Why I have not invested yet.

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Why I have not invested yet.

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Why I have not invested yet.

  • Why I have not invested yet.

    Posted by larry-kaiser on March 16, 2023 at 2:32 pm

    I have the money and fully intend to buy an Aptera but I have not invested to get Launch Edition.

    I do not want or need the 3rd motor. I will have a cybertruck and a Subaru with all wheel drive and if it is snowy or muddy the Aptera will stay home. I don’t want the hit on efficency and I don’t want to spend the additional $2500.

    I can’t get a straight answer WRT a 120V outlet. I think that Aptera should loosen up a little and allow some flexability in the launch edition. Wire it for the 3rd motor but just don’t install it. That can’t take any time or effort over installing the motor. Make the 120V 1500 watt outlet standard from the start.

    I fully understand the idea of a simple single version of the Aptera to start production. My simple changes to that model would sell a lot of Apteras over the long run. It is not too late to change!

    gregory-annett replied 3 months, 2 weeks ago 14 Members · 23 Replies
  • 23 Replies
  • Why I have not invested yet.

    gregory-annett updated 3 months, 2 weeks ago 14 Members · 23 Replies
  • anthony-chan

    March 20, 2023 at 7:38 pm

    I also am reluctant to invest in the accelerator as the launch model isn’t my preferred configuration – I don’t need AWD, and the 250 mile would be fine enough for me.

    As a suggestion, perhaps Aptera could extend the program for those who want other configurations. Maybe make the first, say 500 vehicles, of each of the 200, 600, and 1000 mile ranges have their own serial number that would start after the launch edition ones – so serial numbers 2001 to 2500 be the first of the 250-mile range models produced (or, maybe limit the 400-mile to say first 1000 accelerators, and split the rest with the other mile versions). This way those who want other configurations can also have the incentive to invest in the accelerator program.

    I would say for the outlet, I agree a built-in outlet would be more convenient, though you could probably buy a 1500W DC to AC inverter (they go for about $200) and connect that to the 12V battery – the main battery would charge the smaller 12V when it gets low. Though I tested this on my e-Golf, not sure about other EVs. What would really be sweet is if there were vehicle to load, that way it could really power your house or larger loads.

  • william-hester

    March 21, 2023 at 8:12 am

    I’m saving money and have nearly enough set aside to join the Accelerator program, but the biggest reason I’m hesitant is related to final vehicle pricing. I’d hate to invest $10,500 and then not be able to follow through on the purchase because the vehicle price increases drastically once production starts due to *insert reason(s) here* (supply chain issues, design changes, inflation, etc). I can handle the investment cost plus the price tag currently listed on the website, but I don’t think anyone seriously expects that price to remain the same once the company updates it. If I had a better idea of the FINAL price, I’d be much better able to determine whether or not I should invest.

    • christopher-barrett

      April 10, 2023 at 9:44 am

      Believe a price of $33,500 is the Launch Edition, so far as I understand.

      • william-hester

        April 10, 2023 at 1:17 pm

        The prices currently listed on the website haven’t changed since they were originally posted several years ago (I don’t know exactly when, but I’m pretty sure it was pre-pandemic). Therefore, those prices don’t reflect the subsequent effects of inflation, supply chain issues, or any of the numerous design changes that have occurred in the intervening years. At this point, I don’t think anyone seriously expects those prices to remain the same once production begins and Apterae start rolling off the assembly line; we simply haven’t seen them updated yet. This final price uncertainty is one of the reasons that I’m reluctant to join the Accelerator program.

        • OZ.

          April 10, 2023 at 3:05 pm

          The original prices, yes were listed as of 12/4/20 (And a bit earlier in some email announcements.) so the pandemic was in full swing, The LE prices were announced only a few months ago, when the LE edition was announced.

          • william-hester

            April 10, 2023 at 7:45 pm

            Ah, ok. For some reason I was thinking it was 2019. Regardless, I’m pretty sure the pricing didn’t change when the Launch Edition was announced, it’s simply the original price of the 400 mile variant with the full solar package added on. Or am I wrong about that, also?

          • Biker

            April 11, 2023 at 5:24 am

            The “upgraded” audio option became a no cost option for the LE (and all other) configuration but otherwise no price changes.

  • larry-kaiser

    April 7, 2023 at 9:07 am

    It appears that lithium prices have gone down quite a bit and probably will go down more in the next year or so. What should Aptera do with the money they save on production. They have made many changes to Aptera since I reserved. Most of them came with the claim that among the benefits would be a lower cost of production. Steel and aluminium prices are nearly back to pre inflation levels as well. What do you folks think?

    1. Costs have gone up so much in other areas that Aptera will do very well to keep the price as it was at launch.

    2. They will have the ability to lower their price somewhat.

    3. They can keep the price the same but add some of the features that have been promised in the past. I am speaking about the 120V 1500W outlet.

