Aptera › Community › Aptera Discussions › Winter package/Canada package
Winter package/Canada packagePosted by kylen-ryan on September 29, 2022 at 8:58 am
I’m hoping aptera will have a package similar to the off-road one where the aptera will have more ground clearance and a added touch would be the inclusion of super efficient winter tiresGreek replied 1 month, 3 weeks ago 22 Members · 33 Replies
- 33 Replies
Winter package/Canada packageGreek updated 1 month, 3 weeks ago 22 Members · 33 Replies
eric-caldwellMemberSeptember 29, 2022 at 9:06 am
AFAIK, the off-road package *is* the winter package. I’ve ordered the off-road package specifically for snow and slush clearance.
I don’t know how vehicle sales work there, but I’ve never been given a choice of tires when buying a car. I *have* driven a car straight from the barge to the tire shop, though. My suspicion is that any tire choice beyond stock will be on us.
993ccMemberSeptember 30, 2022 at 12:26 pm
Ideally, a winter package would also include heated seats, heated steering…er…yoke, and a heat pump.
Also, possibly, a second set of wheels for winter tires.
- This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Bob Kirchner.
gary-mclaughlinMemberOctober 1, 2022 at 1:38 am
That would be a dream package for meI
As for the extra wheels, I always keep my winters on a dedicated set of rims. Not only does it save money in the long run by not having to pay for seasonal changeovers, it saves your summer wheels from the wear and tear caused by the harsh winter road conditions.
OCS12MemberOctober 1, 2022 at 3:11 pm
You and I are of the same mindset. I have three sets of wheels for my car. Summer, winter, and track. Ignoring the track tires, I’m only just now needing to replace both sets at 145,000 miles. The winter tires aren’t even worn, but the compound gets hard. Wheels are surprisingly cheap if you aren’t buying silly chrome things. Tires last a long time if used in ideal conditions.
FranMemberOctober 4, 2022 at 4:50 pm
With Elaphe motor’s magnets around the perimeter of the motor and your wheel being less than an inch away, will a steel wheel interfere with the motor performance, causing us to have to get aluminum/magnesium rims?
curtis-cibinelMemberOctober 1, 2022 at 7:38 am
- Heated seats should be coming back. They were removed for simplicity given the initial rollout to California.
- Heating the yoke would make sense for any market that gets a winter.
- Heat pumps that would work are hard to source but once they figure it out it should become standard.
- Variations are expensive so likely all of these should eventually just be standard eventually (and no software lockout sillyness)
- No point in the company adding to many options. People can buy snow tires themselves. Aptera has to many options as it is (adds complexity for manufacturing)
993ccMemberOctober 1, 2022 at 7:47 am
I certainly didn’t suggest that I would want a company based in San Diego to buy winter tires for me.
Given that Aptera’s wheels may be unique in offset (to accommodate the hub motors), it would be useful if Aptera could offer to include an extra set of WHEELS with the vehicle, to spare us the extra expense of shipping three wheels across the country when the first winter arrives. This is not an extra variation, just additional parts.
klaas-stokerMemberOctober 2, 2022 at 4:55 am
Are you really planning to drive it in the snow? I am sure it is capable, but it may not be the best idea. Four wheel vehicles have considerably better snow grip than do 2 or 3 wheeled vehicles, which is why you don’t see the latter on the road in winter. Snow and ice cover the solar cells as well. I suppose you could drive it very carefully, but there is another concern.
In winter snow and ice can accumulate in wheel wells of cars which you must clear out or you will lose the ability to steer. I know this is not an issue in areas with dry snow, but it is a significant risk with wet snow. It is not going to be easy to clear out the wheel covers on an Aptera.
michael-kahlowMemberOctober 2, 2022 at 6:08 am
Short answer – yes, given where I live, I am planning to drive it in the snow. I have no choice, because I live in the Land of Snow, and if I want to drive, some of the driving will be in the snow.
If it’s not at least a passable winter car, that’s a deal killer for me, and probably for a lot of others. A vehicle isn’t economical if you have to store it from December through March and have a separate winter car.
