Aptera › Community › Aptera Discussions › Deal breaker that might keep you from buying?
Deal breaker that might keep you from buying?Mr-Wonderful replied 1 month, 1 week ago 92 Members · 103 Replies
Deal breaker that might keep you from buying?Mr-Wonderful updated 1 month, 1 week ago 92 Members · 103 Replies
eric-alkemaMemberMarch 6, 2022 at 10:23 pm
I would want to get the rear deck solar panels for the bonus charging and to keep the brutal California sun out of the greenhouse that is the inside of a car. But I would not buy if I did not feel like I could see what was going on around me. The rear view camera seems like a perfect substitute for a mirror (assuming that it didn’t get blinded by bright lights or gunk) but it is the side cameras that have me worried. I am imagining driving on a three lane highway, overtaking a truck in the slow lane and needing to know where the faster car in the next lane is and what the car next to me in the left lane is up to and is the car behind him about to do something silly. As it is now, I can’t keep an eye on everyone at once, but I can scan rear, side, side mirror, over the shoulder quickly and smoothly and with depth perception. Also peripheral vision lets me see out the side and in the side mirror at once (or over the shoulder without losing out the side, etc). With side cameras with unknown coverage and uncertain monitor placement I worry that I will lose my situational awareness. It is what has kept me from making a reservation.
IA-1MemberMarch 9, 2022 at 2:00 pm
I know that most of the people that have Aptera reservations would accept these, but not me:
1. Wrap – wrapping your car should be only an aftermarket option. If Aptera offers a wrap, it better come with a 10 year warranty and a replacement cost of less than $1000 after the warranty expires.
2. Yoke – a yoke steering wheel doesn’t work good for a road vehicle, only for some race vehicles. There is absolutely no benefit having a yoke in a road vehicle, only drawbacks.
3. Yoke (Tesla style) – a steering wheel that has the turn signals, horn, wiper controls etc. as buttons on the wheel.
4. Side rear-view cameras – since we will have minimal size side view mirrors (probably 2″x 5″) and 2 side cameras, we will need 2 dedicated screens for each side camera that will have a continuous video feed, just like the original design. The latest rendering doesn’t show the 2 dedicated side view camera screens with constant feedback, which is not acceptable.
5. Price increase – a price increase of 5% – 7% would be acceptable, anything more would be questionable.
These are only the “hard” deal breakers, there are a lot of small ones that would sway my final decision.
I want an Aptera, but not at any cost. I am prepared to wait another 5-6 years if necessary, or not buy one at all.
Disclaimer: I am an Aptera investor with an investment of more than $10,000 (since I wanted the 5% discount and I believe that it’s a good investment) and I really want for Aptera to succeed for so many reasons.
jacob-armstrongMemberMarch 9, 2022 at 6:36 pm
There isn’t any single deal breaker for me, but there are a number of things which make me wonder whether or not I really want this vehicle. I really WANT to want an Aptera, as there’s nothing else in development with such a heavy focus on both efficiency and practicality. However, I feel that some specific features substantially limit the practicality of the vehicle:
-VINYL WRAP: 3M doesn’t make a 10-year vinyl wrap. If the vehicle comes with a 10-year warranty on the vinyl wrap and if Aptera pays to have it rewrapped every few years, it would be annoying but tolerable. If there’s no warranty, the vinyl wrap would become a bit more difficult to accept.
-WIDE WHEELBASE: I feel uncomfortable driving large vehicles. As far as I’m concerned, less space between vehicles means a higher chance of collision. If Aptera made a smaller, less roomy, slightly less efficient model for the European market, I’d prefer that over the current design (even though I’m based in the US).
-YOKE STEERING: For me, this is another matter of safety. If I’m turning the wheel (or yoke) to maneuver through a tight space, I don’t want to cause a collision because my hand slipped or grabbed the empty air above the yoke. It shouldn’t ever happen, not even once. Steering safety shouldn’t be sacrificed in order to accommodate gadgets behind the wheel.
-VIEWSCREEN CHAOS: Based on the beta render, I’d be looking up+right to see backwards, down+right to see behind the rear bumper, and down to see left/right. If I’m trying to maneuver out of a tight parking spot while dealing with cross-traffic and pedestrians, there’s no way that I’ll be able to look in so many different unexpected directions all at once. I’m concerned that I’ll eventually hit something/someone.
-MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION FEE: This is less of a practical issue and more of an annoyance. I’m not sure whether or not they’re planning to include any recurring fees, but I’d be fairly miffed if the vehicle came with substantial features locked behind a subscription fee.
tim-deanMemberMarch 10, 2022 at 7:16 am
(1) I don’t like being recorded so I want to at least be able to disable any driver facing camera.