  • david-marlow

    April 8, 2023 at 6:00 pm

    While the accelator program is an inticement for me, I can understand why it is not for everyone.

    However that dosen’t take away from the fact that Aptera is a good investment. Yes others will say that any start up is very risky investment, But we know that Aptera is not just any start up, Steve and Chris have a lot of good experience and just surviving 3 years as a start up and still have a viable plan is a testment to Aptera being a good risk. What others see a great risk, gives it the potential of having great rewards. Yes, we must all ballence the risk in our investments, for me the rest of my investments are very conservitive, so I have room to take some risk.

  • christopher-barrett

    April 10, 2023 at 10:17 am

    I am fortunate enough to be in the position to invest, and now am on the leader board with about 900 others. I have never in my entire life seen something as compelling as the Aptera! I am 100% convinced it is what is needed in the world we live in. Sensible, practical, extremely well designed to get the most out of the device as possible. Sandy Monro said something along the lines of they are creating an entire new industry. As a young man, I watched VW Beetles become the most popular car on the roadways. Those Beetles have all rusted apart, that will not happen with carbon fiber. Possibly the next wave of a vehicle everywhere, is Aptera. 41,000+ inline, even if some of them fall offline, once the product is seen in the wild, and folks ask questions, and Road and Track along with Consumer Reports, and Wards, and Motor Trend writes them up, the crash test behind them, a MPGe rating from the EPA that will blow others off the charts, making it a Prius killer. I know we all know these things, but many do not have a clue about Aptera, we need to let them know. If you can invest and have the stomach for a start-up this is the best-looking unicorn I can remember! Talk it up as the venture capital guy are on vacation for the recession. We have the opportunity to beat the venture capitalists at their own game. Much less risky than two years ago, still very high risk, which usually works out to high reward when it does pay off. How long after the production begins will it take for an IPO? Market conditions will determine that, but longer term it just plain old makes so much sense. Delays are just that, and no one likes it, but is seems to be making the striving for excellence even more likely to be accomplished. Wishing all out there to talk it up, look for other believers, and show them why you believe.

  • austin-aptera-lieber

    May 12, 2023 at 9:17 am

    I have three points of hesitation to becoming an investor.

    1. At their very core, every electric car is a computer with motors and wheels. For people buying electric cars, why would they put money towards a newly built platform when it’s likely to have bugs and a smaller group of engineers to fix them? Few companies, even outside of the car market, can compete with the software giant that is Tesla. And sadly, since Tesla has demonstrated the ability for vehicular computers to employ and adapt to various self driving conditions, there is strong reason for consumers to wait to afford those technologies from a Tesla.

    2. Scalability is every new company’s Achilles heal. If not addressed in a rapidly dynamic way, scaling too fast or too slow will lead to fear in buyer and investor sentiment. By the time Aptera could hypothetically begin scaling for new production facilities, most supply chain issues stemming from covid/war in ukraine/indopacific tensions will likely have resolved in one form or another. However, there are two supply chains that will inevitably hinder Aptera’s growth:

    2.a. Battery’s – the world’s largest battery manufacture and research company is… Tesla.

    2.a.i. In the scenario where Aptera cannot source enough lithium for its battery production, they will likely be forced to partner with a company (like tesla) that already has scaled their battery production infrastructure. Though not a huge disincentive, it begs the question of how long Aptera can maintain profitable partnerships with those companies.

    2.a.ii. In the scenario where Aptera decides to pursue its own battery manufacturing pipeline, sourcing lithium (though addressed in a previous message) will be challenging. There is enough. The price is coming down. But the technologies necessary to keep the current lithium production rates up have not fully matured. It will be 5-10 years before we see things like lithium recovery from desalination reject brine mature to a cost effective scale. Even still, Aptera will struggle to access these lithium production markets and need to resort to mined lithium instead. In that regard, the available lithium deposits, rich enough for economical mining, are shrinking in number.

    2.b. Solar cells on a car are a big attractor for buyers and investors alike; but, unlike batteries, when they degrade over their 15-25 year life, solar cells cannot be “regenerated” to their former youth. Moreover, the way these solar cells have been integrated into this car suggest that replacing them could be… expensive. They’re not affixed to the surfaces on the car, they are integrated into them. Any damage, unless wired to mitigate this risk, could render full sets of solar cells inoperable. Even if just one solar cells is affected, the cost to repair will necessarily mean replacing that full body panel. Based on the number of Tesla owners dissatisfied with the cost and length of time to repair their vehicles, I see no reason to suspect Aptera repairs will be any better.

