Aptera range

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Aptera range

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Aptera range

  • Aptera range

  • Robert Swartwout

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 12:07 pm

    How much range per hour 110/120 volts?

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 12:11 pm

    12 amps is max sustained on a circuit so 1440w. That’s about 14 miles per hour. +- depending on battery weight, speed and charging efficiency.

  • BRUCE MENGLER

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 12:14 pm

    On a wall plug, Aptera said it could add about 150 miles of range overnight on a normal 120V wall plug. That works out to about 12 hours of charging, not accounting for losses. In 8 hours, and after charging losses of 10%, it works out to about 100 miles. For nearly all drivers, a wall plug will be enough even without solar charging.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      June 25, 2022 at 1:16 pm

      With my commute, and living in sunny FL, I will rely on solar charging alone. I live in a condo. If traveling of course will take advantage of chargers on the route whether CCS or Tesla depending on what Aptera chooses to equip Apterae with. I use Tesla chargers now with my Model 3. It will be nice to use solar and no to pay anything (Gas or electricity charges)

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  Jonah Jorgenson. Reason: corrected spelling
  • Michael Serrano

    Member
    July 23, 2022 at 7:30 am

    How will the AWD setup affect the range ? Will it still have the same range as the 2 wheel drive version?

  • Len Nowak

    Moderator
    July 23, 2022 at 7:43 am

    This has been in many threads…No official spec published, ro my knowledge…but 10% is what I am using and is the case with many AWD versions of smaller EVs. Since Aptera uses “in wheel motors” and is a more efficient in general.. I am hoping for less of a hit.

    • Qiang Fu

      Member
      July 23, 2022 at 9:15 am

      Don’t know enough of these motors. I assume the car is smart in distributing the power to the front and rear wheels to maximize efficiency? For example, most power to the single rear wheel when cruising on dry level pavement?

    • Mark Salyzyn

      Member
      July 23, 2022 at 6:58 pm

      All wheels need linked braking, I am sure it is part of their vector programming. I expect that the regen will be far more effective if the rear wheel opted for motor involvement, rather than friction material. So for city driving I expect Aptera will optimize and perhaps manage to reduce the efficiency loss by having a more effective regen overall? Highway driving not so much.

      (I asked this question to their engineers)

  • Selvan Poothamby

    Member
    July 23, 2022 at 7:46 am

    I think there’ll be an option to switch to fwd.

  • robert engelhart

    Member
    July 23, 2022 at 9:41 am

    Like people have stated, all permanent magnet motors will need minimum power to at least keep the wheels spinning freely at speed , that said the front wheels could provide 100% of the torque needed to accelerate driven at moderate speeds and the rear would simply supply enough power to basically release the magnetic forces. I would expect a 3-4% difference in range, “if driven moderately”. Problem is i drive my friends dual motor tesla and simply cant drive moderately, the acceleration on electric cars is so addicting.

    • Qiang Fu

      Member
      July 23, 2022 at 11:54 am

      Assuming the efficiency of these motors increases with load, after each wheel has its minimum power, the most efficient way is probably delivering the power to the single rear wheel first. Depending on the efficiency vs. load curve, there may be a cross-over region where the AWD can theoretically be more efficient than FWD. Pure speculation.

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  Qiang Fu.
  • Selvan Poothamby

    Member
    July 23, 2022 at 10:50 am

    It could me that if switched off, it’ll automatically manage itself.

    Just because it can’t be towed with wheel(s) on the ground doesn’t mean it can’t be driven.

  • V Pilot

    Member
    July 23, 2022 at 11:44 am

    From the Tesla club on freewheeling/towing. There’s quite a bit involved with the entire system regarding the direct PM motors. You can’t just disconnect them.

    https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/no-tow-mode-because-of-permanent-magnet-motor.124750/page-1

    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  V Pilot.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  V Pilot.
    • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by  V Pilot.
    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      July 23, 2022 at 12:39 pm

      I am not sure why you are not understanding these posts. The issue is with the permanent magnets in the wheel motors which can not be turned off. Please accept the posts on this thread trying to educate you that you can either have a front wheel or all wheel drive Aptera but you can not have an all wheel drive that you can configure to work as a front wheel drive. You get to pick which one you want depending on what you intend to use the Aptera for and/or where you will use it., but you can only have one or the other.

