Safety Pilot and Driver Assist features

[joe-lyddon]

Will the Auto Pilot feature, which I presume is primarily Software, be available to be added? Using Over the Air installations and updates?

If so, any idea of when it will be available? Cost?

Thank you,

Joe Lyddon

[kearn-m]

Auto pilot usually requires cameras, so I doubt it would be as simple as an OTA update.

[Ciscokid]

Sooo , no regular Cruise control on the LE other than Safety Pilot once it’s ready? That’s one of my most used features on any car I drive, to maintain some level of efficiency. I hope that I don’t have to keep my foot on the + pedal all the time!

[Biker]

Regular cruise control should part of a base/LE model.

[raymond-nettleton]

I only want to know one thing. Will the Aptera have a steering servo or a place to mount a steering servo? Braking and accelerating can be digital.

It appears that they will have clearvision sensor suite or ultrasonic sensors at the minimum or at lease spaces to mount them so future upgrades and adoption of many different features of FSD or autopilot systems should be possible.

[kloewerhotmail-com]

Just jumping in to say that, while the addition of DCFC to the Launch Edition was a major win for Aptera, the lack of clarity on the inclusion of an ADAS system is the main thing keeping me from switching my order to the LE. I’m not worried about ADAS in the long-term, because it seems like it’ll be easily added in follow-on cars. But I’m too spoiled by Tesla Autopilot to go back to a non-ADAS vehicle.

[wingsounds13]

My understanding is that today there is no ADAS system selected for Aptera. They are still researching systems to determine which one they will eventually use. Depending on how long it will take to get to production there may be one available that will be integrated into the vehicle. Word is that it is an easy add-on after the fact, described as replacing the rear view screen shell and plugging into the provided connections.

[jervia-fickens]

Can anyone tell me if the launch edition will have The Safety Pilot option available? After I switched my reservation to the Launch edition it offered me the option to add Safety Pilot upgrade, I want to add it but if its not available on the launch edition I don’t want to knock myself out of the launch edition parameters. Thanks for your help guys.

[wingsounds13]

The current status is that Safety Pilot may not be ready to be installed in the early Launch Edition vehicles. If you add Safety Pilot to your LE then you may take delivery without it but it can be added afterwards fairly easily.

[Doug]

In one of the recent videos, Steve alluded to the fact that, although Safety Pilot is not listed as part of the launch configuration, it might be included.

If it is not available on the first 2000 (accelerate program) vehicles, what would be involved in having it added later on?

Will adding Safety Pilot be only a software update or does it require some hardware also?

If hardware is required can it be installed by a local mechanic?

[wingsounds13]

In one video, one of them (Chris Anthony?) Said that installing Safety Pilot will be a fairly simple matter. Remove the regular rear-view screen module, plug the new Safety Pilot module into the existing wire harness and screw into place. Surely there will be a software update required too.

[john-young]

Safety Pilot will be a variation of the Comma 3

https://comma.ai/shop/comma-three

Its a San Diego company, is plug and play with any car that has active safety features and they’ve been testing it in their personal vehicles (none of the prototypes have active safety) Once they have a Delta/LE prototype they’ll pop one in and see how it works. If it works well they will make it an add on for LE/Accelerator. If it doesn’t it will be plug and play down the road once they work out the bugs.

[OZ.]

Aptera is pleased to announce that it will integrate openpilot™, the number one ranked driver assistance system by Consumer Reports, in its solar electric vehicles. This move will allow Aptera drivers to enjoy road trips with openpilot™’s advanced features including adaptive cruise control, lane centering, and forward collision warning. The driver monitoring system will ensure that drivers remain attentive while using the system.

Aptera is currently working on the details of how openpilot™ will be integrated into their vehicles. Several validation steps are planned to be completed leading up to the start of production of its Launch Edition vehicles. Aptera aims to deliver an openpilot™-capable vehicle and ship compatible hardware post-delivery to be installed by the customer in less than 30 minutes.

[jesse-spears]

Will the Aptera require the Comma hardware on top of what’s built into the Aptera?

That is, is this an add on, or is this what “Safety Pilot” is actually using?

[ROMAD]

Some questions:

1. How much more delay will this add to the start of production? Months or years?

2. Will it be part of the LE?

3. If it is included, can we disable/enable it at our discretion?

[Biker]

1. 0, it’s an option.

