Battery replacement

[Lou]

Vernon, while I appreciate the origin of your inquiry – that’s certainly a shocking figure for a Volt battery replacement – certainly no one here on the forum would be qualified to provide you with anything but a guess and I’d be willing to bet even Aptera wouldn’t be able to answer that. Barring some defect not covered by warranty, I have to think that, given rapid advancements in battery technology, by the time any of these batteries reach the end of their useful lives, replacements will be entirely different than the originals making it impossible to predict cost.

[joshua-rosen]

An out of warranty battery replacement is 8 years away, in California the law is 10 years. Battery cells will be much cheaper by then, everything else is an unknown. There will no doubt be battery pack rebuilders, will rebuilt Aptera packs exist, no one can say. As for damage to the pack, make sure you have insurance that covers it.

[bruce-mengler]

based upon Aptera’s prices the cost difference between 600 mile & 400 mile versions is $4800 for 200 mile range increase. By simple extrapolation should be a close approximation below:

400 mile range cost is $9,600

600 mile range cost is $14,400

10000 mile range cost is $24,000

• This reply was modified 1 year, 8 months ago by  BRUCE MENGLER.

[Russell]

At the rate things in the battery industry are changing you could look at today’s prices and in 10 years it might be about a third of that.

I bought a new set of LFP batteries for my EV ten years ago. Each cell was roughly $130-$135 and had a capacity of 100 ah. Just bought a new set of LFP cells last month, almost 10 years later, and each cell was $130-$135 but the capacity had increased to 280 ah. After ten years the same money buys almost 3 times the capacity. No reason to think that shouldn’t happen during the next ten years.

[curtis-cibinel]

I think its very important to recognize that this is a quote from a dealer that doesn’t actually want to do this. It is intended as a sticker shock so people will not buy EVs or will simply get a new car instead of fixing it. Actual battery costs are considerably lower. The $24000 cost for the battery pack of a 1000 mile altera is probably not far off given the high demand and low volumes Aptera will be purchasing (vs Rivian, Tesla, GM, Ford etc) but remember that is a very large pack. The key thing to remember is that properly cooled NMC/NMA batteries have a lifetime exceeding that of most cars. Battery degradations for most Tesla’s is roughly 10% after 200,000 miles (aka more than the life of most vehicles).

Given Aptera is engineered with enough room for the 1000 mile battery and LFP tech has improved amazingly in the last 2 years I think a switch is very likely within the first few years of production for the shorter range versions. This would also reduce Aptera’s cost per vehicle and potentially be critical profit margin to help offset inflation.

[daniel-crotty]

I was just watching a YouTube video by Transport Evolved ( Older Electric Cars Are Out Of Warranty – And That’s A Problem Nobody Wants To Discuss – YouTube )

It made me once again wonder about this. Yes, I would expect to not need this for many years. Still, it will happen sooner or later. Hopefully, by that time, the batteries and pack designes will be even better. The story seems to be, replacing an out of warranty can cost as much as the value of the car, so it is off to the junk yard with it. Bolt, Volt, Leaf, etc. are either there or getting there.

I would like to think that the Aptera process is as simple as undoing some bolts and connections, out with the old, in with the new, and you are done. Yeah, lifting the car, etc. But a simple process.

What if it’s just a few batteries gone bad? Will the entire pack need junked?

I would like to see some Aptera personnel address this, or at least some knowledgable person. Hopefully, the Right to Repair has already addressed this. I would like to see a short YouTube on the topic. If it is not an issue, then start broadcasting it as it is a big feature Plus for sales.

Of course, a reply here as well.

[kerbe2705]

@daniel-crotty We know that the pack is modular so, logically, if a few cells go bad the modules in which they’re mounted should be replaceable – without needing to replace the entire pack.

I’m not certain how a lot of people are interpreting the concept of “right-to-repair” but all that it means, legally, is that Aptera won’t require Aptera owners to go to Aptera-sanctioned service centers ONLY (or else void the warranty) and that Aptera “repair manuals” will be available.

