think would be helpful would be,

    A) An overhead view of the vehicle and its surroundings while parking, like what some of the Hyundai and Kia vehicles offer.

    B) Having this view also be available (although smaller on the screen) while driving, so that the right wheel’s placement in the lane can be seen.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      May 25, 2022 at 7:29 pm

      3rd party systems exist on Amazon. Including a basic screen of should be around $200 to add something if it isn’t native to the car.

  • Rémy Bouchardy

    Member
    May 26, 2022 at 5:50 am

    Hi Donald,

    I also think it’s a bit too wide, especially for Europe, where the roads and parking slots are smaller than in the US.

    I can’t find the Aptera’s ground clearance, but on the photos, it looks pretty high (I’m talking about the body’s ground clearance and not the wheel covers.) So perhaps a solution would be having a narrower Aptera but closer to the ground so the handling of the car wouldn’t be that much worst than a wider version.

    But from now, I’m just waiting to see how it will evolve, because Aptera has made a lot of changes on its model in a short amount of time… so we’ll see ! 🙂

  • Nicholas Maskell

    Member
    May 28, 2022 at 3:38 am

    I wish they would make it narrower, especially for sales in Europe. If they brought the wheels in and forward they wouldn’t compromise aerodynamics and it would look better too. They could also get rid of those oversized wheel covers which look a bit unnecessary. Add some fold down rear seats and it’d be a great seller but at the moment I think it has some issues that will put people off.

    • Konijnerd the Great

      Member
      May 28, 2022 at 12:45 pm

      Stability is probably a issue, shaving off the width. They will not do it for the US, so it stands to reason the EU wont have mass sellings/production till fossils in the governments allow for better changes. Which will take quite some years, if ever.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        May 28, 2022 at 12:54 pm

        In the change management business the saying is “A generation has to die out before meaningful change can be made”

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        May 28, 2022 at 1:38 pm

        Based on solo, spiritus and nobe I think it can be assumed that a bit narrower wont immediately result in an unstable vehicle. Nobe skips the center console to save on width. Active suspension which lifts the front end and narrows the parking stance would be expensive. I cant see a lot of ways Aptera could shave enough width (about a 10 inches) for europe with the current basic design. The eventual family sedan will likely skip the wheel pods concept and be more europe compatible.

        • Konijnerd the Great

          Member
          May 29, 2022 at 7:15 am

          we are talking about 20 centimeters. That doesn’t seem like much, but i bet thats a hefty challenge from a engineering standpoint.

          • Dennis Swaney

            Member
            May 29, 2022 at 9:48 am

            About 8″ for those who aren’t metric minded.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    May 28, 2022 at 2:32 pm

    They can’t possibly do a new vehicle in less than three years, maybe more. The only changes that they can make now are those that bring in the production schedule and that means dropping any feature that isn’t working today from the first production vehicles and then introducing them at later dates when they are ready. Aptera needs to start production as soon as possible, not only because of the revenue it brings in but more importantly to create credibility with investors which they are going to need in order to raise enough money to ramp production.

    What makes the Aptera unique is that it’s 2 to 3 times as efficient as next most efficient EV. Everything else that they can do is derived from that one fact, solar power, only works because they use so little power, extreme range, only works because they can stretch the power in a small battery to give them the range of a ridiculously large battery. To get there they’ve traded off the 4th wheel, the back seat and width, there are big downsides to those tradeoffs but if they are to survive they have to establish themselves as the company with the ultra efficient EV. Nobody else is going after this niche, nobody else is going to be able to build anything that’s even close to the efficiency of the Aptera because no one else will make those tradeoffs.

    But if they don’t get the car out the door soon they will run out of money and they will find that it’s increasingly harder to raise more. Assuming they can meet the current schedule and ship something by the end of this year and then start a reasonable ramp up next year they’ll have the time to fill in the features that aren’t currently working. My expectation will be that the first cars will be bare bones 2WD 400 mile units. I’d bet that they won’t have ADAS because they haven’t even picked the supplier yet. They might not have full solar either if they run into any complications with production. Over the next year or two they’ll fill in the features that they’ve already promised, small battery for sure, 60KWh battery probably, 100KWh battery doubtful but who knows. AWD, maybe by the middle of next year. ADAS, sometime before the end of next year. Once they’ve done all that they can start on the next platform which will be narrower, have four wheels and have a back seat. However for that vehicle to succeed it will also have to be ultra efficient, at least 2X the competition, because if it isn’t then there will be no reason for anyone to buy it instead of just getting an EV from a big manufacturer.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      May 28, 2022 at 3:22 pm

      Joshua,

      You have no idea what Aptera is capable of and no backglround in vehicle R&D or production and no special insight into Aptera plans and schedules that would lend credibility to the speculation in your post.

      Aptera will have a vehicle deliverable to Europe by 2024 as that is the timeframe they have forecasted in their schedule. I would bet they have been working on the design of that vehicle if not the engineering for some time.

      There is also no basis for your “Sky is falling” forecast of barebones Apterae production deliveries to customers. Think for a minute what would happen to the market reputation of Aptera if they decided to do that……..market and business suicide.. They are smarter than that

      I have great admiration for Aptera engineers and Aptera management and believe they will do the right things as they have done in the past to get where we are. Lets be positive and supportive down the stretch.

      • Konijnerd the Great

        Member
        May 29, 2022 at 7:13 am

        You claim Joshua has no idea what Aptera is capable of, but the same goes for you. Aptera exists for a long time already, and is not in mass production yet.

        Your claim that they will -have- (not probably, likely etc) a vehicle deliverable to Europe by 2024 is very, very unrealistic as Europian Laws do not allow Aptera’s width. So either they need to re-design the whole car, or make changes to our car laws. This already assumes they have started mnass production and shipping in the US in start of 2023.

        Maybe 2025, i would say. Be realistic.

        EDIT: And your post is basically also speculation then, even if you present them in your post as fact.

        • John Malcom

          Member
          May 29, 2022 at 8:50 am

          Post listed on menu must have been last on page first on next page. Hopefully this post will make it viewable

          • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  John Malcom.
  • Georg Kuhnke

    Member
    June 14, 2022 at 11:55 pm

    <div>I would like to add my 5 cents — pre-inflation ;-)</div><div>

    </div><div>

    As my father like to say when I was but a teenager and we were discussing my rapidly improving driving skills … “You can be the best driver in the world … it doesn’t matter. The problem is the OTHER driver.”

    The problem here is not so much how careful I am with parking myself. I am much more concerned about the “odd bulk” of the vehicle when passing an oncoming driver. The other driver’s focus is at eye level, and my Aptera will be a distraction already anyways. The maximum width is at ground level. If I was an oncoming bus of the same total width … the other driver alertness would be quite different. Need I say more ?

    On top of that … any damage incurred at Aptera’s ground level maximum width … is super expensive, since that’s where the motors are 🙁

    Cheers,

    🙂 Georg

    </div>

    • Francis Giroux

      Member
      June 15, 2022 at 4:15 am

      George, if you’re concerned about the bottom width, with nothing up top to warn the oncoming drivers, you could always bolt on a couple F-150 mirrors and triple your aerodynamic drag. Or you could hang a couple Trump flags out there and quintuple your drag.

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