(2) Yoke…. Yuck! (Still, not a deal breaker.)
(3). It needs to drive level at full weight capacity.
(4) it needs powerful headlights & reverse lights.
(5). It would be wonderful it the passenger seat could be easily removed & reinstalled to maximize cargo flexibility.
Trying hard to think of anything else… good defoggers tied to the ac to remove internal humidity & fogging. Nothing worse than internally fogged up windows. 😠
bruce-jankowitzMemberMarch 10, 2022 at 11:54 am
I don’t care much about steering wheels, will adapt, and paint approach is not critical to me. That said there are five items I can think of:
1. Ingres/Egress(I hate hitting my head)
2. Seat comfort(a vehicle that provides this range must allow staying in the seat for said range)
3. Rear view monitors/cameras must remain
4. Inability to defog windscreen completely
5. Inability to climb large hills (thermal limitations on discharge)
RussellMemberMarch 10, 2022 at 7:35 pm
If Siri, Alexa or Google is built in, I’m out.
TamMemberMarch 11, 2022 at 7:36 am
I have zero interest in monthly subscriptions/integrated data plans, or live data collection on the vehicle.
One of the things that attracted me in the first place was the “right to repair” angle, with diagrams available to the owner. I don’t want proprietary anything, or monthly fees.
+1 also on competent windscreen (critical) and windows (very important) defrosting. I had a car that had weak defrost, it was very unsafe as the weather turned.
steven-g-buecheMemberMarch 13, 2022 at 6:36 am
A built in kill switch. I’d find a way to locate and remove it if I can. I saw something about kill switches being put on all cars after 2025 (?) I am not a fan of anything Big Brother associated with my personal belongings. To me my car fits into the fourth amendment rule of law. Maybe that’s why I’m hanging on to the 96 Cherokee. 😜
jacob-schmuggeMemberMarch 13, 2022 at 6:21 pm
I cannot forsee any deal-breaker on design. They completely sold me on the efficiency first principle, so I’m likely to roll with any changes assuming they thought it through.
Cost increase could make me a little nervous, and on that I’d rather them first remove any luxury features, and try to stick to pre-order specs. I’m a barbones type of car guy, spent my young adult life working on air-cooled VWs, so I prefer simple and indifferent to comfort.
The biggest deal-breaker would be management changes. Basically the same major factor why they liquidated the first try. I get nervous with IPO talk, even though more money means I get my Aptera faster, but with more money means more obligation to that money, and I wouldn’t want Steve and Chris to be either replaced by a board, or their vision and determination diluted.
Lastly, if I don’t get my pre-order by the end of 2023 or at least know my ~10k place in line is moving close, I might pull-out. I’ve been wanting to go EV for about a year. My two vehicles are in still great condition, so no rush yet, but I prefer to stop depending on and wasting money on fossil fuels sooner than later.
ken-kobayashiMemberMarch 13, 2022 at 9:42 pm
Sorry to beat a dead horse, but I’m most likely canceling the order because of the excessive width. I have measured our driveway, and my wife’s truck + Aptera will only leave a couple of inches of margin, which isn’t enough to deal with on a daily basis. I can’t just park behind or in front of the truck, since there is no predictable pattern on which vehicle needs to leave first.
Jeff-D.MemberMarch 15, 2022 at 5:48 pm
Two deal breakers for me would be if I don’t get at least around 30 miles of range from solar. Of course, I chose the full solar option; and yes, I do live in a sunny area. The idea of not having to or rarely charging my vehicle is what really got me on board, so if that turns out to not come true for me, I may have to rethink my next vehicle choice.
The other being if they raise their prices too much due to inflation. They could end up keeping the same prices but lowering the range as I’ve seen someone else mention here, like 400 mile to 300 mile.
This isn’t really a deal breaker for me, but more of a suggestion to Aptera. I would very much prefer the rear view camera to be placed higher up. Where it is now appears to be at waist level. It would be nice to be able to see more than the front of the vehicle behind me, as I’m used to in my current car. I guess I assumed the camera would be built in above the rear window, (or rear solar if you’re getting that option) allowing for a normal view of behind.
jose-osorioMemberMarch 16, 2022 at 3:27 pm
The fact that an Aptera may never have to be fueled from a source other than sunlight is the only reason i would need to buy an Aptera. Seems like most people don’t understand that a solar vehicle with a desirable range and efficiency requires so much in terms of battery technology, aerodynamics, high strength/low weight materials and photovoltaic development to be successful. so much so that a vehicle wrap, regulation style mirrors and other other little “deal breakers” are probably frustrating to all the engineers trying to provide a product that is appealing and doing the most to alleviate climate change. Pretty sure there are plenty of other companies that will cater to the mainstream consumer.
