-
Add-on Solar Panels
I think that a simple and cost-effective accessory for Aptera would be a pair of full-size fold out solar panels in the trunk? These are not very expensive and would make a huge difference to the solar charging ability – probably more than doubling it; especially for customers like me in the UK where solar radiation is poor for half of the year.
- 66 Replies
-
Add-on Solar Panels
updated 6 days, 4 hours ago 25 Members · 66 Replies -
How do you plan on preventing the extra PV panels from walking away from the Aptera when it is parked & unattended? Realize that bolt cutters are more portable than PV panels.
-
I love Aptera’s mobile solar charge which would work “whenever the sun shines on it” Even when I I am on the move!
I am getting full solar
( I don’t think it can charge while under a rapid DC charge)
But for my wife’s EV ( Not an Aptera. ) I am investigating this product
As we need shade in the desert!
Of course adding a few more PV solar panels to my house array is less expensive
-
I support your idea, Martin. Yes, parking the Aptera and setting up the panels outside the vehicle would need to be done in a secure area. Nevertheless, there have been several mentions by Chris A. that Aptera would allow external panels to be connected. I assume it would be a MC4 outlet but we’ll have to wait and see.
-
Before plugging in, however, be sure to understand voltage, current and power limits. I’ve said it before. Magic smoke is difficult, at best, to put back in….
-
I wonder if Aptera would consider building an optional portable solar array in daisy-chainable modules which could be deployed next to parked vehicles (where they can be attached safely) and connected to the rear charge port to allow extended off-grid solar charging capacity.
If the solar cells were similar to the built in cells and the battery management system could sense their presence, this would make the solar-charging capability even better.
-
I think Chris commented on this in his interview with Steve from Aptera owners club about 4 months ago (part of his visit – bunch of videos on YouTube). I don’t recall how committal the answer was but I think most people are now expecting an mc4 port. I believe we even know got quoted the potential capacity in the electronics was something like 1200 or 1500w leaving plenty of room for external cells.
-
May I suggest working toward a future solution. A few years ago we invested in becoming grid independent with our home solar. We oversized it so we could charge or EVs without paying the increasing utility rates. We ow have two Teslas we charge from home solar (At different times of the day) and are not connected to the utility for any electrical power.
<font face=”inherit”>If you start now with a small system especially with the new government incentives you can </font>gradually<font face=”inherit”> grow until you are independent and your electicity for your home and your EV cost nothing.</font>
<font face=”inherit”>We have another incentive. We live in Florida and are occasionally subject to power failures do to hurricanes. I hate to admit, but we do gloat when the power is out for a few days following a hurricane, everything is on at our house and our neighbors houses are dark.</font>
-
Chris mentioned yesterday in his presentation at Fully Charged that they plan to offer external panels for camping/charging in remote areas. If memory serves, he said 1 kW.
-
Building your own portable panels will be a bit of trial and error. The benefit of having a DC to DC connection directly into the Aptera MPPT Solar Controller can be illustrated by checking out this dude’s setup.
https://youtu.be/fdexi5azaNEhttps://youtu.be/fdexi5azaNE
He has to go panel to solar controller to battery (for a buffer) back to Tesla charger which needs access to the outside of the vehicle. He also looses some in the DC to AC to DC conversion, all the connections, charge/discharge of his buffering battery, ect…
If Aptera really does give us an external port to plug 1,000 watts of solar into that would be just absolutely amazing.
-
In order to charge faster by 🌞 while the Aptera is parked, Extra External Solar Panel could help. Only a separat plug for the Panels would be needed. This is a small engineering challange, but a big advantage for a solar veicle 🌞
-
Yes, a socket for extra solar panels has been suggested and discussed before and the company has stated that one is in the plans. I have not heard whether it will be in the Launch Edition or not.
-
If I could have one extra thing, this would be it. They’ve said the solar controller has extra headroom to take another 1,000 watts but the last time it came up it sounded like having a MC4 or some other DC connection was not in the cards. However…i don’t know what the LOWER threshold of the NACS DC connection is. So you could come up with a Frankenstein MC4 (standard solar panel connector) to NACS.
-
Thanks, for the replays.
