Deal breaker that might keep you from buying?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Deal breaker that might keep you from buying?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Deal breaker that might keep you from buying?

  • Deal breaker that might keep you from buying?

    Posted by mark-steinback on February 27, 2022 at 2:10 pm

    As we get closer to seeing a finished Aptera product, we see things either added or taken away that may affect whether we will ultimately want the vehicle.

    Not having some form of blind spot/lane change warning because of the large pillars between the side and rear windows affecting side vision raises a safety red flag to me and might be a deal breaker. I have not seen any confirmation whether or not they will have this feature.

    Also, the talk of maybe not having side cameras (with or without mirrors) concerns me. The Aptera is a futuristic high tech vehicle and not having the cameras makes it much more mundane and possibly less safe.

    What, if any, are your possible deal breakers?

    • This discussion was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  bbelcamino.
    glenn-zajic replied 2 months ago 71 Members · 73 Replies
  • 73 Replies
  • Deal breaker that might keep you from buying?

    glenn-zajic updated 2 months ago 71 Members · 73 Replies
  • Jon_Arryn

    February 27, 2022 at 2:48 pm

    For me, a vinyl wrapped finish is a deal breaker. I live in the desert southwest where 3M does not warranty their vinyl wrap product for any amount of time. I question then how Aptera expects that finish to last ten years, but I understand that’s not location specific. From firsthand experience with 3M wraps, the product expectancy was about 3-4 years in the desert southwest.. That was with a vehicle that was primarily garaged. It’s not just direct sunlight, but that dry heat is not kind to such a finish. My ex-Pony was babied with hand washing and applying UV wrap protectant products. I can only imagine if I primarily charged the Aptera with solar, that wrap life expectancy would be even less than what i’ve experienced.

    Not deal breakers, but that new yoke in the render does not make me smile. I’m sure for some it complements the Aptera’s futuristic look, but I prefer a more practical and safer traditional wheel. Makes me sad there won’t be Android Auto/Apple CarPlay support, but I suppose I could make do with Bluetooth audio. Google Maps or Waze rocks though. Will definitely miss that capability.

    In the bonus category, being it’s licensed as a motorcycle in Arizona, I would be able to drive in the HOV Lanes at any time.

  • joshua-rosen

    February 27, 2022 at 2:49 pm

    As Curtis mentioned regulation is a potential show stopper for me. MA requires a Class M license for an autocycle. There is a bill in the MA legislature to fix this but it’s been moving at glacial speed.

    The deal breaker for me that the company is in control of is the 3.3KW charger. I’ve reserved a 60KWh version, hopefully they will put a proper charger into the 60KWh and 100KWh versions but if they don’t I’ll wait until they do. A 16 hour 10-90 charge time is absolutely unacceptable. I’m also very unhappy with the 50KW DC charging but I think I can live without this as long as I can do overnight charging. The range of the car is so great that I think all DC charging can be avoided as long as you can get a full charge overnight which you could do with 6.6KW but not with 3.3KW.

    The thing I’m disappointed in is the lack of Android Auto. I think rolling their own UI is a bad mistake when they could have started with a solid foundation if they had used Android Automotive. Failing to do that they should have supported AA and Car Play. I’m reserving judgement on this until I see the car and can evaluate the nav system that they’ve included.

  • 993cc

    February 27, 2022 at 3:39 pm

    I find myself having an “old man yells at cloud” moment about the steering yoke depicted in the Beta renders. As if the original proposal to borrow the quartic steering wheel from a 1973 Austin Allegro wasn’t bad enough, now they’ve decided to try to impress Elon Musk with a copycat yoke. It won’t work. He’s already expressed his disdain for “science-project weirdmobiles”.

    Unless someone can convince me of some essential advantage to a yoke, or tiller, or joystick, or whatever, it just seems to me to be the sort of “designer’s ego over function” which has no place on a vehicle whose mission is efficiency.

    I know I won’t want to have to countersteer on ice with a yoke, and since that’s not a rare occurrence for me, if they don’t at least offer the option of a round, or nearly so, steering wheel, I’m out. What’s worse, I fear it could antagonise other potential buyers.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, there’s a stratocumulus up there that needs to be told a thing or two.