MrSarcasmMemberMarch 20, 2022 at 7:53 pm
Time, and there is 2 aspects to this.
1) As my 2010 Toyota Yaris keeps getting older the need for a new vehicle increases. If Aptera keeps getting pushed back I will need a car when this one stops.
2) The longer Aptera takes the more time other car companies have to provide similar vehicles. A traditional 4 seater 400+ mile range starting at $25,000 will happen at some point as the technology and infrastructure improves.
It’s been good to read everyone’s opinion on this subject with different views. Not deal breakers but concerns I have and would like to share my opinion are;
1) Rear wheel placement and snow and gravel road stability. I understand the efficiency and constructability of going with this design but until I am able to drive it or see videos of it in bad weather conditions, the AWD is a must for easing my concern in this.
2) The 23′ turning radius. 22′-25′ is a standard full size pickup truck and some get better than that. It’s go to know it’s not our side the realm of typical vehicles it is just larger than the mid size sedan (15′-19′). My Yaris can turn around in a standard 32′ wide residential street with out needing to back up which is really nice. I see plenty of full size pickups in downtown parking ramps and street parking so it doable but will take a bit more skill and for thought. Could this be reduced by making the front wheels lean into the turn when steering? This would add more moving parts and more to go wrong if you hit a curb. Plus the wheel pans may interfere with the body reducing the angle they can be turned, so not sure if this would be a good long term idea.
3) The 88″ width. Most of that has to be the front tier width with the rest of the vehicle being closer to the 72″ but that makes it harder for in city parking and cookie cutter garage and driveway parking. Similar issues mentioned in item 2.
4) The wrap, at first I want to concerned until I looked into the durability. I think Aptera needs to be up front with their decision in this matter. I understand it is cheaper and easier and going this route initially makes sense to got their production going. Long term I think they need to end up painting for product quality. If I get an Aptera I’m planning on having it paint when the wrap starts to fail, part of the maintenance cost of ownership but should just be a one time deal.
5) Rear view camera if going all out with solar. Now days the tiny rear window in a lot of vehicle makes the rear view mirror next to pointless. In some vehicles the mirror can switch between mirror and rear camera, the camera view is so much better most people I talk to leave it in the camera mode. That said I drove a snowplow dump truck for a couple years, you don’t need the rear view mirror/camera. That just increases the need for side mirrors and overall awareness while driving. And bring extra careful when backing up, back in to parking stalls. As mentioned from others a rear camera is needed for regulations.
6) The yoke, I’m surprised at how many comments this had. It will definitely be a change and I don’t see how it’s better than a wheel but don’t see it as unsafe or any less practical. Driving a manual I do use the one handed 12 o’clock positions a lot but EVs don’t have a stick shift and when I drive high speed freeway 3 and 9 are used. For city streets driving I use the 6 o’clock for 90 degree turns.
7) No door handles, spring assisted door opening systems wear out and fail and need to be replaced. Just hope this doesn’t hurt the quality of the Aptera.
All that said, I do trust Chris, Steve and the Aptera team to build a vehicle to their vision and not be blind sided by corporate greed and regulatory bureaucracy. I hope that this vehicle stays their passion and don’t let others option take away from there enthusiasm and drive in their dreams and drive to achieve the end goal of the Aptera.
CrashMemberMarch 20, 2022 at 10:38 pm
Bad suspension, bad seats or only plastic wrap are breakers.
dean-mcmanisMemberMarch 20, 2022 at 11:56 pm
If the Aptera is built as it has been proposed (or close) I will buy mine. I don’t anticipate any changes to the announced design that would get in the way of all of the great features and capabilities that the Aptera will be providing. I don’t have a problem with the yoke, but I do think that Aptera (and Tesla) should definitely offer a round steering wheel option. Similarly, I am actually looking forward to having a custom color wrap, but I hope that Aptera offers paint or embedded color underneath. So no obvious deal breakers for me.
GadgetMemberMarch 22, 2022 at 6:54 pm
Well, much ado about the newly shown Yoke steering wheel. My take is that’s a full blown NO !
We think we see what’s happening with the side view monitors disappearing, and the second display in front of the driver for as yet to be totally defined reasoning. However… To use a Yoke to look cool while allowing vision of the new screen in front of the driver is engineering gone to far.
Yokes are on aircraft for specific reasons, and Steering Wheels are on cars for specific reasons. Aircraft Yoke travel is 180 degrees, for aileron deflection, one up and one down, steering wheels for cars about 2 1/2 turns lock to lock, so there is sufficient travel of the wheel as to not be so sensitive at highway speeds as the slightest turn will send one careening off the road or into other traffic. Take that away, and deaths will happen. Sure people CAN get used to things, but in an emergency, muscle memory kicks in and problems happen.
