Will Aptera trigger road sensors?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Will Aptera trigger road sensors?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Will Aptera trigger road sensors?

  • Will Aptera trigger road sensors?

    Posted by mark-salyzyn on August 21, 2022 at 1:34 pm

    Riding big motorcycles near for half century. And yet have always had troubles being at the stop line where the magnetic sensor loops are embedded to trigger a light change, or a phase transition for left hand turns. I keep the local cops on speed dial and call ’em to report any insensitive loops.

    Betcha a vehicle made of composites is going to have the same problem. Too late to ask to switch to more ferrous materials now that we have reached Gamma and vehicle design has been stopped and replaced with production equipment design.

    Do you think the 1000 mile variant will fair better than the 250 mile? Cobalt, Lithium and Copper are not ferrous. Do you think the in-wheel motors with all the exotic and iron magnetic pathways and tight airgaps will look after this problem? But they are at the edges far away from the loops centered behind the limit line. AWD might work if you inch over the limit line and place the rear motor over the loop.

    What are your thoughts?

    steven-g-bueche replied 1 year, 3 months ago 16 Members · 8 Replies
  • 8 Replies
  • Will Aptera trigger road sensors?

    steven-g-bueche updated 1 year, 3 months ago 16 Members · 8 Replies
  • 993cc

    August 21, 2022 at 2:35 pm

    This is way beyond my areas of knowledge, but I have a suspicion that the electromagnetic fields from the hub motors might trigger the sensors at stoplights. Maybe you’d have to rock the car back and forth a bit?

  • efficiency4me

    August 21, 2022 at 3:31 pm

    There are magnets in the Elaphe electric motors in the wheel hubs which I assume have very powerful magnets I would assume that should be enough to trigger the in road sensors.

  • glenn-zajic

    August 21, 2022 at 3:50 pm

    I think you have a good point. I am hoping either the cage for the front suspension or the rear wheels’ motor will trigger the sensors. There is also a large aluminum plate under the battery package to assist in cooling and metal in the batteries themselves that might do it. But you are right that the composite body will not trigger them.

  • kerbe2705

    August 21, 2022 at 4:17 pm

    Some Tesla Model S had this problem, as the vehicle is almost entirely made from aluminum. When they started producing AWD versions, though, the problem went away – because the magnets in the front motor would trigger the traffic light induction switch.

    Aptera’s two front motors should be more than sufficient to task.

  • gary-greenway

    August 22, 2022 at 9:54 am

    The inductive coils in the roadway react to ferromagnetic materials such as iron, nickle, cobalt etc. There is iron in the front subframe, brake rotors and calipers, and wheel motors, There is nickle and cobalt in the battery.

  • steven-g-bueche

    August 22, 2022 at 11:46 am

    I used to install those same loops for driveway gates. They are the very same used in traffic situations. In most states these have gone away and replaced with cameras that have vehicle/motion sensors. I don’t think this will be an issue. Besides, it’ll give those people chasing you a chance to catch up and ask what you’re driving. 🤩

  • Pistonboy

    October 26, 2022 at 3:56 pm

    What can I do for those rare times the Aptera may not trigger traffic lights due to its abundance of composite and aluminum and little (if any) iron?

    I may place a piece of iron foil on the floor of the frunk or perhaps under the trunk carpeting. So, what is iron foil? It is exactly like aluminum foil except it is made of pure iron. It can be purchased on ebay and from other sources. If placed in the frunk on the floor, it would be wide and probably affect the traffic light sensor wiring in the pavement. Under the trunk carpet, it would be larger but higher off the ground and farther from the sensor wiring. Other places in the composite body would also work but would not be accessible seeing the vehicle is already assembled. The important thing is the physical dimensions of the iron, not its mass.

    Another possibility is magnetic paint. So, what is magnetic paint? It is paint with powdered iron in it. It can be painted on a surface, and when dry, a magnet will stick to it. If it is able to interact with the magnetic field of the magnetic, it should be able to interact with the weak magnetic field induced by the pavement wiring. (Traffic lights will send small current through the wiring to sense its inductance.) Magnetic paint is commonly available. It can also be purchased on ebay and probably ordered at the home improvement stores.