  • gary-greenway

    February 27, 2022 at 5:54 pm

    I will not allow a camera to watch every move I make or a microphone to record every sound I utter. If that means no self driving mode, I’m OK with that.

  • john-malcom

    February 27, 2022 at 8:48 pm

    I can not think of a deal breaker for me. My interest in Aptera is engineered efficiency. The vehicle as currently constituted satisfies that need. Most of the deal breakers listed in this thread are feature or design based. The shape of the steering device, the capacity of the charger, the external finish, etc. Certainly only a personal opinion, but it seems like “missing the forest for a tree”. All require an adaption or getting use to something new. If we stopped doing that there would be no progress in the world and for me, a dull life. But, fortunately, in this country, to each his own.

    My great grandfather gave up the reins To control the horses for his buggy for a wheel, some pedals, and a stick that protrudes up from the floor. Aptera requires far less adaption for a much bigger payoff.

  • steven-g-bueche

    February 28, 2022 at 3:58 am

    I think the term Deal Breaker doesn’t apply to me.

    I think the term Adaptive Frustration does. Let me explain.

    Unless I designed a car to my every need, every car requires adaption. I’m 5’7″ and nothing seems to fit me except my 96 Cherokee. The model 3 is close because most things are adjustable and with the touch of the memory buttons all settings are brought to me from my wife’s 5′ 11″ frame.

    The only design of this car that may require adaptation for me as well would be the side window middle line of sight bar which makes me feel like I’ll be bobbing my head up and down to see past it. A safety concern for visual reasons.

    <font face=”inherit”>Most of the other concerns I read here are a non issue for me. I don’t need a rolling office, sound studio, media center or the latest tech to drive or </font>appreciate<font face=”inherit”> it. When I drive, I’m a driver. </font>

    <font face=”inherit”>John makes a great point for the blind spot indicators again, for </font>safety<font face=”inherit”> reasons. </font>

    <font face=”inherit”>I’d add to this Sun Visors. I’ve yet to see any in any snap shot. A reply of the Face Book page says they’re working on it but it seems a bit long in development for this to still be an issue. I would have thought the interior design guy would have been all over this on. And what’s the deal with the </font>Velcro<font face=”inherit”> flap glove box?</font>

    <font face=”inherit”>I live in the southern east part of the country and yes wraps don’t last long down here as well but at the first sign of </font>degradation<font face=”inherit”> I’ll heat gun, peel and paint the car. I’m using the paint protection film on the M3 as a guide for longevity for now. </font>

    <font face=”inherit”>I’d like to think at this stage the renderings would show the intended final design of most if not all items and styles and in a clear (er) rendering without the blurry images currently posted. Since they apparently don’t it almost seems pointless for these </font>discussions<font face=”inherit”>. At what point, being this close to production do you think this should happen?</font>

  • WilliamT

    February 28, 2022 at 7:51 am

    Ingress/egress. I can learn to love a yoke – I’ll do what what must be done to charge my vehicle – not a fan of wraps, but you take what you can get…. but if my old knees make me pay every time I get in and out – forget it. I can’t wait for the chance to somehow try one on for size.

  • KayleighVenne

    February 28, 2022 at 11:47 am

    Hi Mark! Thanks for this thread. The Aptera team will be keeping an eye on it because this feedback is very valuable!

    One clarification – We still plan to have the side cameras, but just may have to have additional reflective material on the sides in addition to them, per guidelines.

  • timothy-sherbakov

    February 28, 2022 at 2:38 pm

    The Yoke wheel.

    All I ask is that at the time of purchase, please make a no cost option to have a normal steering wheel

  • mark-steinback

    February 28, 2022 at 3:06 pm

    Interesting how so many people are objecting to the yoke steering!

    The only potential deal breakers to me would be safety related. Comfort (or lack thereof) could be, but I sat in one and it was fine. Performance could be, but with the low zero to sixty times and long range batteries these are non-issues.

    If I lived in a state that required a helmet, that would be a deal breaker.

  • john-larocque

    February 28, 2022 at 8:38 pm

    Safety is my only deal breaker (which I’m actually worried about).