    3. Unlike Trevor Milton and Nikola, I do not believe that Aptera’s founders are attempting to deceive buys and investors. You simply cannot argue with the efficiency gains from reducing a vehicles drag coefficient. But memory of Nikola’s down fall burns brightly in the distance for many prospective EV/PHEV investors. Aptera needs to substantiate its claims of driving range, charge speed, and solar energy usage, at a minimum to garner larger support at the $10.50/share price point. If it does not, short selling research firms like Hindenburg will push potential major partnerships away.

    Are these three points feasibly surmountable for Aptera? If so, I am sold.

    I have always loved driving cars, especially manuals, but it seems that fun behind the steering wheel can’t be had without growing your carbon footprint. I have always said, EVs aren’t worth investing in until there are cars with 500-1000 mile ranges that can charge in under 10 minutes. Aptera’s design inspires huge confidence in me that such ranges can be achieved without substantially new battery technology. Hell I’d wait 30 minutes to charge for a 1000miles of range. But these are reasons I discourage people from buying an EV right now. It just doesn’t make economical or practical sense for the vast majority of people to have a dedicated vehicle that can’t drive across a full State for that 1-2x per year 350+ mile road trip. If Aptera substantiate its range claims and maintain base prices below $40k post-launch, then I’d never recommend another vehicle for environmental purposes.

    • william-hester

      May 12, 2023 at 10:38 am

      You raise some good points, and I won’t argue against them. Rather, I’ll simply throw my 2 cents in.

      1. Tesla makes great automobiles from what I’ve seen and heard (I’ve never owned or driven one), so I’d never try to convince someone NOT to purchase one. But Aptera checks some boxes that Tesla doesn’t, and Aptera will cater to a niche market that is separate from Tesla’s.

      2a. Batteries. You refer to Tesla being the leading lithium battery producer. However, Tesla certainly hasn’t cornered the market, and lithium battery components are available from other sources. I’m pretty sure (saw it or read it somewhere) that Aptera has a supplier lined up for the individual cells, and will be grouping them into custom-fit modules themselves. I may be mistaken about that, though.

      2b. Solar cells. This, to me, is the most important point that you raised. I have no idea how one would go about replacing damaged/degraded solar cells. As you mentioned, it would probably make the most sense to replace the whole body panel containing them. Hopefully, Aptera will grow quickly and, by the time this becomes a substantial issue, have infrastructure in place to facilitate this kind of repair.

      3. Regarding the share price of $10.50 for current investors, I personally don’t think it’s that big a deal if that price goes down following an IPO. If I ultimately decide to join the Accelerator program (I’m also still on the fence), it’ll be to get my Aptera sooner while helping the company progress to production faster. Maybe the price per share settles around $5 post IPO. Maybe less. That’s the risk you take with any startup. It’s up to each investor to determine the amount of risk they’re willing to accept.

      On a side note, my two biggest concerns are final vehicle price (probably going to go up, but how much?) and whether or not enough funding comes through for them to make it to production. I was relieved when they recently announced the submission of their ATVM loan application. If they announce in the weeks or months ahead that the application gets preliminary approval (they referred to this as having a “substantively complete” application status in the May 4th webinar), then I might just bite the bullet and invest at that point. Assuming the 2000 slots haven’t filled up by then!

      • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  William Hester. Reason: Had to find the term "substantively complete" used in a recent webinar, in reference to getting preliminary approval on the ATVM loan application
    • alain-chuzel

      May 14, 2023 at 1:29 pm

      Regarding the solar, each “panel” (hood, dash, roof and hatch) will be completely replaceable. Rather than being integral to the body, they are “inserts”.


    May 12, 2023 at 11:36 am

    I have two choices:

    1. Invest; then no longer be able to afford to buy an Aptera or lose the money if they go belly-up again.

    2. Don’t Invest; then be able to buy an Aptera or saved the money if they go belly-up again.

    For me choice #2 is a win-win.

  • craig-merrow

    May 12, 2023 at 1:05 pm

    I just invest a little at a time via Republic. Currently own 60 shares, and buy a few shares every pay period. Admittedly a drop in the bucket, but every bit helps. Buying a few shares at a time is easier for me rather than making a large investment at one time, and should the worst happen, I won’t feel bad about losing the money. But I think Aptera is doing all the right things, and they are making great progress!

  • Elzo

    May 17, 2023 at 3:49 am

    I will stick with Aptera if the price does not exceed 40K(LE edition). I will stick with Aptera if they overcome the European width requirement(2 meters). I will stick with Aptera if the delivery year does not exceed 2026. If they don’t succeed in providing that, my only option left will be the Tesla model 2, which will definitely be in full production by that time…..