I was thinking, it is simple, because there are already panles and supplenetary ones coult be just connected in parallel to the existing. So only a Connector/Plug would be nedded to enter into the existing sircuit. But I dint know if the unit wehre the panels are connected can support more Watt. f.e. 1400W instead of only 700W would be duble and already grate 🙂
🌞🌞🌞🌞 we want more pure 🌞 energy
-
On a sunny day, one option/variation might be charging at 120v from a portable power station, such as the Ankar 767, which can accept up to 1000w of solar input.
-
Am not sure if engineering team Aptera looks into forum hence discussion point for all on the group. Given Aptera already has battery, is there any standalone portable size solar that has minimum storage to reduce cost and weight, that can be used to supplement charging Aptera , may be at home on weekends or say if traveling to a remote place.
Such a system would be consist of:
1. A fold-able solar panel set that fits flat on the Aptera flatbed
2. Small battery storage to stabilize output from the system, not for storage.
3. A charge controller with DC out to Aptera charge point, no inverters to reduce conversion losses.
4. Supplement solar with portable low noise blade-less wind turbine (used when parked).
Suggestions please
-
Others have earlier requested something similar and they’ve given that some thought. You won’t need (2) or (3) because your solar panels will be able to plug directly into the same solar charge controller and battery that comes in the Aptera. This is somethiing they have said they are working on including.
I doubt (4. a tiny portable wind turbine) makes much financial sense, unless you like to camp in very windy locations. You get a lot more energy for your money with solar panels.
-
-
Awhile back someone posted about Solar Botanic Trees, a company in the UK that is developing a standalone solar panel unit which doesn’t use large flat panels; it’s designed to be in the form of a tree. Their website is https://www.solarbotanictrees.com I wrote them and asked if they would have a distributor/franchisee in North America. I also told them about the Aptera an gave them the link.
I received a reply but could not find the original post about them here so I’m posting their reply here:
“Yes, we plan to sell the SolarBotanic Tree in North America from the end of 2024. We’ll be providing more information on our partners who will be acting as agents for sale in due course.
The Aperta solar vehicle looks like a great car, hope you enjoy it.”
So it looks like both their North America sales and Aptera’s planned deliveries will be close together.
-
I was thinking it would be cool to have an auxiliary port on the outside of the car to plug in
extra solar capacity. With the advent of 400 watt portables you could toss them out on
the ground to get more range while parked. You could also have a dedicated array at home
to charge without the losses of going through the charger.
What does everyone think?
-
Yes, and you’re not the first to express that thought.
An external solar charging port is in the plans and they mentioned the charging electronics will have enough headroom to handle at least another 700 watts of panels in addition to the 700 watts builtin. However I’m guessing that extra feature won’t make it into the Launch Edition. Perhaps some enterprising 3rd party will offer it as an add-on kit?
-
It would be great if a port were available or easily installed that would handle external solar. As an Accelerator to receive a launch edition I understand some desires might not make launch timelines. However, if we can upgrade we won’t be at a total loss for accepting the earlier launch edition.
I have portable solar panels for my camping battery pack. It would be great to supplement the Aptera with them when not needed for the external battery.
-
-
Considering the current timeline, I hope they can work this into the LEs. Id prefer MC-4, but would be happy with pigtails in the harness and termination TBD.
The ability to hookup auxiliary panels could be a life saver.
-
The real cool thing about the solar array is the electronics charge the vehicle while it is moving/running.
If what you say is so, you could plug another 700 watt power source into the solar circuitry it too could be used by the vehicle while in motion.
What if that connection into the solar array could accept an even higher level of power from this auxiliary source?
The reason I mention this is I plan to add a solar generator with about 1.5-2 kw of storage with the LE as this offers a portable power source great for camping. The one I have also has a couple of plug-ins for a solar panel and I’ve got one of the Harbor Freight briefcase 100watt panel.
In an emergency, it is obvious that I could plug in the EVSE to the generator’s 110volt outlet and get a charge while parked as I’m relatively sure being plugged in disables movement to avoid yanking cords off EVSE’s.
The unique opportunity would be if, instead of just another solar panel, you could plug another battery – even a small one – would give you a rather clever form of range extender.
It may seem a little like overkill but it would be cool in an emergency to grab a 12-volt batter and connect it directly to the solar ‘input’ and have it extend the range 10-30 miles while driving.
-
I’m glad somebody gets it. But also consider…DC-DC charging while rolling…at night. Could come in handy. Not expensive to implement.