  • James Gatan

    Member
    July 23, 2022 at 1:48 pm

    Would the Full Solar panel option (up to 40mi/day added) render the range hit, a wash (whatever that % range penalty is) with AWD vs FWD?

  • Tim Dean

    Member
    July 23, 2022 at 2:56 pm

    Flat towing the Aptera would still require power. The wheel sensors could detect negative torque in forward motion (like regen) and balance that with power input from the batteries or solar array to match wheel speed. Balance algorithm is the key for flat towing. Doable? Sure. Me, I’d just buy a trailer so I could take more stuff with my Aptera. Emergency tow? Call a flat bed tow truck. Why? Murphy is an ass!

  • Steve Wanamaker

    Member
    July 24, 2022 at 8:44 am

    Those two spreadsheets give very different answers. Is there any indication from Aptera as to what speed the 100 Wh/mi is calculated at? This actually could affect choice of battery. For example, going by the rather pessimistic motormatchup link:

    The following ranges are for a road trip at 70 mph, FWD:

    25 kWh 155 mi (129 Wh/mi). Range using 80% of battery 124 mi, 1.77 hours at 70.

    40 kWh 248 mi (132 Wh/mi). Range using 80% of battery 198 mi, 2.8 hours at 70.

    60 kWh 356 mi (137 Wh/mi). Range using 80% of battery 285 mi, 4 hours at 70.

    So according to motormatchup you end up with 1/2 the stated range when you go at 70 mph and you use only 80% of the battery. I hope the 129-137 Wh/mi number turns out to be wrong in real life.

    I think it’s good to recognize that you aren’t going to want to (and probably can’t) regularly go a whole 250/400/600 miles on a charge.

    • Arlen Bell

      Member
      July 24, 2022 at 8:59 am

      Excellent point and why I feel the “600” mile option makes the most sense for longer trip travel. I’d like to see an adjustment for running A/C also — not concerned much about running heat.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      July 24, 2022 at 9:26 am

      This make sense from my experience with my Tesla Model 3 and should to all who actually think through mileage performance with any EV. Aptera is very efficient but not exempt from the laws of physics and this performance should always be incorporated into trip planning

    • Steve Wanamaker

      Member
      July 24, 2022 at 11:43 pm

      The kantor.gitlab.io page is much more optimistic. I’m pulling these numbers with a road trip in mind, so for 100% freeway at 70 mph. Added weight (you + cargo) = 350 (default).

      25 kWh 199 mi. Range using 80%: 160 mi, 2.28 hrs at 70.

      40 kWh 387 mi. Range using 80%: 310 mi, 4.42 hrs at 70.

      60 kWh 548 mi. Range using 80%: 438 mi, 6.26 hrs at 70.

      100 kWh 821 mi. Range using 80%: 657 mi, 9.38 hrs at 70.

      We need to have someone get these answers from Aptera:

      1. At what speed are the given battery ranges? They sell a “600 mile” battery, but at what speed?

      2. What is the Wh/mi at 70 mph?

      We are owed these answers because they are not selling a “60 Kwh”
      battery. They are selling a “600 mile” battery. Look at the Reserve
      Now page.

    • Bob Kirchner

      Member
      July 25, 2022 at 6:58 am

      I can remember one of the founders saying that the range & power consumption estimates were based on a simulation of the EPA highway test, which while more demanding for EVs than the EPA city cycle, still tops out at a fairly slow top speed.

      • John Voules

        Member
        July 25, 2022 at 7:21 am

        I also remember early last year that it was stated by Chris that mileage was based on highway speeds. This was the reason I was so excited about the range to begin with. It was stated that it was not based on 55mph but actual highway speeds of 70.

        My excitement was based on my experience of owning both an electric car and a Zero motorcycle and the huge penalty paid on speeds above 55mpg of my vehicles.