    A few things which wouldn’t be great but on their own wouldn’t keep me from buying:

    • no federal EV tax credit (U.S.), or significant pricing increases
    • further delivery delays
    • not meeting my expectations on right to repair

    I’m not worried about minor changes to the interior design/ergonomics.

  • llewellyn-evans

    February 28, 2022 at 9:17 pm

    I would definitely not buy one if the sun stopped shining.

    Effectively when the car is available I will get one because I see the elegance of it.

    My concerns are Yoke, side window bar blind spot, wrap longevity …. but these are not show stoppers and are concerns based on limited information.

  • Knix

    March 1, 2022 at 12:38 am

    There are three things that could stop me from getting an Aptera. My bank, EU legislation and EU localization.

    There’s no way I can save up enough money to buy one outright in time, so I need to be able to show the bank that it’s good value for the money so I can borrow the money needed.

    I wont buy it unless I can legally drive it in the EU.

    I won’t buy an Aptera that hasn’t been adapted to EU charging standards and it needs to be able to show EU units (km/h and km).

  • steven-bryant

    March 1, 2022 at 9:43 am


  • paul-kirchner

    March 1, 2022 at 4:09 pm

    Thought I should put in my vote to provide offset for the yoke talk. If it works well, I don’t have a problem with it and would give a vote of “Yes”. There, that should offset one “no” vote.

    • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  Paul Kirchner. Reason: Misspelled
  • byron-dieckman

    March 1, 2022 at 4:29 pm

    I believe I would have to forego the dream if the entry and exit height was too low for me. I had to crawl out of my BMW Z-4 a few times….yes, sober, but now in my late 70’s. and the Z is history. Then again, my daughter-in-law in sunny Waco, Texas might be interested in a beautiful, efficient commuter with maxed out solar panels.

  • Jim-Pace

    March 1, 2022 at 10:00 pm

    Not quite deal breakers, but for me, very important features:

    – trailer hitch

    – 110v outlet to power camping and modest V2H demands in times of power outages. Additional 12v outlet would be nice but less important.

    – In-window defrost wires front and rear. Also in-seat heaters and steering wheel heat.

    Real deal breakers:

    – If I can’t drive the car safely in winter.

    – Snow/ice management especially around wheel wells. Engineers, please figure out how Saab 96s did it way back when. A similar design problem solved.

    – Along the same line, windows and cameras must have an automatic defrost and cleaning method. Stoping every mile to wipe off cameras will keep me from a purchase.

    – Touch screens that distract from driving, or take more than a moment to navigate.

    – Simple and effective emergency exit in case of roll overs or submergence in bodies of water. Pray for me, I drive Idaho highway 55. Drivers killed every year in the NF Payette canyon. I help recover the bodies.

  • fanfare-100

    March 2, 2022 at 9:51 pm

    I actually like the yoke. A deal-breaker for me may either be:
    A) Further delay in delivery
    B) Increase in price for existing reservation-holders, ala Rivian.

    Aside from that, I can’t think of any other.

  • jacob-bunce

    March 4, 2022 at 11:58 pm

    Deal breakers would be a forced software subscription model, or forced internet connectivity (ie factory cellular modem like a Tesla). My car is not a PC. I bring my own compute via personal devices.

  • konijntje

    March 5, 2022 at 4:28 am

    Either one of two would break the deal for me:
    1. Not able to make it a legal vehicle for public roads in Germany/Europe.
    2. Not being close to the claimed spec’s.

    Or of course if they would not keeping themselfs to the price we reservated our Aptera’s for. Which would be hurtful for their reputation, investors and customers.

  • Scott

    March 5, 2022 at 7:31 am

    I generally love the Aptera though feel the current design has two significant design flaws: vinyl wraps (they might change on this; fingers crossed) and partially blocked lateral field of view with the slot window eye level side window frames. These concern me as a future owner and as an investor. These kinds of decisions will likely reduce interest beyond us less critical early adopters and yet they are not fundamental to the vehicle’s main benefits and new approaches. These two items only make things worse in comparison to most other vehicles, not better.

    I am hopeful the company makes an appreciated update to offering paint, though the unfortunate mid window frames appear to be locked in. If the current Aptera survives for the long term and does not just become an early model, lower volume footnote entry in the company’s product line (like the first Tesla roadster), I anticipate that future Apteras may eventually get rid of the current unfortunate side window design due to real world user feedback on this particular design decision.