-
Sorry no. Plugging a battery into solar charging port is likely to do damage.
If you read the instructions for solar chargers they often warn against it.The charger is trying to do MPPT (Max power point tracking) it expects PV.
Even if it worked a 40Ah 12V has under 500Wh so expect well under 5mi with losses.
Running the 12V flat is really bad for it (assuming lead/acid).-
I have a Bluetti AC200Max “solar generator”. It has a solar MPPT. When I hook up my solar panels to the DC input port it automatically “detects” that the charge source is solar and engages the MPPT. If I disconnect the solar panels and hook up a 12 volt lead acid battery instead and then go into the settings of the device and select DC input source to “others”, my 12 volt lead acid battery charges the Bluetti.
-
-
-
I like the idea of a solar panel that is mobile. Instead of covering the back window. When camping you can setup pointing at the sun. And I think it could be made bigger than the one on the back window maybe 750watts buy it’s self and Still fit in the back open to the sun or keep it at home to charge the car when it’s in the garage.
-
Oh this would have to be made by them!
-
I’m with you on this, Robert. I think Aptera offering auxiliary panels like you describe would be cool, but not likely to be something they do. There are already quite a few makers of portable, foldable panels in the marketplace.
Power can be had in smaller wattage outputs, but I’d think one or more 100w, 200w, or 400w panels would be great to supplement the built-in 700w charging capability. The 200w panels being sold can be combined in series or parallel configuration to suit Aptera’s auxiliary input restrictions. Of course, the key element is Aptera providing an outlet for accepting additional solar charging. As others have stated, this feature has been discussed, but not included in the LE.
-
Ray I would like to point out that solar panel voltage very from maker to maker and it all about the change controller a good one will make the battery last a long time a bad one can kill a battery. I don’t know what kind of controller they are going to use but I trust that it will be a smart controller a M.P.P.M. The panel will have to be compatible with the controller. And now I’m wondering what the voltage output is for there panels. Should be able to find after market with the same voltage and within the amperage maximum for the controller.
-
Yes, Robert. You are essentially correct. Any panel maker offers panels of various wattage and voltage. Typical portable panels are 100watts, 200, 400, or more. Every panel lists it’s voltage and amperage so a user can match output of that panel to the capacity of the solar charge controller to which it will be connected (in this case, what Aptera’s built-in solar charge controller is designed for).
-
-
-
-
I’ve been thinking more on what I would want for panels. I believe that a 350 watt would fit in the rear hatch area that would be 20 ml a day in full sun so if you had 5 that would fit in the back. You could do a Martian type cross country. How cool that would be. The car would truly be a solar car. I have a off grid solar system all glass panels I hate plastic panels. I love aptera’s solar panels. If there available when my car is my cross country trip just got a lot more exciting.
-
A solar road trip sounds great, Robert. We’ll have to wait to see if add-on panels can be connected and what the maximum input will be.
I hope something like the 350w panel you mentioned would work. I’ll be very surprised if Aptera will accommodate two or more 350w panels. You’re right, they should fit in the rear of the vehicle, but taking advantage of two or more at a time would mean the vehicle would need a larger capacity solar controller and thus, more cost added to the Aptera purchase price.
-
Hopefully Aptera’s MPPT charge controller supports “over-paneling”. See attached pdf.
-
Thank you for the very informative PDF, Alain. It pulls together several important concepts and presents them in an understandable manner.
-
I seem to recall ChrisA saying that the solar controller supports something like an extra 1kW, with external panels in mind during camping etc. This was some time ago (prior to the launch edition announcement) so may have changed.
- This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by
Michael Marsden.
-
I too have a vague memory of Chris A. saying the built-in solar charge controller could handle something like 1.5kw. I interpreted that as meaning, after deducting 700w for the built-in full solar configuration, we might be able to add another 700w via external panels.
Of course, nothing official has been declared so we’ll have to wait and see. Don’t believe the LE models support any external panels as of now. Does anyone know any different?
-
Like a few other things CA keeps saying, example; induction cooktop, I don’t think it will happen in the early vehicles. It would be wise to at least have pigtails in there for upgrade.
-
There aren’t any solar plugs for external arrays in the early LE (as of the last information from them), but I think it’s doubtful that they’d be using a different solar controller for the initial vehicles.
