Aptera › Community › Aptera Discussions › Aptera final price tag
Aptera final price tagAndrew replied 2 months ago 50 Members · 72 Replies
Aptera final price tagAndrew updated 2 months ago 50 Members · 72 Replies
joshua-rosenMemberNovember 21, 2022 at 11:31 am
The prices will be what they will be. The price sheet was created before the car was designed, it was based on a set of wild ass guesses about what it would cost to build. At the time they didn’t know what would be in the car, who the suppliers would be or the exact costs of anything. Hopefully they padded the numbers enough so that they would have some cushion when they had actual costs. During the design process they would have had an eye on their promised price targets and made choices appropriately. What they couldn’t have known was just how bad inflation would be, we’ve had decades since the end of the Carter inflation so it was reasonable to assume that inflation would be much lower than it turned out to be.
When they set their actual prices, vs the aspirational prices on the website, they have to set them high enough to make a profit. Beyond that they have to keep them low enough to stay competitive. They start out at a $7500 disadvantage because they don’t qualify for Federal tax credits, on top of that they also won’t qualify for many state rebates which will push the price disadvantage to $10K in many places. They will be walking a very fine line when they set their prices, they have to be profitable on a per car basis right out the chute but they can’t be so expensive as to drive off most of their price sensitive customers.
scott-gilbertMemberNovember 21, 2022 at 11:51 am
<div>Here is my thought posted elsewhere: </div>Perhaps Aptera Sales Coordinator should start calling the first 5000 preorders and provide them with a more accurate delivery estimate and obtain their specific order details. Then mandate a $10,000 commitment payment from each. The math works well. Keep reaching out to order holders till the money arrives in sufficient quantities! First orders with cash get the production started and a vehicle in the driveway. I would love to get that phone call!
Pragmatic_to_a_FaultMemberNovember 21, 2022 at 5:59 pm
I was on every excited about aptera returning, it’s looking more and more like another pipe dream of Chris Anthony , where he takes in tons of cash and never produces a darn thing except a hefty bank account balance.
That being said. If they raise the price at all, im out. It’s bad enough they’ve played around with the design for years now and keep delaying.
sparkyJayMemberNovember 22, 2022 at 8:39 pm
Is it just me or is this entire discussion premature? You risked a relatively minor deposit. At the time your reservation comes up you can choose to close the sale or ask for your deposit back. What purpose does opening up this discussion actually serve? Each one of us must decide what this vehicle is worth for themselves. If the price goes up some orders will no doubt vanish. So the reality is that only Aptera can decide the price point they wish to set for their product. Until then why not sit back and wait to see what the future holds.
SolanaMemberNovember 22, 2022 at 9:03 pm
I hope Aptera looks back and reviews at how Rivian and Lucid communicated their price increases. Which one was handled better?
I believe no increase will be announce until Delta is built and the company has a good idea what the actual cost will be.
jonah-jorgensonMemberNovember 23, 2022 at 6:37 am
Price increase is a sure thing. The CEOs are strongly hinting at it in preparation for an announcement once Aptera determines what the costs of operations will be and what the margin needs be. Aptera has no capital cushion to take a loss on 37K vehcles as Rivian did. At the moment, Aptera does not have the capital to proceed with production let alone absorb a loss per vehicle sale.
Aptera will be creative in fashoning the price increase as they are with everything they do.
Those that believe or wish for no price increase are living in a fantasy world.
Pragmatic_to_a_FaultMemberNovember 23, 2022 at 2:44 pm
I just logged in from another browser. Built an Aptera to my original order specs and the price is exactly the same as it was 2 years ago.
If aptera isn’t raising their price , why are so many of you pushing for them to raise their prices ?
If inflation isn’t bad enough on its own, you don’t need to push for more FFS !
sethMemberNovember 23, 2022 at 7:46 pm
On the other hand Aptera was probably also basing their cost estimates off low volume production numbers. They’ve basically doubled their production goals with a potential second shift at their first factory, and seem surprised by the amount of demand. Even if they only produce 10k vehicles/year that’s more than Lamborghini ever has in a single year with much fewer carbon parts. Less parts equals cheaper, and higher volume equal cheaper, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the CPC deal ends up cheaper than they were expecting to pay to have people hand make the carbon parts, and certainly less expensive than a complicated Lamborghini. Same goes for their wiring harness, and I’m sure plenty of other systems/parts.