2. No, it’s an option.

3. It’s not included, it’s an option.

[kerbe2705]

This is exceptionally good news – and will put much speculation to rest!

[john-malcom]

Good to have confirmation for the expected provider of SafetyPilot functionality. A good choice I think based on reviews and anecdotal comments from colleagues that use openpilot on some of their vehicles. I see in the driving demonstration of openpilot, the openpilot hardware (display/processor) is installed under the review mirror. I hope in the final version, it will not be necessary to have that display installed there and that the driving/navigation function displays through the main infotainment monitor. Also interested in knowing where the cameras are that openpilot uses.

[christopher-barrett]

My question is: can the Launch Edition be upgraded to have safety pilot?

[Biker]

During the investor webinar two months ago Aptera mentioned that LE can be upgraded with Safety Pilot.

[Elzo]

Just a thought as I heard Tesla eventually has the intention to licence their Full Self Driving to other car companies. If Tesla would do this, would Aptereans be interested? Now it is still very expensive, but if millions of people driving other brands also could benefit from FSD, the price would go down significantly…

• This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  Elzo Stubbe. Reason: typing error
• This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[curtis-cibinel]

True viable FSD (no driver liability/control – works everywhere) inevitably kills the general idea of personal vehicle ownership entirely. I have no interest in paying $15k to beta test FSD. While clear progress is being made they will be chasing 9s and fighting legalisms for 20 years. I expect Aptera to be my first and only new vehicle.

[joshua-rosen]

I have FSD, it doesn’t work and it’s not close. Regular Autopilot is great, I love the situational awareness, it displays all of the vehicles around you, the proximity warnings work really well and the lane centering warnings work very well. But I’ve never been able to use FSD for more than a few minutes before it does something bad. Even when it works it’s annoying. They’ve made it much more cautious lately which in once sense is a good thing because it’s less likely to kill you but on the other hand riding in a car with a hesitant driver is disconcerting. My summary is that when it works it’s like driving with a 16 year old who has just gotten their learners permit, when it doesn’t work it’s like driving with a 16 year old who has gotten in to their parents liquor cabinet.

I don’t know when true Level 4 or 5 will become available but I suspect it’s years away. The sensor hardware is getting better every year and the software will eventually get there. Level 2, which is what we have now, is pretty useless. If you have to monitor everything the car does then it’s just easier to drive the car. Collision avoidance, which Autopilot does well, is a terrific safety advance. I’m not happy about Aptera’s choice of ADAS suppliers, I much rather they bought it from a major player.

[paul-carlucci]

I very much so look forward to Openpilot. I have a Tesla and Autopilot is… well Toyota’s is flat out better. There’s a bunch of ADAS vendors in the automotive supplier space and I have to believe a good number of them are a better driving experience than Teslas.

I can’t fathom why anybody would pay for FSD if they’ve lived with Autopilot for more than a couple weeks. It’s twitchy, naggy, and honestly just the adaptive cruise control component is pretty far behind even my Chrysler’s adaptive cruise. Other than the situational awareness display the whole system is simply worse.

And if Tesla FSD is a $15K software add-on to something that already has the physical hardware I can’t imagine what that would do to the price of an Aptera, especially since it’s already at an automatic $7500 price disadvantage versus the bottom end of the EV market.

Hard pass.

[craig-merrow]

I remember the Chris M video awhile back where he was demonstrating Open Pilot. I was very impressed with what I saw! My impression was/is that it’s a capable and well engineered system, and I hope to see it in n my own Aptera.

[Biker]

Comma released new hardware which may affect the integration with Aptera:

Geohot’s Comma AI Launches Comma 3X ADAS Hardware With Support for Over 250 Car Models – autoevolution

[john-malcom]

Thanks for this! Good information for Aptera forums! I think good for Aptera reservationist that elect for SafetyPilot as a larger memory, lower price, and simplified installation. Hopefully, Aptera is working closely with OpenPilot engineer, as Aptera has indicated, to make sure Aptera will be ready and compatible with Open Pilot when it comes time for OpenPilot to be made available on Apterae. I would expect after market deliveries begin, not at initial release to the market.

I installed OpenPilot on the Bolt I got this year. Very, very, pleasantly surprised using it! I think comparable with the ADAS I used in my Model 3. I think the OpenPilot method of “Training” (Using actual driver data to train to drive like drivers do) is superior to Cadillac’s approach of mapping roads and Tesla’s approach of using selected road video to train its AI. Also MUCH less than $15.000 to use full FSD.