ROMADMemberOctober 2, 2022 at 9:41 am
Well, Several Miata (and probably other sports car) owners that live in the snow belt do just that: store during the winter, then get it out during the Spring, Summer, and Fall. Only common sense for a vehicle that isn’t intended to be driven in snow. The Aptera is NOT designed to replace your 4WD SUV/pickup, it is designed primarily for local area driving in good weather conditions with long times between being plugged in to recharge.
curtis-cibinelMemberOctober 2, 2022 at 10:02 am
Agreed. The Aptera must be at least as competent as a standard FWD econobox in the snow/ice or it just doesn’t work for me either. I intend it to be our only vehicle and I ski/snowboard. The traction control and AWD should make it quite effective at ice. For snow most vehicles can handle a few inches past their ground clearance so an offroad packaged Aptera with AWD should do reasonably. I intend it to be my only vehicle. Having multiple vehicles with one sitting in the garage 6 months per year is a luxury and is definitely inefficient and environmentally irresponsible.
john-twinoMemberNovember 5, 2022 at 11:57 pm
I feel the same way. It has to be a passable winter vehicle to be usable in the great snowy north. The uncertainty of its winter capabilities are keeping me on the fence
bart-cunninghamMemberOctober 4, 2022 at 2:07 am
Lots of snow and bad road conditions here and I am planning on this being my only vehicle. I will probably be getting the off-road package if for no other reasons the huge potholes we have around here especially in the spring. I believe this car should drive quite well with appropriate tiers and the wheel wells should not be an issue as they have fixed internal clearances. I would think the motors would provide some heat to help melt out any accumulations also but not sure if that even matters. Since the vehicle does have some slope to the panels that may assist in the snow sliding off and with the nasty cold winds blowing it will probably mostly blow off anyway. Worst case, I would have to push off the snow piles to get the charging back on track in the morning. Really wanting to get mine ASAP.
gary-mclaughlinMemberOctober 2, 2022 at 5:56 am
In the FAQs, Aptera writes “With all-wheel-drive and vectorized torque control, Aptera handles beautifully in the snow and ice.With all-wheel-drive and vectorized torque control, Aptera handles beautifully in the snow and ice.” Based on that, I am hoping to be able to drive my Aptera with the off-road package in wintery weather. However, depending on actual winter testing and the feedback from people with real life experience, I may have to reassess my hopes. Even if tests and feedback are positive, I will likely hang onto my SUV until I’m comfortable with the idea that I no longer need it
With respect to winter rims, I expect the OEMs will be made of a light weight alloy which leave me wondering how much impact heavier after market steel rims will have on efficiency.
harry-parkerModeratorOctober 2, 2022 at 10:02 am
No need to buy rusting, heavy steel rims. I’m sure Aptera will make their own rims available for purchase or tell you where you can buy them. (They are a standard rather than a custom part.)
brandon-shafferMemberNovember 6, 2022 at 6:22 am
I live just north of Denver, Colorado, and we get plenty of snow here too. I agree that the snow option is a must. I learned something here … sounds like I need to select the off-road package. Thanks everybody!
Jim-PaceMemberNovember 7, 2022 at 9:28 pm
This reply repeats some of my earlier posts. Apologies. I live in one of the snowiest towns in the west. My Aptera will have all wheel drive, but not the off-road version. Why, because my little town does a great job of clearing my road (school bus route) and my plow guy shows up. But if I want first chair on a Powder day, we’ll, that’s what I’m keeping the Subaru Outback for.
john-bussMemberNovember 30, 2022 at 9:31 am
You can’t seriously say a car works in the snow without:
Defrost and defrost on the rear view.
Heater is basic but I’ve gone without; but defrost is a MUST.
Now 3 wheels makes me think I keep my other car… The rear almost needs to act either like a snow mobile or act like a ski… it doesn’t look like their rear design will be strong enough but it could be tweaked to act like a ski if for those moments a bump of snow happens. The worst possible thing is fishtailing.
Can ice be removed from the solar panels?
Everything else can be added after market: heated steering (tricky), heated seats, ice scraper, boot tray, tires, car cover. Aptera could make or sell optimal solutions for these and they should but it’s not as critical as the above. At least provide cad files of the car for 3rd parties and the community.