        Having an automobile that slips through the atmosphere in my reasoning, should help overall to limit energy consumption on the more battery draining 70+mph side of driving.

        I know that the engineers on this forum will hammer me on the formulas and equations that are based on truths and science, but my entrance to buying and investing was based on the highway usage of this vehicle.

        It would be nice for an APTERA rep to come out and make a statement on what their mileage cycle was or is based on. Certainly would help others across the board to make a final determination of what they truly need to order to accommodate their lifestyle.

  • Daniel Hughes

    Member
    July 24, 2022 at 10:37 pm

    The 60 kwh version has a claimed range of 600 miles

    and the 100 kwh hour version has a claimed range of 1000 miles.

    This post https://aptera.us/community/discussion/worth-the-weight-2/ says the 1000 mile version weights 400 pounds more.

    This post https://aptera.us/community/discussion/worth-the-weight-2/ says each 30 lb takes about a 1% hit in range.

    So with 400 pounds of extra weight we should expect a 13% loss in range. So it should have 870 miles of range not 1000.

    Something doesn’t add up here, is the 1000 mile pack actually larger than 100 kwh?

    Worth the Weight?

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    July 25, 2022 at 5:38 am

    The 1000 mile version only exists on the website, they haven’t built one yet. When they do they’ll determine the actual battery size. If they want to keep the 1000 mile goal vs the 100KWh goal, they’ll put in a > 100KWh battery. BTW the actual efficiency of the vehicle hasn’t been determined yet either, they only have simulations. It won’t be until they do the EPA tests that the range can be validated. They claim that they’ve improved the aerodynamics, but that might be just for the body. To meet government regulations they’ve had to add side view mirrors, that’s bad for aero. They haven’t released the final CoD or weight numbers, the ones on the website are old.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      July 25, 2022 at 8:57 am

      Supposition on your part as a nonelectrical/battery engineer. I don’t understand why you authoritatively state things that you have no information on. How about you reserve stating your opinion until Aptera publishes actual testing data.

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        July 25, 2022 at 11:10 am

        @Jonah Jorgenson d’accord – for all we know, all the published guesstimations might be based on the 1000 mile variant – and all the lesser variants will do better than expected. Perhaps the 45/41 (nominal/useable) kWh pack will provide 500 miles of range instead of the “advertised” 400 miles…

  • Cameron Eisner

    Member
    July 25, 2022 at 6:36 am

    I don’t really think we’re owed anything. We will get the info on the car when is ready to be released and then we get to decide if we want to buy it based on releases specs come time to purchase. Until then we are lucky to get the info we have and should be Patient for the info we don’t have yet. If when the info is released and you are displeased, you can get a longer range version to make up for it, or get a car from a different company.

    • Jonah Jorgenson

      Member
      July 25, 2022 at 8:51 am

      I think wise counsel Cameron. The real numbers will only be known when real world testing (Not engineering simulation) is complete on a production or near production vehicle and will most likely be different than advertise to this point, but hopefully close. No need to stress until that point as reservation configurations can be changed up to the last minute.

      And, as you have stated, if a reservation holder does not like the real world performance they can buy a different vehicle and get their reservation fee back

    • Steve Wanamaker

      Member
      August 5, 2022 at 8:39 am

      I mostly agree with this. I realized that I only have a reservation, not an order. There are many who are in line before me that will post their experiences, and I can alter my order when it comes up. I also realize that Aptera is still putting together their Gamma/Delta vehicles with the newer motors and motor control software. Those final cars will have whatever real life range they turn out to have. Everything is speculation until they test those cars. I do think they should be explicit about how they get their range figures. This thread has multiple people quoting speeds they think they thought they heard the range was tested at. We also have multiple spreadsheets that give very different numbers. This is unnecessary confusion that Aptera could clear up with a simple statement of how they get the range number.

  • Francis Giroux

    Member
    July 25, 2022 at 10:36 am

    Since the beginning, all the range numbers vs battery sizes were all based on 100 watt hours per mile which was based on 6000 watts at 60 mph.

