Worth the Weight?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Worth the Weight?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Worth the Weight?

  • Worth the Weight?

  • Ray Holan

    Moderator
    March 9, 2022 at 10:14 am

    Just viewed the latest from Steve at Aptera Owners Club:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb8u1x3DEec

    Several of his observations make good sense IMHO. I was intrigued by his informed speculation about the weights of the various Aptera battery packs and the resultant vehicle weights. He runs through a spreadsheet in the video, but here’s the gist of his guesstimates.

    250 mile pack = about 350 lbs. pack and a 1,320 lb. vehicle

    400 mile pack = about 550 lbs. pack and a 1,525 lb. vehicle

    600 mile pack = about 825 lbs. pack and a 1,800 lb. vehicle

    1000 mile pack =about 1375 lbs. pack and a 2,350 lb. vehicle

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    March 9, 2022 at 10:24 am

    They have also said 1800 lb for 600m and 2200 for 1000m. This would be 10lb / kwh which is essentially state of the art. Also remember the batteries aren’t actually 25/40/60/100 due to their own weights impacting efficiency. The battery range is likely more likely 21 kwh – 105 kwh. Motormatchup has numbers and puts the lightest at ~1493lb and heaviest (with 100lb for AWD) at 2250 lb (without the driver).

    • Ray Holan

      Moderator
      March 9, 2022 at 11:03 am

      Thanks for the additional data points, Curtis. It will be interesting to see how close these numbers are to the production vehicles when they are finally on the road.

    • Oz (It’s Oz, just Oz)

      Member
      March 9, 2022 at 2:24 pm

      Also, keeping in mind that CA has said that the battery packs may not be those exact kWh sizes, IIIRC they will be tailored to match the mileage quoted for each model, as they validate the energy burn amounts.

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    March 9, 2022 at 2:20 pm

    There’s also the question of packaging: If the cells are organized into modules and then the modules arranged into packs there’s a lot of packaging and bracing involved. Tesla’s current move toward “structural packs” will do away with a lot of extra weight.

    Sandy Munro and Sabic are designing a “plastic” pack that’s stronger and lighter in weight than any currently available system, and includes built-in temperature conditioning and fire suppression.

  • Rob Spruijt

    Member
    March 10, 2022 at 7:45 pm

    Lots of interesting points in the video. I lean towards the 400-600 miles, and the only benefit of a larger pack would be if I can use it for V2H. Which is not currently an option, it seems.

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    March 10, 2022 at 11:02 pm

    I was looking at the very base 250 mile and no options as my sport run-about. The 25kwh battery charges very quickly compared to nearly every other EV out there. You can drive about 3 hours at highway speeds, take a break, charge up and go. I did settle on 400 miles with all the bells and whistles since my wife and I go on weekend trips every 3 months. We travel about 3 to 5 hours on those trips.

  • Vernon Michael Gardner

    Member
    March 10, 2022 at 11:05 pm

    Ray, Lol, liked the title word play.

    • Ray Holan

      Moderator
      March 11, 2022 at 5:47 am

      Thanks. Life is too short to avoid an opportunity for humor!

  • Russell Fauver

    Member
    March 11, 2022 at 10:20 am

    Great video! His thoughts match pretty close to what my experience has been with driving an ev. I have to say though, looking at his 5 things, Time, High Temp, Operating at max min state of charge, High Current and lastly Charge Cycles, the only one that doesn’t change with pack size is time.

    High Temps can be brought on from charging or discharging at a rate that generates more heat than the cooling system can handle. Charging a larger battery pack at the same power as a smaller one will generate less heat. Same with discharging, same load will not tax a larger battery as much as a smaller one. If there’s less heat to dissipate there’s less chance of running at high temperatures.

    Operating at high or low state of charge. With a larger pack it is less likely to get into those areas. Bigger packs have more miles available in the battery’s ‘sweet spot’.

    High Current. The aptera’s max current draw is going to be pretty similar across the range of battery sizes. 3 wheel motors, resistance cabin heat, lights, music, whatever. The load compared to battery capacity, C rate, on a smaller pack will be larger than it would be on a larger pack if you are running all the same things. My little EV has a 100 ah battery at 190 volts. My max draw from the motor is 215 amps, a little over 2C. If my pack was four times larger the draw would be .5C. Maybe that’s wrong, math is hard.

    Lastly is Usage, Charge Cycles. This one is pretty obvious. The 250 mile battery would need to be charged 4x more than the largest battery to cover the same number of miles.

    I could be wrong about these things. My first hand experience with EVs is limited to a sample size of one.

    I have LFP batteries in my car and they’ve lost about 25% of their capacity in 10 years. Plus the voltage sag is pretty dramatic now on cold winter days. I put a deposit on a 600 mile version because I’d like to have a solid 300 miles of range over the life of the car in whatever weather conditions I happen to run in to.

    • Gary Greenway

      Member
      March 14, 2022 at 7:20 am

      Those are the same reasons I went with the 600 mile version. I need a solid 250 mile winter highway range.

  • IA -1

    Member
    March 11, 2022 at 1:37 pm

    For me the most suitable battery pack would be the 250 mile pack, since my daily commute is 6 miles in both directions. I don’t drive more than 4000-6000 miles per year with my personal car (we have another family car). I also go to work with my motorcycle when the weather allows, which is April to end of September.

    But if we get the $7,500 tax credit I am getting the 400 mile pack 🙂 With that and with the 5% investors discount the cost of my Aptera would be $9,000 less than the MSRP. I don’t see any incentives in NJ, but hopefully we might get some by the time Aptera starts with the deliveries.

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