A car cover would avoid the entire ice and snow problem as well as providing for winter storage. The odd shape makes this difficult; a clever form fitting nylon tarp (like the tent) which goes on/off easily would go a long long way. Ice kills aerodynamics…
cary-johnsonMemberJanuary 17, 2023 at 2:00 pm
Good day to all in this discussion. I believe all of the correspondence has been well thought out and many concerns have been respectfully presented. May I present as a consumer of over 50 years that no auto manufacturing company has ever fully anticipated the the complexities of their products or customers needs.
Aptera has done an excellent job of presenting a starting metrics that has touched the imagination of thousands of end users. I would suggest the business opportunities for regional or national design are endless and exciting. I welcome those challenges and look forward to what this group of imaginative engineers will have to offer us in the future .
cary-johnsonMemberJanuary 17, 2023 at 2:50 pm
A thought experiment
Modular power? Range anxiety could be ameliorated through a modular energy capacity.
Our premier (Alberta) has indicated a preference for hydrogen as a green alternative to other forms of energy. Could the talented engineers at aptera invent a hydrogen augmented power source to say a 250 mile or 400 mile unit as a hybrid option?
I can imagine room in the existing frame and storage area?
Mazdas by hybrid development is very compact.
GreekMemberJanuary 17, 2023 at 4:46 pm
Range anxiety??? What??? 1,000 mile range is better than any vehicle ever developed.
Solar energy on a vehicle that can be driven solely by the sun or when needed charged with the least amount of electricity to take you further than an gasoline, diesel or hydrogen vehicle with the least amount of expense.
Why add the complexity of a secondary propulsion system, that isn’t even that efficient?
Am I misunderstanding your question or reference?
- This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by John Voules.
cary-johnsonMemberJanuary 18, 2023 at 7:20 am
Thanks for your spirited response John. I to would like see a 1000 mile solar product powered in my driveway as soon as possible. But may I ask you to consider that much of the northern continent doesn’t have the abundance of sunshine enjoyed by the lower latitude’s. Electric grids are not as robust as we are led to believe. Until the services we use are capable of providing our needs reliably we must continue to investigate as many options as possible.
GreekMemberJanuary 18, 2023 at 7:47 am
Why not use hydrogen to produce electricity to put directly into the grid if the grid is not providing enough. The complexity and the weight of augmenting each vehicle truly does not make sense. Batteries are only getting better and solar panels are also are improving consistently. Yes you are in a northern climate, Germany (generally a cloudy environment) is also at similar latitudes and they seem to be using solar panels just about everywhere you can put them, including their autobahn. I believe your premier is just pushing his own agenda.
bryan-hendricksMemberJanuary 20, 2023 at 8:35 am
If the car battery is big enough AND given my own use-cases, it probably makes more sense for me to put the generator in my home (to augment power for both home and car) instead of in my car. Your “mileage” may vary.
jesthorbjornMemberJanuary 18, 2023 at 6:43 am
A few rebuttal comment to your thought experiment:
As long as the primary way of producing hydrogen is by steam reformation of natural gas, your premier is just green washing.
Speaking as someone who has over 230,000 km of EV driving under my belt, and all that in an EV with little more than 100 km range, this discussion seems to be looking for a solution to a vanishingly small problem even with my pathetic EV’s range, never mind an EV with 4-14 times that range!
I’ve found myself wishing I might have had an alternative way to power my current EV maybe twice, and both those times I ended up getting by without that.
If you really think you need a stand-alone, back-up power supply in your EV, a petrol powered generator capable of 1.2-1.5 kW is compact enough, easily had and paired with an appropriate EVSE, will restore range to an Aptera at a rate around 150 km per hour.
None of this requires innovation or “rocket science”.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by Joel Smith.
cary-johnsonMemberJanuary 18, 2023 at 7:38 am
Joel thanks so much for the points you have made. I believe the production of hydrogen via high pressure steam is a very worthwhile use for a abundant energy resource in my province of Alberta. The end products of this reformation process are heat and carbon dioxide which in our jurisdiction is sequestered in deep well formations or used as a component in new products.
The use of hydrogen as a source of vehicle energy is not new and is very low in the requirements of rare earth elements. Platinum as a catalyst in the fuel cell is easily recycled. The fuel cell produces electricity water vapour and heat which in our frigid winters would be a welcome byproduct to preheat the battery pack and the auto interior prior to use.