Also from the sound of it they probably already ordered many parts ahead of time to avoid last minute supply chain issues which means prices may already be locked in for those.
All of that to say I don’t think prices will definitely increase. Just very likely
raymond-nettletonMemberNovember 24, 2022 at 7:08 am
Why would Aptera actually need to raise prices? It is a 1600+ lb vehicle with a relatively small battery pack. Commodity prices are generally falling. There are only 3 wheels and 3 doors. There is not a ton of detail or fancy amenities. No heat pump, no heated steering. Manufacturing is basically assembly of parts by others. Plug and play.
If Aptera is smart with overhead they will transition their design team and early marketing folks to production rather than keep them on the payroll and twiddling their thumbs. Intersperse some manufacturing talent to give them direction.
What drives me nuts about this stage is they have some cash but are burning it waiting for more cash, so they actually need to raise even more. They need to build the first 1000 and then convert reservations to hard deposits going forward when people start raving about zippy low impact and fun transportation for 2.
konijntjeMemberDecember 25, 2022 at 12:06 am
Hey everyone. How much do you think aptera will ask for their first cars?
With inflation, unable to make it to production so far in terms of funding, i wonder how much precent the vehicle is going up.
Until now, aptera didn’t raise the price because they want people to preorder as much as possible.
jim-payneMemberDecember 25, 2022 at 2:50 am
I do believe they will when they are in actual production and when it is imminent the first one is going to roll off the line. I would guess the base model will start out at 28K and each variation will go up about 3K.
Jon_ArrynMemberDecember 25, 2022 at 3:21 am
IMHO, if they are going to raise prices for production, then do it now, set expectations. I also hope that for any existing pre-orders, that original order price is honored.
You only have to look to the PR fiasco earlier this year when Rivian tried to raise prices for existing pre-orders. I can’t wait to see the fallout with Tesla, when it’s going to be clear, no $39K CyberTruck will be orderable.
I feel that if Aptera tried that, it would be brutal for the startup. A couple of years ago, pretty much no EV could touch Aptera on pricing alone. Now we EM’s Solo, having started production last week, the price-reduced 2023 Chevy Bolt, and the upcoming 2024 Chevy Equinox, as well as the 2024 Fisker PEAR, both releasing the fall of 2023.
While the Solo is exceptionally less expensive, the others are all in the same pricing range, depending on options. All of them have Pros/Cons as compared to Aptera. You mileage will vary depending on your personal requirements.
It’s a very long way of saying the market is much more competitive than when Aptera first announced production plans for fall of 2021.
Mike-MarsMemberDecember 25, 2022 at 6:27 am
My feeling is that Aptera will not raise the prices for pre-order holders. The reason is that, originally, the plan was to hand-make all the panels, which is extremely expensive in manpower. They are now being mass-produced by stamping them out at CPC, which is a far cheaper way to do it. There’s also more price-competition than before.
- This reply was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by Michael Marsden.
craig-merrowMemberDecember 25, 2022 at 12:14 pm
Order #56336 (12/23/2022); mine is spec’d out with the 600 mile range, AWD, drivers enhancement, full solar package and Sol White with the Vida interior for $39,350. Might see it by summer 2024, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a bit of an increase between now and then. A lot can change in that timeframe.
- This reply was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by Craig Merrow.
rex-schneiderMemberDecember 27, 2022 at 9:25 am
Why is everyone so determined to make this car cost more? There is a tight market coming for EV with everyone dropping their price point. An Aptera costs less to make then other EVs because of the efficient design and the 3 wheel configuration. The fact that Aptera only needs 25% or so of the batteries of other EVs to go the same distance is a huge savings. They have now reduced the cost of producing the body by using CPC rather then in house hand lay-up. there is every reason to believe that they will come in under budget especially since they have enough orders to be able to take advantage of economies of scale.