As I see it, either there’s headroom (the 1.5kW controller), or there won’t be headroom for the foreseeable (a year or two) future. If there’s headroom, then it should be possible to retrofit.
- This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by
Michael Marsden. - This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by
Michael Marsden.
- This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by
-
Even in a worse case scenario and we get a 700w controller with no connector it will still be possible to build custom panels with maxeon cells that emulate the stock solar panels than splice them directly into the on board controller.
I plan on putting the panels onto the roof of my garage so when the car is parked out of the sun it is actually getting closer to it max input per day.
-
FYI, remember that Aptera’s “700” watts is made up of 7 or so different “strings” of solar solar cells. Each with it’s own MPPT.
-
Interesting, Alain. I had assumed there would be one MPPT controller that all the cells would connect to. It would be interesting to see the wiring diagram. Probably not something Aptera will release to us.
-
Recall that MPPT stands for Maximum Power Point Tracker. Very simplistically, each differently oriented panel has a different maximum power point. If just one MPPT was used, most, if not all, of them would not be operating at their maximum power points. Consequently, to get more power, use more MPPT’s! (There is a limit, however…)
-
Alain, I need more education on how a MPPT controller is configured with X no. of solar cells. I note that my handy-dandy solar generator (a Bluetti AC180) has a single MPPT controller. I can connect 2, 200w portable solar panels wired in series (i.e. 400w with the same 9.92 amps as a single panel). So I’m confused by your point about multiple controllers.
-
When you connect your 2, 200w portable solar panels wired in series do you orient both of them to the sun in the same way? If so, no problem. One appropriately sized MPPT will do. If, however, you orient them differently from each other, it would be better (i.e., you’d get more total power) if each 200w panel had it’s own appropriately sized MPPT. I can walk you through a relatively simple test that you can do to demonstrate this idea.
- This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by
Alain Chuzel.
- This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by
-
Aha! Forgot that my panels are both flat and I orient them exactly the same (i.e. same angle toward the sun). In contrast, our trusty Aptera has each CELL angled at a slightly different angle from its neighboring cell. Now I understand why you mentioned many MPPT controllers. Happy to try the simple experiment you suggested, Alain. Thanks.
-
The simple experiment is to connect your 2 panels to your Bluetti 4 different ways and note the difference in power. Try to do this experiment reasonably quickly and when it’s cloudless.
First simply connect your two panels in series and connect them to your Bluetti. Aim the panels directly to the sun. Note the power into the Bluetti.
Second, simply rotate ONE of the panels about 60 degrees away from directly towards the sun. Note the power into the Bluetti.
Third, disconnect the rotated panel and connect just connect one panel (directly pointed to sun again) to the Bluetti. Note the power into the Bluetti.
Finally, rotate the connected panel about 60 degrees away from directly towards the sun. Note the power into the Bluetti.
Adding the two powers from the last two tests should result in a higher number than the second test.
I’m happy to explain what’s going on if it isn’t obvious to you.
-
Thanks, Alain. I have a good day to try this experiment — a cloudless day is forecasted and I have the spare time to do it.
-
Great! I look forward to hearing of your results.
-
Experiment complete.
Test #1 — two, 200w panels wired in series and BOTH directly facing the sun
Test #2 — two, 200w in series and ONE directly facing the sun, other 60 degrees off center
Test #3 — ONE, 200w panel directly facing the sun
Test #4 — ONE, 200w panel 60 degrees off center
Test #1 — Result: 280w
Test #2 — Result: 230w
Test #3 — Result: 135w
Test #4 — Result: 122w
You predicted the sum of test #3 & 4 (i.e. 257w) would be HIGHER than test #2 (i.e. 230w). In fact, my results confirm your hypothesis.
Now I’m at a loss to understand the results. Does this mean that the effect of ONE panel being at an odd angle when part of a series of panels has a dramatically negative effect on total output?
-
Now I’m at a loss to understand the results
It is the result I would expect – if panels are in series, the output of the other panels in the string is limited by the output of the worst panel in the string.
That’s why shading is so bad for solar output of a naively-designed rooftop array, shade on a single cell in a single panel affects all the other panels that are in series with it. Hence microinverters, optimisers, bypass diodes, etc, which all try to reduce the effect.
https://www.deegesolar.co.uk/solar_panels_shading
- This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by
Michael Marsden.
