Transport Evolved review Of Archimoto torque vector power steering

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Transport Evolved review Of Archimoto torque vector power steering

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Transport Evolved review Of Archimoto torque vector power steering

  • Transport Evolved review Of Archimoto torque vector power steering

     Tim Dean updated 3 months, 2 weeks ago 9 Members · 13 Posts
  • Bob Kirchner

    August 11, 2021 at 8:01 am

    I’m thinking this is similar to what Aptera is going to have.

  • Raj Giandeep

    August 11, 2021 at 9:31 am

    Fun to see torque vectoring on another vehicle. Nice with Aptera that they can eliminate the power steering (and save weight) with torque vectoring.

  • Tim Dean

    March 20, 2022 at 9:48 am

    Torque vectoring controls wheel slip. In a curve when the inside wheel is traveling a lesser distance than the outside wheel, torque (and wheel speed/power) can be applied separately to these wheels for better traction & control through the competing arcs. How is this applied to the rear wheel in a three wheel vehicle when there is no competing wheel arch? Isn’t torque vectoring a moot when there is no wheel to the side? The only benefits I see to the rear wheel motor is (1) more power & traction to the ground during acceleration. (2) increase regeneration when braking. Of course these benefits come with a higher purchase price, increased complexity and what may be a 6 months to a year delivery delay.

    Full solar? I Pay around $.10 per kilowatt hour for off Peak power. The Aptera uses about 100 watts per mile. I would cost about one penny per mile to drive. How many miles /years would it take to to break even for the full solar solar package? (Calculator anyone?)

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Tim Dean.
    • Ray Holan

      March 20, 2022 at 3:52 pm

      This is a good question, Tim. I’ve gone back and forth about whether to get FWD or AWD. I was under the impression that torque vectoring would only be available on AWD Apterae. Perhaps one of more knowledgeable members can weigh in on the how and why of torque vectoring and whether it’s viable with AWD vs. FWD.

      • Paul Schultz

        March 20, 2022 at 5:47 pm

        The common reference to torque vectoring that I have encountered is exactly what is posted above for a 4-wheel vehicle to compensate for different wheel travel during a turn. However, this is not the only use of torque vectoring. In the Aptera, it only provides an advantage to the front wheels with separate drive motors just as depicted in the Arcimotor video above. In the Aptera, torque vectoring is not possible in the single rear wheel. So, whether FWD or AWD torque vectoring of the front wheels will be possible in all Aptera 3-wheel vehicles.

    • kerbe2705

      March 20, 2022 at 5:20 pm

      @Bob Kirchner I think it was a semantic choice: What they’re REALLY talking about is “Differential Steering” – which is, essentially, torque vectoring applied to the front wheels. It’s just not so sexy – or well-known – a term.

    • George Hughes

      March 20, 2022 at 5:21 pm


      Torque vectoring in a three-wheel vehicle is just torque vectoring. In a corner, the outboard wheel has one arc and one unique distance to travel, the center rear-wheel also has its only distinct arc as does the inside front wheel. Torque vectoring simply adjusts the power to each motor to maintain maximum traction during whatever acceleration, deceleration or constant power input you input as driver.

      Real world testing confirms the benefits of said torque vectoring in increasing performance.

      In regard your cost to benefit analysis of the full solar, which I believe is a $1,200 add-on. As your cost per-mile for electricity is a single cent, your payoff on the solar would require traveling 120,000 miles.

      The thing you miss in your cost analysis is the comparative cost of energy. Using the same imagery of a penny a mile, consider how many miles you could go for the cost of a gallon of gasoline at the current national average – something like 420 miles at your cost of electricity.

      My off-peak rate through the co-op for overnight use (because of but not specifically for EV charging) is .04 cents a kwh which, powered from my existing EVSE, would mean the cost of powering my Aptera from the grid would be less than a half-cent a mile. This means, for the same $4.15 an ICE driver would pay for a single gallon of regular gasoline, I could drive my Aptera over a thousand miles.

      Whether or not one gets the solar package is not just a dollar and cents issue. It will depend on what other alternatives you have or expect to have for power. If you’re off-grid the additional solar makes sense just because you can always benefit from more power when off-grid. In a place like So. Cal with a lot of sun and 25 cent kwh costs, if you’ve got roof-top parking, solar charging makes sense.

      If you add V2H options to the Aptera, the value proposition becomes a bit more broad as the Aptera becomes a rather elaborate portable generator/energy bank. That utility may justify part of the investment in the additional solar suggesting that a good marketing practice would be to install the V2H option as a standard feature for the full solar package.

      But WOW, over a thousand miles of travel for the cost of a single gallon of regular gasoline.

      • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  George Hughes.
      • Tim Dean

        March 21, 2022 at 5:37 am

        Well thought out analysis. I mentioned these 2 features specifically because I love efficiency and full disclosures. Everything has a cost and must be scrutinized by both a cost/use and needs/wants paradigm. We didn’t even discuss the resale values or “cool factor”.

        Still, it appears that the FWD 400 mile range Aptera will ship 6-12 months before the AWD and hyperinflation or stag inflation will accelerate due to foolish Kensian “broken windows” federal pork borrowing & spending. (Power-drunk fools with other peoples money & credit who’s stock & trade are half-truths, extortion & bribery 😟).

        Anyway, I live in Virginia with less expensive (less taxed & regulated) energy and I don’t drag race between stoplights so I’ve changed my order accordingly. Who knows what Aptera will be forced to change for their cars in 2024!?!?

        I want my Aptera NOW!

    • Riley ________________________________

      March 20, 2022 at 5:40 pm

      My electric rate is .33 off peak and .35 peak so the $900 full solar will pay for itself in 30,000 miles.

      • Paul Schultz

        March 20, 2022 at 5:56 pm

        Wow. Do they have a better plan that charges less for off-peak vehicle charging? That is much higher than I experience here in the midwest. I am between a rate of 11 and 12 cents/kWh. My off-peak plan provides about 7-8 cents/kWh for overnight use.

        • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Paul Schultz.
        • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

          March 20, 2022 at 7:57 pm

          Checking the PG&E website says their lowest EV rate is .24 per kWh, and with all their liability judgements for the problems over the past few years, that can be expected to rise. I’m fortunate in only having them for gas and have the benefit of being in a SMUD area for electric.

          • Riley ________________________________

            March 20, 2022 at 9:54 pm

            I’ve looked into the EV rate that PG&E offers and it requires the installation of a dedicated 220 charging station that isn’t possible in my apartment complex. My only option is 110.

            • Tim Dean

              March 21, 2022 at 5:45 am

              15 amp, 110v standard US current is fine for most overnight charging. Be sure to use a properly rated outside cord. Cold weather use the blue one.

              Please keep in mind that since the Aptera uses energy more efficiently (about 3x more than a Model 3) it charges 3x faster per mile on comparable charging scenarios. Plus, most people rarely NEED a 100% charge from zero and level 2 fast charging is available when needed. Everyone’s use case is different. Opportunity charging is key.

              • This reply was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by  Tim Dean.
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