  • Markus Schmid

    Member
    July 25, 2022 at 10:56 am

    Until now vehicle weight, air drag coefficient, motor efficiency, battery weight and battery capacity are approximate numbers while still improving. not even to imagine how “exact” a 1% loss per 30 pounds weight may be.

    My guess is thet the 1000 mile Aptera will rather go 1001 miles than just 999 when it will come to the test.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      July 25, 2022 at 11:18 am

      Here is my calculation sheet – feel free to make a copy and play with the numbers. Obviously some values are estimates but are roughly inline with similar assumptions from MotorMatchup and they have logical internal consistency.

      https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Tuu7avKH2dS_JPk7aiP2av09a1f1WE0OvvNH6fdHpiQ/edit#gid=1285203539

      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        July 25, 2022 at 11:28 am

        hmmmm…..don’t see anything here about a floor jack carried to change tires……

        • Selvan Poothamby

          Member
          August 5, 2022 at 9:13 am

          Probablya a can of inflate-a-flat, like I’ve been carrying in my ice for years.

          • Dennis Swaney

            Member
            August 5, 2022 at 9:59 am

            Which is fine for a small leak, but useless when a jagged piece of metal rips a hole in the sidewall. I’ll take even an emergency sized spare, thank you.

            • Selvan Poothamby

              Member
              August 5, 2022 at 11:23 am

              I’ve seen sidewalls repaired but it’ll require breaking at least one bead if not removing the whole tire. Meaning to say maybe you could by with just a repair kit.

      • Pistonboy Delux

        Member
        July 25, 2022 at 2:10 pm

        Gravitational constant ? !

  • Fanfare 100

    Member
    July 26, 2022 at 8:27 am

    My intuitive hunch is that 100kW of battery weights considerably more than 25kW of battery.

    That being the case, and with weight being inversely proportional to range, to maintain the same amount of range, I might expect for actual batteries to be something more like this:

    25kW = 250 miles
    44kW = 400 miles

    76kW = 600 miles

    126kW = 1,000 miles

    Does my pseudo-logic make sense?

    • V Pilot

      Member
      July 26, 2022 at 10:14 am

      I think the 44.928kWh battery size for the 400mi option was based on the 10mi/kWh range guesstimate with the all important buffer capacity added in for battery longevity purposes. I think all the battery sizes will take that into account plus what’s necessary to compensate for the pack weight to net as close as possible the stated ranges for the range options.

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by  V Pilot.
      • Jonah Jorgenson

        Member
        July 26, 2022 at 10:37 am

        👍

      • Dennis Swaney

        Member
        July 26, 2022 at 5:05 pm

        Interesting. I opted for the 400 mile Battery Range and the displayed Drive System is 100 kW on my Preorder page.

        • V Pilot

          Member
          July 26, 2022 at 6:20 pm

          That would be correct for the two wheel drive option regardless of battery choice.

  • Vernon SINNOTT

    Member
    July 26, 2022 at 9:25 am

    This really made me think. I drive about 8,000 km a year (22 km/ day) which converts to 14 miles per day. I just switched to the 25 kwh battery pack even though I will wait longer. I had initially selected the 40 kwh battery for early delivery preference.

  • Mark Singleton

    Member
    July 27, 2022 at 12:41 pm

    I pointed this out maybe half a year ago and I’m still in email chains with marketing people trying to get to the bottom of it.

    I was told that 10mile/kWh was what they anticipated their 1000 mile version would achieve. That’s obviously not true.

    Problem is they got funding etc with this claim

  • Leo Shapiro

    Member
    July 27, 2022 at 1:40 pm

    If they are testing components in isolation or in simulations it seems probable their estimates will be fairly inaccurate.

  • Michael Rohan

    Member
    July 27, 2022 at 7:19 pm

    I have had a similar concern for differences in potential daily accumulated solar range between the battery options. That 40 mile figure must also be variable between the options because of weight differences.

  • Harry Parker

    Moderator
    July 29, 2022 at 2:53 pm

    At one time, back when Aptera Motors was using Wefunder, Chris Anthony stated the 100 watts per mile figure was based on simulations of the 1000 mile version doing the EPA test cycle. So the lighter versions should do better than estimated.

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