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Should Tesla connectors be US standard?
Should CCS connectors be the US standard, or should the US adopt the Tesla connector as the US standard?
I am sure Tesla would be happy to allow usage of their connector as the nation’s standard.
It is not too late. The building out of the US charging network is still in its infancy.
Perhaps someone with Tesla experience can speak up. Does the Tesla system require a charge card on file? Are there any Tesla charge systems that will allow you to enter your charge card information for that specific charge like at gas stations?
Considering the president’s snubbing of Tesla at his press meeting, would he even consider it?
The Tesla connector looks much more convenient and easier to use. The CCS connector looks gigantic. What ever the choice, the nation will be stuck with it for a very long time.
- 57 Replies
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Should Tesla connectors be US standard?
updated 3 months ago 25 Members · 57 Replies -
Point #1: CCS has already been adopted as the national standard
Point #2: Tesla offered to share its charging tech but there were too many strings attached
Point #3: See point #1
Point #4: Tesla requires drivers to have an online account – you cannot “pay to charge”.
Point #5: Tesla wasn’t snubbed – that press conference was for legacy manufacturers who had or were about to launch EVs. No EV-only manufacturers were included.
Point #6: The Tesla connector is elegant as it works for both AC and DC charging but every non-Tesla EV and PHEV in North America and Japan has a J-1772 connector, in Europe an IEC 62196 Type 2 “Mennekes” connector and in China a GB/T connector for AC charging and either a CCS Type 1 (US/Japan), CCS Type 2 (Europe) or GB/T DC in China. The Japanese ChaDeMo connector is now no longer being used in new vehicles. So it pretty much comes down to a patent issue: Why pay Tesla to use its proprietary connector when we already have a connector we can use without charge?
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Two choice choices. The first, Tesla, locked into one vendors technology and the country subject to the whims of that vendors technology and processes. The second, CCS. An open standard not tied to a specific vendor but established by committee with broad representation.
The choice is clear, CCS
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Great responses made here as I’m dead against Being locked into Tesla. My only add would be it wouldn’t make sense for a company whose philosophy is to support and promote right to repair to choose a proprietary charging network.
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CCS is a gruesome kludge, it was designed by monkeys. Unfortunately we are stuck with it for perpetuity, it’s impossible to change a standard once it’s been widely adopted. Our houses use Edison’s plug and light socket. The only change in the last 130 years is the addition of a ground but the form factor is backward compatible.
Ideally they would come up with a CCS3 standard that has the elegance of the Tesla connector and deploy it before the current public charging system gets too built out. At the moment the vast majority of EVs on American roads are Tesla’s, there are so few CCS cars that it would be theoretically possible to fix their mistake if they were to do it in the next year. Unfortunately that timeline is impossible. By the time that they had a new CCS3 connector there will be a million CCS1 EVs on the road.
The only real hope for fixing the CCS mess is wireless charging but I don’t know if it’s capable of high speed charging or just level 2 rates.
As an aside, saw an interesting video about why the US uses 120 (originally 110) and Europe uses 240 (originally 220). Edison’s bulb used a carbon filament and it could only handle 110V. After the Chicago Worlds Fair Americans quickly adopted electric lighting and also we were building sky scrapers where gas lighting would have been difficult and dangerous. The tungsten filament bulb was developed a decade later in 1906. Tungsten could handle a higher voltage. At the time copper was very expensive so using a higher voltage had a significant cost advantage. There weren’t a lot of European electricity users yet so it was possible for the power companies to give away the new tungsten bulbs to everyone and switch the voltage to 220. In the US there were already 20 million houses that used electricity so it wasn’t possible here, the 110V standard was locked in.
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Nice video about the different charge connectors
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I think Chris’ point all along is the Tesla connnector is simple and elegant, let’s not use complicated connectors. Since it’s already designed, why not use it.?
Tesla has done a lot to boost EVs, and they’ve made a lot of $ doing it. I doubt he ever wanted to give Tesla any more than it already has, it’s just that it’s already there.
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As this theme seems to have an evolving theory as to why APTERA is pushing for Tesla plug.
It is so much easier to conceal the plug housing on the body of the APTERA. Any other plug will require a much larger boxy cut out of the body. Being ably to hide the Tesla plug housing under a side light is not only clever but does not effect at all the body’s aerodynamics. Since a regular 110 outlet would be sufficient for most with the occasional level 2 charging, I do not see too many negatives and a mostly clear and positive advantage having saved both on aerodynamics in addition to clean uninterrupted lines for the aesthetics of the vehicle.