I’m all for the display in front of the driver, 100 %. And the turn signal activated side view cameras that could be on that display are fantastic, how do I know? My Hyundai has them! Makes lane changes, and tight spots effortless with great visibility, without cranking your neck around opposite your direction of travel.
So put the screen there, use it for Speed, warnings, and side view cameras, just either raise it up, make it a see through HUD, or whatever it takes, but No Yoke !
paul-roweMemberMarch 25, 2022 at 3:32 pm
While I can’t say I’m a fan of some of the changes that are being shown in the new Beta renderings, I can say those changes are not deal breakers. What would keep me from continuing to want the Aptera would be seat and driving comfort. After two spinal fusions, one at each end, I don’t enjoy getting in and out of short cars. A comfortable and adjustable seat is a must, as is the ability to sit up while driving. I cannot do the lay-down sports car thing anymore.
bart-cunninghamMemberMarch 27, 2022 at 4:32 am
Maybe not a deal breaker but did I read somewhere there is not going to be support for Android Auto? Really??? That will be hard to live without and not sure how I could work around that issue at this point.
Second issue is the mirrors but still probably not a deal breaker. I currently drive a 2020 Hyundai Sonata with the mirrors displayed over the gauges when the turn signals are activated. This has been my only car for over two years and I am still not really used to this feature although I do still have the physical mirrors which I do usually use. If I was forced to use the virtual displays then maybe I would get used to the idea. I have the full solar option reserved and if what I read somewhere is true about the display for the center rearview mirror being in the same place as the physical mirror would be then I am fine with that.
I usually drive with a 4 and 8 position on the steering wheel so I think I could adapt to the yoke without issue as long as the wheel had a good turning ratio. I think somewhere I also read that during long drives the driving assist helps with hand fatigue which is exactly what I have found to be true with my Sonata.
greg-vickeryMemberMarch 28, 2022 at 12:30 pm
No level 2 driving capability, solar charging, or 600 mile range would make me wait until they are available.
eric-habeggerMemberMarch 29, 2022 at 2:52 pm
A potential deal breaker for me is if there are battery cooling issues with the passive skin cooling system they are implementing. My understanding is that there is minimal cooling if there is no air movement over the car. A previous example of something similar is the Nissan Leaf. It has no liquid cooling of the batteries, just air. Those cars are notorious for degradation of the batteries because of overheating. This usually occurs during rapid charging but can also occur due to zealous acceleration for long periods in high ambient temperature conditions.
Frankly, I’m concerned about this and will consider canceling my order unless I’m reassured with empirical evidence that this won’t be a problem.
nolan-parsonsMemberApril 5, 2022 at 5:38 pm
Maybe the width. The biggest thing I’ve driven up to this point is a Lincoln Towncar that was 10 inches narrower and it was a pain to park and navigate car lots in. I’m sure I can get used to it in time but if a narrower version or configuration comes along you can go ahead and sign me up.
ken-mcclowMemberApril 6, 2022 at 9:31 pm
A yoke only steering device is a hard pass. If a yoke/wheel are no cost options, fine. I will take the wheel. I have never had a car where I couldn’t adjust the wheel or seat to see the gauges. If that is an issue then move the instrument panel, or make that info a heads up display and put everything else on the center screen. The only relevant things on my Tesla instrument screen are the speed I am going and navigation repeated from the center screen. Everything else is fluff. I like seeing my energy use, but it’s not important.
SamMemberJuly 28, 2022 at 7:27 am
A price increase would be a deal breaker for me.
Big_redMemberJuly 28, 2022 at 3:05 pm
At this point the only real deal breaker would be subscriptions. Aptera doesn’t want to supports Android Auto? That’s fine but if I’m forced to pay a subscription for Aptera’s navigation software than I would not get the vehicle. Along with that any subscription, I know a car company recently made there heated seats a subscription service and I hate that idea.
A couple things that are almost a deal breaker for me but I’m willing to give it a try are the giant touch screen infotainment center and climate controls with no physic buttons, the Yoke and finally the tiny side mirrors.
I personally love physical buttons, I think there much safer in a car and easier to use. As for the yoke I just don’t consider it safe considering it makes turning the “wheel” past 90 degrees harder ontop of the fact I personally think it just looks terrible. I understand that no side mirrors or tiny side mirrors make the vehicle more aerodynamic but I personally would take slightly less efficiency for real side mirrors.
david-marlowMemberJuly 28, 2022 at 3:08 pm
For me it would take some severe things to happen, like a ten year production delay like some reservation holders have already experienced, or a more than 200% price increase as that would decrease the economic benefit.