    • gregory-annett

      June 7, 2023 at 11:39 pm

      Sandy Munro is talking about production beginning in September. Even if that’s just the Delta pre-production prototypes, it’s hard to imagine that deliveries won’t be starting by early 2024. After that, it depends on whether you have an order for a Launch Edition or some other model, as to when you will get your vehicle. It will take maybe 3 months to make the first 2000, taking into account a slow ramp and ironing out production difficulties, then after that the next 3000 non-investor Launch Edition vehicles will follow, maybe taking another 3 months or less if they have got into the rhythm of making 40 vehicles a day as planned. So anyone that orders a Launch Edition now while that is still possible, should definitely get their Aptera in 2024. Tesla Model 2? They haven’t even built the factory yet, and that is likely to take around a year, so I don’t expect to see any Model 2’s coming off the line before 2025, maybe late 2024 at the earliest, well after most of the Launch Edition Apterae have already been delivered.

      • Mike-Mars

        June 8, 2023 at 1:38 am

        Delta does not depend on full production funding, whereas having the assembly line up and running does. Hand-assembling customer vehicles in the absence of a production line is extremely expensive, and would actually hurt the chances of a production-ramp-up because the burn rate would become very high. Therefore Delta appearing in September does not automatically mean that production can start, it still depends on big investors etc.

        … so, fingers crossed!

        • gregory-annett

          June 8, 2023 at 4:52 am

          All of the Apterae will be hand-assembled. The only automated part of the production line is the RedViking robots that move the vehicles from one station to the next. I have seen photos of those robots in the production facility so they already have them. All they will be doing over the next few months is setting them up, getting in the parts and starting to practise the assembly process. There is no reason why Delta won’t be assembled in the same way the other vehicles are. They have to have some vehicles for crash testing and other testing. My thinking is that the sooner the Launch Edition vehicles start rolling off the line, the sooner the company starts to move towards being cashflow positive. 40 x $33200 is $1.328 million. That’s a lot better weekly income than the $200,000 Accelerator investment money that is coming in each week at the moment. Also, don’t forget that the ATVM loan (assuming it’s approved) will kick in at some point, so that will bridge the gap between the start of production and the receipt of the customers’ payments coming into Aptera. I am also thinking that assuming the Accelerator Program is still running in September, there will be a rapid uptake of the remainder of the 2000 spots as photos and video of the first Delta vehicles coming off the production line hit the internet. Not only that, even without the incentive of a spot in line, there is likely to be a decent uptick in investment for the simple reason that a company with a working manufacturing process and 43,000 customer orders to fill is a lot better prospect for good ROI than a startup company which to this point hasn’t produced a single vehicle. We are about to see the transformation of a dream into reality. Buckle up Aptera fans, we are in for a wild ride!

          • Mike-Mars

            June 8, 2023 at 11:21 am

            RedViking robots on their own don’t cost $70M – there are quite a lot of other expenses involved. The battery production line, the solar production line, quite a lot of the needed production funds are going to CPC, etc. The final assembly process is just a very small fraction of the whole process.

            • gregory-annett

              June 8, 2023 at 3:36 pm

              Aptera is not making their own batteries like Tesla does, they are buying them from EVE. The batteries will be assembled into packs in the same facility as where the vehicles are assembled. Likewise, the solar cells are purchased from Maxeon, and the machine used to attach them to the various body panels is also located in the San Diego facility. I’m pretty sure they already have that machine in place. Yes, CPC has had to make the production tooling die, which we have already seen in the Production Tooling Update webinar. That is already paid for, and should be ready to start making the body parts by September, if that isn’t happening already. We haven’t heard much about Elaphe recently, but presumably they have the production capacity to make 120 in-wheel motors per day, and those will have to be shipped from Slovenia to San Diego. Not sure about other parts like the steering yoke, dashboard, inverters and various control systems, all of those are presumably being made by existing motor vehicle suppliers as are the tires, windscreen wipers, mirrors, all the standard minor accessories we expect in a car. Airbags, carpets, headlights, all of that stuff, nothing out of the ordinary there, although I did see an interesting video about the headlights which seem to be a pretty high quality item. It’ll be interesting to see it all coming together.

            • Mike-Mars

              June 8, 2023 at 4:37 pm

              I believe that Tesla have multiple sources for battery cells, Panasonic being the best known, as well as manufacturing some of them in-house. Aptera are getting their battery cells from EVE, and then maybe Formosa AdvEnergy LFP cells in the longer term.

            • gregory-annett

              June 9, 2023 at 4:02 pm

              Of course, Aptera can buy batteries from anyone selling 2170 cells, but I can’t see why they would bother making those cells in-house. Even Tesla didn’t go out on their own making batteries for a long time, and instead had a partnership with Panasonic to make their cells. Then when they did start making their own 4680 batteries that was only because they bought Maxwell Technologies who provided the technology needed to make them. Aptera is not following this path of vertical integration. They are not trying to be a massive company that dominates the industry like Tesla does. They are a niche player and are buying their parts from other companies. Making batteries at scale is a specialized field that is very difficult to master. Even Tesla is struggling to make enough 4680 batteries because of production difficulties, and is still having to buy cells from CATL, BYD and others to keep up their production numbers.

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