I have a j-plug at home, I can always purchase an adapter. But as all my future vehicles will most likely be electric. I know that I can purchase another e vehicle and be able to charge both at same time without another investment to install a second charging station.
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Hard NO on the Tesla connector. The Tesla charging network is a distant #2 in terms of locations and ports. Their number of DCFC locations are less than the total of all non-Tesla locations. In another year, when Aptera hopefully releases a vehicle, the numbers will be even worse for Tesla charging due to the huge local, state and federal funds going towards installing non-Tesla chargers. To address the question directly, the government should never ever assign a standard that is proprietary.
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The least amount of proprietary stuff that goes into the car, the better. This is supposed to be an open vehicle, with right to repair at the forefront. Tesla is like the opposite of that. I also don’t get the whole connector size thing. Is this really an issue? I mean it’s not like the standard connector is 10X bigger, or 10x less capable.
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Tesla Expected To Open US Supercharger Network To Other EVs, Applies For Funds
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The US government intends to put 50,000 charging stations along interstate highways using the CCS connector. It appears $5billion is allocated. That level of standardization makes technical merits of the Tesla connector a moot point. Here is a small slice of the text:
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Section 680.106(c) proposes a requirement that Direct Current Fast Chargers (DCFCs) connect and communicate with EVs through an industry standard charging port type called the Combined Charging System (CCS). The CCS port is a non-proprietary, accepted standard port in North America developed and endorsed by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). The CCS connectors are proposed for all DCFCs to accommodate
a baseline of vehicles and to accommodate use of adapters that will provide EV charging for all vehicles. The CCS ports represent the most common port type used across all manufacturers of new EVs today. As stated in the 16th proviso of paragraph (2) under the “Highway Infrastructure Program” heading in title VIII of division J of Public Law 117-58, until the Secretary certifies that a State is fully built out on their Alternative Fuel Corridors, National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) funding is limited to use on EV charging stations along Alternative Fuel Corridors.
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Full text can be found at:
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I believe the decision on the Aptera charge connector has already been made (I have no idea what that decision is/was) and work to implement that decision is underway. We will see the results in the delta ready for production specs when released. Efforts (For or against) the adoption of the Tesla connector are most likely past the point of impacting the adoption. Regardless of the charge plug chosen for implementation, we will adjust to it!
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Tesla has posted an important news announcement and is opening the Tesla standard under the new branding North American Charging Standard (NACS). From the statements it seems very clear Aptera and others will be allowed to use superchargers.
Another noteworthy point is the assertion that the connector is capable of up to 1 MW of charging. This could show they can support higher voltage or the connector is otherwise far more capable of scaling as large EVs and Batteries evolve. They also assert it is “twice as powerful” as the CCS connector which is unclear to me.
With Tesla throwing its weight around to push this as a true standard it may have a real chance. At a minimum adapters (in both directions) and more open access seems likely. I can’t see many non-tesla networks installing more stalls until tesla opens its superchargers and vehicles actually start shipping with it (especially if they get no federal funding). This seems like an uphill battle for Tesla but is the first real indication they have an intention to fight it.
https://www.tesla.com/blog/opening-north-american-charging-standard
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Fantastic news. No doubt this is the result of Aptera’s pleading with Tesla to use their network. It also explains why they haven’t been able to announce a deal, Tesla didn’t want to do separate deals one at a time, they wanted to roll out a formal standard and provide a general framework.
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The notice that the default NACS by two-to-one in proliferation is a key metric that coupled with its superior performance ought to make this adoption a no-brainer.
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Here is an interesting podcast that goes deep into the technical details of the spec tesla released. Some good observations.
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Ford is adopting the Tesla charge port and will have access to the full Supercharger network. I think this means that Aptera will have full access also. This makes NACS a true open standard.
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Has to be good news for Aptera. Aptera can debug the non-Tesla NACS system in 2023 and 2024, so Fords will work more reliably in 2025. Good for all of us: Aptera, Tesla, and Ford.
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With GM scaling back Bolt/EV production Ford is the only domino that matters. CCS is gonna die. Aptera could still be the first with the plug directly on the vehicle. Once the adapters are available for Ford consumers will want the same for their EVs. I expect Lucid and Rivian will not be far behind.
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Nice lol meme on NACS v. CCS. v. CHADEMO. Spot on.
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Didn’t take long for more dominoes to fall. Freewire is adding NACS and EA made generic statements about being open… I think Rivian and Lucid will be the next to change. With GM out of high volume EV production the only other noteworthy companies are VW, Kia, and BMW (which total about 10% of the NA market)
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What remains to be seen is what “type” of access is granted to Superchargers: Will it be “native” (using the Tesla “plug & charge” standard) or will it require the use of an app?