- This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by
-
Thanks, Mike. Appreciate the video also. I vaguely remember coming across the “shading of one panel in a series” effect but completely blanked on it.
-
If you have the hardware to connect the two panels in parallel, performing the same test will yield different results. Thanks for sharing your results Ray, and thanks to Alain for the easy to follow example so others may understand.
My Interpretation of Aptera’s comments are that that each of the seven charge controllers would be rated for ~300W. After seeing how small each of the controllers actually are, it would also be nice if some room for more is available for the expansion.
-
I’m a little surprised at the result of test 2 and 4. Are you sure you rotated them about 60 degrees? If you did, the rotated panels would have received about 1/2 the effective irradiance and hence only capable of about 50% of direct normal (because the cosine of 60 = 0.5).
-
Yes, panels were rotated as specified. The two “panels” were actually two portable folding units each of which consisted of 4 small hinged sections. Perhaps that might account for the numbers I got. That is, these were not two rigid flat glass panel solar panels.
I can try repeating the experiment tomorrow if we get decent sun and see if I get similar results.
-
If you do have another go at it, consider taking pictures of each set up.
-
Sure. I can take pictures and attach same.
-
Experiment No. 2 complete on a partially cloudy day.
Test #1 — two, 200w panels wired in series and BOTH directly facing the sun
Test #2 — two, 200w in series and ONE directly facing the sun, other 60 degrees off center
Test #3 — ONE, 200w panel directly facing the sun
Test #4 — ONE, 200w panel 60 degrees off center
Test #1 — Result: 220w
Test #2 — Result: 215w
Test #3 — Result: 147w
Test #4 — Result: 134w
You predicted the sum of test #3 & 4 (i.e. 281w) would be HIGHER than test #2 (i.e. 215w). In fact, my results confirm your hypothesis. Pictures are attached. The 60 degree offset was just my best guess. Didn’t pull out my trusty protractor.
-
I think the angle is the reason that the output from the tilted array is not lower – to my eyes that looks more like 35-40°. Remember that fully edge-on would be 90°, with no direct light on the array at all. 60° would have some light but quite a lot less than the straight panel.
∟ 0° versus ∠ 45° versus ⦟ 60° (angle relative to the sun coming from the left of the screen).
- This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by
Michael Marsden. - This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by
Michael Marsden. - This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by
Michael Marsden.
- This reply was modified 1 week, 1 day ago by
-
Might be the angle from which I took the photos, Mike. They were definitely more than 45 degrees offset.
-
Thanks Ray!
-
I would duplicate the configuration of the cells as they are one the car and feed each copied panel into each of their corresponding wires Into the charge controller. My only concern is what type of wiring and also the fact that the wiring would be considerably longer than stock having to run up to the roof.
-
I understand what you’re saying but you might be better off (i.e., more total power) if you simply built 7 flat panels each with the same number (as Aptera’s strings) of series connected Maxeon cells and “splice” those in. This all assumes Aptera’s MPPT’s can be “over paneled”. If they can’t, you’d want to disconnect Aptera’s and just use your flat panels.
- This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by
Alain Chuzel.
- This reply was modified 1 week, 4 days ago by
-
-
- This reply was modified 1 week, 5 days ago by
-
-
-
I have off grid solar my out back flex max can be paralleled with another.
Chris A mentioned that they planned to have an option for an additional 1500w in a recent video (were is my car) my guess is that they can simply parallel two solar controllers. This would make me more than happy.
My panel’s are glass. I do not like plastic panels long term they are not good. Seen system’s fried. All the parts in my home system are working together.
The only way I would connect my solar system to the aptera Is 110v
Or a system that is made by aptera with all the system control information in place from car to panels.
Call me over protective but this car is going to be my baby!
-
Generally one can parallel the OUTPUTS of two or more compatible controllers. That’s how the 7 on Aptera will be.
FYI, other than the solar cells, from the back to just under the glass top, your panels are plastic too.
-
-
I would also like to see the option of adding solar panels to the doors. When the doors are open they point at a good angle for solar charging.
-
I’d also like them on the doors, but I would have no intention of leaving them open for hours…
The reason is, that I am quite far north, and in winter, the midday sun is low on the horizon. The side facing the sun would get more light than the roof cells.
-