[craig-merrow]

Still becoming more familiar/educated on these things; was installing Open Pilot just a matter of a software upgrade? Just curious how you go about it.

[Biker]

It takes both hardware and firmware to upgrade to Openpilot.

[ragu-singh]

After the recent announcement that Aptera will support out of box integration with OpenPilot, there was one more update from Chris on a youtuber video that the central console and the rear view mirror is also being changed. Requesting Aptera team design the rear view mirror such that the factory devices can be swapped with OpanPilot Comma device as easy as a snap-on. Thank you.

[kerbe2705]

@ragu-singh comma will most likely display on the center screen, not on the rearview screen.

[john-malcom]

Unless they have changed out the Aptera processor, it would not have enough horsepower to do its assigned control and display functions and the processing for OpenPilot. OpenPilot uses image processing which is very processor intensive. Additionally, it might require porting from its native hardware and software stack to that used in the Aptera computer and customization of the display interface. At first, I would expect Open Pilot to run on its Comma3X custom hardware in its first iteration. I have no idea if Aptera will adapt the code to use Aptera cameras since Aptera cameras are of a different architecture than the cameras use for OpenPilot. The quickest and cheapest would be to adapt the steering and braking to make it useable by OpenPilot and install Comma3X and load the software. We do know that Aptera is modifying the review display and space above it to make room for OpenPilot. At least initially.

Curtis Cibinel or Joshua Rosen have strong SW credentials and could provide a more technically accurate and authoritative response.

[curtis-cibinel]

Yep. Custom software work and upgrading the infotainment processor isn’t worthwhile or in keeping with Aptera’s modular and right to repair concepts. I would expect the Aptera OpenPilot option to be essentially a Comma 3X in a custom white plastic box to match the vehicle. Aptera needs to KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) and keep development costs down. Tighter integration is definitely possible and could be added eventually but their is no reason to make getting to production and shipping features more difficult.

[andrew-cauthen]

I do everything on an iPad (cellular/ gps) in my Prius, using my iPhone 12 mini as my modem. Definitely don’t want a display taking up space I can’t even do anything on/ un-upgradable, stuck in the middle of my Aptera.

Didn’t see it on the forums here, but Aptera console should only be an app that I can run on my own device, similar to the canoo.

Another thing is, comma 3x is allowing open pilot architecture total self driving level 2 at a reasonable price, and only getting better.

What do y’all think?

[john-malcom]

I have comma 3X on my Bolt and love it. The display is such a small form factor I don’t feel it is out of place or imposing. I came from a Tesla Model 3. I prefer the comma product. I have colleagues that are Fan Boys of Tesla and of the comma product. About evenly split. makes for lively conversation at lunch when the topic of ADAS comes up. All are nerdy engineers of one sort or other. All are familiar with GM’s Super Cruise product. They prefer it the least.

[rav_canada]

The configurator no longer considers the order a launch edition if Open Pilot is added and it may extend the delivery timeline.

Will there be a retrofit option to add OpenPilot to the Launch Edition after delivery?

Is it a DIY or does the vehicle have to come back to Aptera?

What is the ETA for OpenPilot?

[ROMAD]

Yes, they have designed the rear view camera screen unit to be upgraded or replaced by a future OpenPilot unit. It may even be a DIY job. No ETA other than sometime after initial deliveries.

[kerbe2705]

Do we know this for certain? Doing so would leave the vehicle without both a rearview image and a reversing image. I think there will be cabling in place to connect a comma 3x unit…

I’d like to think that, eventually, the SafetyPilot system will display on the center screen, next to the navigation window – similar to Tesla’s format.

[ROMAD]

It was mentioned in one of the videos from Aptera or AOC possibly when discussing the PI designs but I don’t recall which one.

[Mike-Mars]

> Do we know this for certain? Doing so would leave the vehicle without both a rearview image and a reversing image. I think there will be cabling in place to connect a comma 3x unit…

From what ChrisA said, it sounded like the retro-fittable CommaAI module would include the display, at the time I assumed it would show the commaAI routing as per the Comma 3, as well as the rearview/reversing images.

That was a while ago, and it sounded like the plan had not yet been fully finalised.

• This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by  Michael Marsden.