SamMemberDecember 27, 2022 at 9:38 am
I don’t think the price will change for existing pre-orders. Making Aptera affordable to many, including the less fortunate, monetarily, played a big part in it’s initial price tag. And I certainly hope that particular focus hasn’t diminished.
- This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Sam Adams. Reason: spell check
paul-hackettMemberDecember 27, 2022 at 4:05 pm
There’s nothing in the “preorder prospectus” or sales pitch that guarantees a price and in terms of contract law, you’ve paid nothing for such a guarantee; no consideration has been exchanged, therefore Aptera has no contractual obligation to those price points. The prospectus and “sales-pitch” is pretty clear $100 gets you in line to purchase and the next step is to commit to a deposit when your place in line comes “up”, at which point you finalize the “build” and put down a “big-boy” deposit to purchase your dream Aptera. But no where does it say something to the effect of “in exchange for a $100.00 deposit you lock in a price. That is simply wishful thinking and frankly not a mature thought process based on life’s experiences. Someone mentioned that whatever the price turns out to be “at least it will be reduced by a $7,000.00 tax credit” or words to that affect. I don’t believe that is the case as I don’t believe an exception was carved out of the latest federal legislation regarding electric vehicle; specifically I think the Aptera is still considered a motorcycle and that electric motorcycles are not included in the above mentioned rebate legislation; I’ll stand corrected should someone have better information on that point. If my 1000 mile range Aptera, all wheel drive, full solar panel comes in at $75,000 instead of what I remember as something like $52,000 I’ll grow my arms longer and shorten my pockets to make it happen.
sethMemberJanuary 20, 2023 at 11:51 pm
Steve Fambro let slip over half of orders were over 40k in a previous interview even though it seems over half of the orders were 250, and 400 mile orders that are below 40k fully optioned out. Now we have him mentioning 20-25% inflation….<div>
$33,200 with 20% inflation =$39,840
$33,200 with 25% inflation =$41,500
Still worth it? Even without DCFC?
RileyMemberJanuary 21, 2023 at 1:47 am
if you live in Southern California and spend $3,500 a year on gasoline it would take 12 years to for an aptera to equal $40,000 in gas savings. Keep in mind that gas prices will only get more expensive.
konijntjeMemberJanuary 21, 2023 at 2:04 am
The simple answer is no. I think a lot of people would choose a alternate EV if aptera went up more then 10-20%.
The prices of ev’s dropped recently because tesla started a price war.
Aptera is efficient and cheap to drive, but if a alternative is costing a fair amount less to purchase and offers more seats, rapid charging, more space to pack goods, then i think the aptera will quickly lose it’s space in the grand scheme. However aptera will always have a place in the market with it’s efficient and unique design.
AndrewMemberJanuary 23, 2023 at 11:29 am
Its interesting to see a number of people argue that it is naive or selfish to hope the price won’t rise, or to think of the deposit as contractual. As others here have noted, the price issue is about feature set honesty and market competitiveness. The aptera at currently advertised prices is already close to some hypothetical cost ceiling for mass adoption; the more features are removed or softened (DCFC), the more the end product differs from the advertised product (yoke, real world range vs advertised range), the less the price can rise and remain compelling for the mass market. The Aptera is without a doubt a great car when viewed as an ultra low volume collector car like the Campagna T-Rex, at which point they can sell it for however much they want, but their volumes will such that there is nothing paradigm shifting or world-changing about it, though plenty to keep the company profitable.
Its true that Aptera may need to charge a lot more than advertised, but it is also true that the vast majority of cars on the road nationwide are 7-15 years old and purchased used. Personally I’ve never paid more than 12k for a car, and while my situation isn’t typical, my six-figure-earning doctor friends have only purchased lightly used SUVs for around $30k, and my nine-figure-earning realestate friends spend less than $18k on a car with their ‘warren buffet’ mindset. Aptera’s stated goal is to cause a Model-T-esque paradigm shift, which requires massive numbers of vehicles to be even partially true.
TL/DR aptera needs to stay pretty affordable and pretty close to the advertised specs to have any chance as mass adoption.