    Aside from those two significant items, the yoke steering wheel and lack of a minimum set of physical controls (for eyes-up driving safety) are undesirable though not deal breakers.

  • BUG

    March 6, 2022 at 12:26 pm

    Seating Height for My Wife – Fused Vertebrae, and Arthritic. unladen Height must be over 16 inches, preferably 18 inches. Ingress/Egress Must allow Her to Pass.

    Any reduction of the already Difficult 500 Pound Limit. I have 90 Pounds to Lose, so long as She Doesn’t put on any more.

  • leif-holtvoeth

    March 6, 2022 at 12:33 pm

    All i want from a vehicle right now is maximum efficiency and being comfortable and save in every weather condition in Europe, from the deep south to the arctic circle.

    So far the Aptera seems to me the by far most attractive option, if it weren’t for some possible dealbrakers.


    Dealbraker 1: If its not road legal in Germany.

    Dealbraker 2: If it keeps being that wide as it is now, because i would have no option of parking it safely anywhere near my home. Just driving around in my area would be really stressfull in a vehicle that wide. My current area is Cologne, one of the biggest cities in Germany but with lots of narrow roads once you are off the main roads and lots of heavy traffic.

    Dealbraker 3: If that horizontal bar in the side window blocks my view.

    Dealbraker 4: If its a data collection machine without me having 100% control over the collected data.

    Dealbraker 5: No easy access to adjust windscreen wiper speed/interval. There won’t be a single automated system on this planet to ever match my need of wiping the windscreen. Except its hooked directly into my brain, like in the matrix or so. Same goes for other so called smart or intelligent functions, which only trigger my desire to kill anyone responsible for it. Sadly the most important design rule for EVERYTHING seems to be forgotten long ago: KISS – keep it simple, stupid.

  • eric-alkema

    March 6, 2022 at 10:23 pm

    I would want to get the rear deck solar panels for the bonus charging and to keep the brutal California sun out of the greenhouse that is the inside of a car. But I would not buy if I did not feel like I could see what was going on around me. The rear view camera seems like a perfect substitute for a mirror (assuming that it didn’t get blinded by bright lights or gunk) but it is the side cameras that have me worried. I am imagining driving on a three lane highway, overtaking a truck in the slow lane and needing to know where the faster car in the next lane is and what the car next to me in the left lane is up to and is the car behind him about to do something silly. As it is now, I can’t keep an eye on everyone at once, but I can scan rear, side, side mirror, over the shoulder quickly and smoothly and with depth perception. Also peripheral vision lets me see out the side and in the side mirror at once (or over the shoulder without losing out the side, etc). With side cameras with unknown coverage and uncertain monitor placement I worry that I will lose my situational awareness. It is what has kept me from making a reservation.

  • IA-1

    March 9, 2022 at 2:00 pm

    I know that most of the people that have Aptera reservations would accept these, but not me:

    1. Wrap – wrapping your car should be only an aftermarket option. If Aptera offers a wrap, it better come with a 10 year warranty and a replacement cost of less than $1000 after the warranty expires.

    2. Yoke – a yoke steering wheel doesn’t work good for a road vehicle, only for some race vehicles. There is absolutely no benefit having a yoke in a road vehicle, only drawbacks.

    3. Yoke (Tesla style) – a steering wheel that has the turn signals, horn, wiper controls etc. as buttons on the wheel.

    4. Side rear-view cameras – since we will have minimal size side view mirrors (probably 2″x 5″) and 2 side cameras, we will need 2 dedicated screens for each side camera that will have a continuous video feed, just like the original design. The latest rendering doesn’t show the 2 dedicated side view camera screens with constant feedback, which is not acceptable.

    5. Price increase – a price increase of 5% – 7% would be acceptable, anything more would be questionable.

    These are only the “hard” deal breakers, there are a lot of small ones that would sway my final decision.

    I want an Aptera, but not at any cost. I am prepared to wait another 5-6 years if necessary, or not buy one at all.

    Disclaimer: I am an Aptera investor with an investment of more than $10,000 (since I wanted the 5% discount and I believe that it’s a good investment) and I really want for Aptera to succeed for so many reasons.

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