But access to ALL Superchargers – not just the few v3 locations that have had MagicDock retrofits – will be a godsend. Also not requiring the use of two adapters to Supercharge an Aptera…
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2 adapters was never going to happen; Just a funny worst case idea.
We can’t really know all the details but we do know that the short term plan is still adapters. That means the only thing stopping similar adapters being used for other CCS1 vehicles is software and a related agreement with Tesla. Adapters will be demanded by existing EV owners and if they don’t get it they will not remain brand loyal. Once everyone is using superchargers with adapters the next logical step is to eliminate the annoying adapters. This is how NACS will win.
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Somewhat of a surprise, a “Big three” car company going with a competitor’s standard. But I guess thinking about it, not so much as The Ford CEO has been moving to the Tesla model of business even more than Aptera. He wants fixed prices, direct to customer sales like Tesla. (Dealers not pleased with that) May solve the charging/charging network issue for Ford instantly vs. GM who bought and is expanding a dysfunctional charging network. I sold off my Tesla Model 3 so it doesn’t affect me, but Tesla owners will be pissed at what will now be crowded DC Fast Charger stations. Not sure the current NACS standard will effectively support charging the 150 Lightnings at this point. But time will tell. The dominos are starting to fall. Certainly, more credibility to Aptera for their decision to go with NACS.
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Being the primary charge provider for the entire North American EV industry gives Tesla a lot of power and these chargers can definitely be a profitable operation. Good data to send users to other nearby locations can minimize congestion. If a supercharger is consistently full then they are actively charging for 8+ hours per day those chargers will break even in under 1 year then are pure profit for Tesla (especially if 3rd parties pay more).
Note: the announcement said 12,000 superchargers but the NA supercharger network is 17000 stalls. They are getting access to a good percentage but not all chargers.
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Well, it happened. Ford just announced they are adopting the Tesla connector as its standard. This will help sales. Having access to the best charger network nationwide, is a big advantage.
It appears the tesla charger knows what vehicle is being charged and thus what charge card is on file, to charge money to. Will it be the same with ford?
Will a charge port door automatically open on ford?
If the vehicle has a salvage title, will Tesla still charge it? I have heard that Tesla chargers will not charge salvage title Tesla vehicles.
How far will Aptera go in doing these same things?
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GM is now “leading” (aka following) by adopting NACS just like Ford. It seems the adapter availability and technical advantages of NACS are too much. I think full changover of new vehicles will happen no later than 2030 and finding CCS stations will eventually become rare (just like Chademo is now)
Just to be safe everyone should sign and promote the old petition. It indirectly advertises Aptera and can put a final nail in CCS1. Let’s get it over 50k signatures. https://www.change.org/p/congress-tesla-superchargers-and-plugs-should-be-the-u-s-standard-for-evs
- This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by
Curtis Cibinel. Reason: Added meme
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WOW! The avalanche has & started & it appears that NACS won the charging connector war!
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My wife is cringing. Tesla Model 3 driver. Now must fight off all other EVs who will crowd the Tesla Fast Chargers. Sold my Model 3 and bought a Bolt as a stop gap until my Aptera becomes available. Now looks like I will be able to use the Tesla Fast Chargers too 😁
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It’s all over but the shouting. Should be an easy decision for Hyundai, Korea uses CCS1 not CCS2 and the Supercharger network in Korea uses NACS, I expect them next. Switching to NACS for Stellatis should be a no-brainer, they won’t have any EV in North America before 2025 so they have no sunk costs in CCS1. I would expect to see an announcement from EVGo pretty soon, it’s no loss of face for them because the added NACS support several years ago although it was in a tiny number of locations and only 50KW. Will Electrify America have the guts to switch, this is a huge embarrassment for them. If EA hadn’t made such a dog’s breakfast of their charging network this never would have happened.
<aJune 8, 2023 <script async=”” src=”https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js” charset=”utf-8″></script>
href="https://twitter.com/teardowntitan/status/1666912850743361536?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June
8, 2023
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Feeling delighted and smug about GM’s big news pic.twitter.com/9bpEILKuAn
— Sandy Munro (@teardowntitan) June 8, 2023
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Joshua Rosen. - This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by
Joshua Rosen.
Feeling delighted and smug about GM’s big news pic.twitter.com/9bpEILKuAn
— Sandy Munro (@teardowntitan) June 8, 2023
- This reply was modified 10 months, 2 weeks ago by
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GM jumping on board is the other shoe dropping. I must say, that was quite possibly the shortest format war I’ve ever witnessed.