    What are your ideas?

  • Dr.D

    October 26, 2022 at 4:18 pm

    As Aptera is an autocycle, no issue in Virginia. Here we have the “Two and Two” law. If a motorcycle (autocycle) is at a red light and the light does not trip in two minutes, or (for left turn) the light cycles twice without a left turn arrow, then the driver may proceed if the situation is safe. I used that law often on motorcycles.

    Also, the issue of a traffic light not triggering for a motorcycle (autocycle) can be reported to VDOT, who will investigate the setting of the light sensors.

  • Skully

    October 26, 2022 at 4:18 pm

    This comes up in motorcycle circles occasionally, with varying results.

    The best thing to do is note the intersection and report it to the appropriate government authority to be corrected. If it is calibrated correctly, it shouldn’t be an issue.

    The next best thing to do is turn right or go straight until you can make a safe u-turn or additional right turn.

    The sort of last resort is to make sure it is safe and run the light. Please note that in most states this is still illegal.

    You could also try parking the wheel itself over the edge of the sensor cut, putting the kickstand down, stopping and restarting it, bouncing up and down in the seat, pushing the crosswalk button, leaving a neodymium magnet in the nose, flashing your high beams at the same frequency as the strobe on emergency vehicles, pulling forward enough that another vehicle will trigger the sensor, or correctly calibrating the sensor yourself (please note, these last options are almost entirely tongue-in-cheek).

  • len

    October 26, 2022 at 4:24 pm

    Wouldn’t the Elaphe In Wheel motors trigger?

    • Russell

      October 26, 2022 at 8:07 pm

      That’s kinda what I was thinking too. The permanent magnets in the wheel motors should cause enough disturbance to trigger the traffic light.

    • kerbe2705

      October 26, 2022 at 10:10 pm

      @Len Nowak Not to mention the hundreds of battery cells in their individual steel casings…

  • Pragmatic_to_a_Fault

    October 28, 2022 at 5:27 am

    I’ve been stuck at red lights on my 900lb Harley , ad me to the mix and now you have an 1100lb Harley dry weight another 50lbs in fuel and well. Still not enough weight or mass or good old American Steele to trip a red light after midnight, and when you work till 3am. It’s a problem.

    I’m not sure if Maryland has the sit for 2 minutes rule. I wouldn’t want to test a red light cameras version or the “law” in court.

    What actually trips the light ? Hell I sat in my 3700lb Volvo the other night in a turn lane for 3 cycles on the light and never got a green left turn arrow. I ended up making a right from the left lane and a u turn at the next traffic light to get home from work.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by  James Lee.
    • ROMAD

      October 28, 2022 at 7:33 am

      Patrick, besides the large automobile sensor loop, isn’t there a smaller centered loop near the front of the large loop where motorcyclists are supposed to place the front wheel? I saw those at lights in California (haven’t looked for them here in AZ).

    • glenn-zajic

      October 28, 2022 at 9:45 am

      It is my understanding that the loop sets up a magnetic field, which can be disrupted by metal objects. Some motorcyclists have found that almost laying the bike on its side can cause more disruption and trigger the light. I know some homeowners have used a wheelbarrow to keep their gates open by locating it in the gate safety loop. Unfortunately, brighter burglars were using their victims trash cans to open gates. We are hoping that the battery mass can trigger sensors, as putting the wheel motor over a sensor (unless it’s the back) may stick the vehicle pretty far out of its lane.

  • Pistonboy

    October 28, 2022 at 11:09 am

    Do we know the battery case is steel? In the efforts to reduce weight, could the battery case be made of aluminum?

    Regardless, there is an aluminum belly plate between the street sensor wiring and the battery case. Aluminum conducts heat well.

    There are always problems when pioneering a new idea.

  • OkieKev

    October 28, 2022 at 12:47 pm

    In my town, they have been phazing out the loops with this device. I don’t know if it is heat sensing or what, but it seems better than loops at detecting my motorcycle. Hopefully it detects Apterae as well.

  • Mike-Mars

    October 29, 2022 at 3:20 pm

    Surely the belly pan should be enough to trigger the sensors? Because it’s horizontal, it should give a larger signal than the typical motorbike.

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