Mike-MarsMemberJanuary 18, 2023 at 10:12 am
Hydrogen production is inefficient, for example, with steam-methane reforming, often you would be better off just burning the natural gas in the first place to generate electricity instead.
Hydrogen production is quite popular with natural gas producers, because they’d sell more natural gas that way.
Pragmatic_to_a_FaultMemberJanuary 19, 2023 at 11:15 am
I would like to see real world testing in snow with the awd option.
Awd works great when you have ground clearance and eight over the wheels to push them into the show and give them more grip and cutting power to move you forward.
Sleds work because they are light weight and sit on top of the snow, and even if you and your body weight push it down it disperses your weight, so it will slide,
You have a vehicle with virtually negative weight on the wheels to make it super efficient,
Will it sit on top of the snow ? Or will it dig in and move ?
If it digs in and moves, will the wheel pants fill with snow and slush and stop the car ? Will it refresh over night ? Locking the car in place ?
How much clearance is there between the wheel pants and the tires ? Not nearly as much as wheel wells.
Real world testing needs to be done. Not everyone lives in sunny Southern California
- This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by James Lee.
ROMADMemberJanuary 19, 2023 at 1:37 pm
Your last sentence is correct; I live in sunny Arizona but at 5,300 ft. I shoveled snow off most of the driveway yesterday morning (the sun melted the rest) , but we may get some more tonight.
bryan-hendricksMemberJanuary 20, 2023 at 8:20 am
I don’t expect a single vehicle to meet all of my requirements.
I live in northern Utah. I live in a valley – not on top of a mountain. I expect to drive my Aptera in the winter. I don’t expect to drive it every day in the winter. I intend to keep my faithful old pickup truck for those times when an Aptera is not the optimal solution. I won’t drive the Aptera during significant snow storms. I won’t take the Aptera to the dump. I won’t haul a new refrigerator home from the store in my Aptera.
I work from home, so I typically don’t need to drive on big snow days if I don’t want to. I anticipate (hope) the Aptera will be the optimal solution for 95%+ of my non-winter driving and 70%+ of my winter driving. The way I see it, the Aptera will be another tool. I have a variety of tools. I use the best tool available for a job. If the Aptera is not a good fit for the job, then I won’t try to force it.
I love the idea of a winter package. It would probably improve the odds that I would drive the Aptera in the winter. I am currently considering the off-road package for similar reasons.
My apologies to folks who are in a different phase of life and don’t have the luxury of having multiple tools. I’ve been there. I get it.
Pragmatic_to_a_FaultMemberJanuary 20, 2023 at 10:23 am
The idea behind the aptera is to save the planet with its solar, zero carbon footprint… right ?
I have an Awd Volvo crosscountry , it’s an ice car it’s a planet killer in the eyes of many, if I have to keep it so I can drive in the winter. What’s the point of the aptera ? Right ?
I have a 1952 MG-TD that I only drive in nice weather, an Ultra Classic Harley that I ride in nice weather. I have multiple tools at my disposal. But I thought the idea of the aptera was to save the planet by being so green and friendly ?
The more and more I read what others have to say the more it makes me realize. Until it’s a 4 seater and can replace your average family sedan, be proven to handle itself in all climates. It’s nothing more than a glorified toy. That you need multiple vehicles in multiple climates so that you can get to work.
bryan-hendricksMemberJanuary 20, 2023 at 10:48 am
Respectfully, I thought the idea behind Aptera was to make a super-efficient vehicle. I thought that helping the planet was a benefit of having super-efficient vehicles. I thought that shedding the chains of big oil was another benefit of having a super-efficient solar electric vehicle.
I don’t want to minimize the value of helping the planet. I also don’t want to delay the benefit of helping the planet until someone creates a perfect solution. Frankly, I think it will be a while before someone designs a vehicle that can replace an SUV, a truck, a minivan, and a commuter with a single solar electric vehicle. Meanwhile, if I can move a significant percentage of my driving to something like the Aptera, then I will be making a significant amount of progress.
I’m trying not to let “perfection” get in the way of “progress”.
GreekMemberJanuary 20, 2023 at 11:12 am
👍 👍 👍