[daniel-crotty]

Aptera personnel said that, in support of Right to Repair, their design philosophy is to make it so that DIY buyers can do maintenance themselves. No “special” tools required, things are easy to access, etc. That doesn’t guarantee everything! It is a design philosophy. I do not expect to have a “lift” in my garage. I do believe I can electrocute myself easily. So, a mechanic will be involved.

What is going to be involved to replace a battery pack? The design should be such that it should be a relatively easy process. Not, buy a new car because it’s cheaper.

Watch that YouTube link that Inserted in my remark. We don’t want to experience the same situation.

I am saying this because, how many people can be scared away by posts like this. Let’s get some good info out there, assuming there is a good response.

I am not expecting it to be as simple as the systems the just exchange a low battery for a charged one. Still, the process should be as quick and simple as possible.

[ROMAD]

“I recall that years ago, you had to remove an engine in a Toyota to replace a McPhearson shock absorber.”

And there was the GM car that required the engine be lifted to change a couple of spark plugs.

[Saturnine]

<div>I recall this issue back in the early 80’s when I was in a tech school for auto mechanics.was some car in the school shop with a port that was added through a wheel access one of the spark plugs. It was said that was the design change did not have to lift the engin.</div><div>

I found this link about the issue.

</div><div>

https://community.cartalk.com/t/1970s-urban-legends-cars-that-required-engine-removal-to-replace-spark-plugs/72015

</div>

[Shawgrin]

LOL, Romad, I worked for and on Toyotas since the 1970’s, and do not recall any model that you had to take the motor out to do McPherson Strut repair or replacement. If you know the model? I sure would be interested. There are always exceptions.

[ROMAD]

I was quoting someone’s statement in a previous post. My comment was about the Chevy Monza.

And it looks like a moderator removed that post I quoted.

• This reply was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by  Dennis Swaney.

[EarlyTrekker]

You are correct about the circa ‘75 (?) v8 Monza model. The drivers side mount had to be unbolted (not removed). Then that side of the engine could be lifted to access 2 spark plugs that were otherwise blocked by the steering column. Access to the other 6 was only slightly easier

Been there, done that!

• This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by  John Bullock.

[david-marlow]

Yes, currently battery replacements cost more that we expected when I purchased my 2011 volt new. The quote posted is similar to what I recently recieved for a new replacement with a 8 year warrenty. I also responded with that must be the “they don’t want to sell it price”.

I did find a rebuilt 2015 Volt battery with a 3 year warrenty, that I did purchase, after much debating with my self, for a total cost of $11,000. I just need it to last until I get my Aptera and still be good enough to pass on, rather than scrap.

The cost of Volt batteries is high as it was a retilivetly low production car of a new type. Things are changing fast so when the Aptera’s battery needs to be replaced in 8 to 12 years, there will be more choices available at lower prices. However you can’t use the current price difference between Aptera battery sizes as a good guide, as the cost to build it in is much lower than the cost to replace it, as with any car part.

[edward-matejowsky]

It is an important question for all EVs. A lot of people seem to ignore or not know that batteries die from age regardless of use. I don’t think we have a good handle on what the calendar life of our batteries will be. If a battery is half the cost of a new car and the costs don’t come down it won’t be worth replacing batteries in out of warranty cars.

If the batteries totally fails out of warranty then the car is worthless. If they slowly lose range they are still worth something to someone.
If my 400 Mile range aptera becomes a 400 Klm aptera I can probably live with that.
If it totally dies just out if warranty I will not be happy.

I will never wear out a BEV battery – calendar life is what matters to me and replacement cost/ease.

My 3.5 year old outlander PHEV battery is down to %60 or less. It has 10 Year warranty but haven’t replaced it yet. PHEV batteries work harder than BEV but a this one is pathetic.

• This reply was modified 9 months, 2 weeks ago by  edward matejowsky.