Stellantis EV news

[craig-merrow]

<div>https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/the-real-reason-tesla-is-letting-rival-car-companies-use-its-ev-charging-stations/ar-AA1dvgsB?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=181cffcc0ce34e70b8c70c5d3372b39f&ei=21</div><div&gt;

Kind of related, but I never realized that Tesla also used their charging stations to gather data to monitor real world vehicle performance and usage.

</div>

[Shawgrin]

These articles are very interesting. After reading them Stellantis is 6 years away and uses larger batteries to get about half the mileage per pound of battery.

Tesla chargers gathering information works mostly as plus for customers. Sure they help Tesla learn how to earn more money, but it helps their R&D develop better & more efficient vehicles so there are better sales, quicker charging, other sales at charging stations. Having driven an EV for great distances, I have enjoyed the Tesla charging stations with Tesla shops on the property. We usually change drivers every 90 to 180 minutes of driving and the shops near the chargers are nice for stretching our legs.

[trevor-anderson]

I like that other markers are starting to compete with Aptera on price; I doubt a traditional marker will be able to compete on efficiency. To change so drastically would be a huge departure from the “Brand identity”. Look at Hyundai, where the exact same design language goes across their whole fleet even breaks into their genesis line a bit. Aptera’s identity will be hyper efficient vehicles and wont be bound to the Aptera shape just the ethos

[Nuugle42]

I believe as battery technologies make new advancements, Aptera’s claim of a 1000 mile range will become increasingly less impressive. That is why I believe that they should start emphasizing the ultimate efficiency of the Aptera. 350 MPGe is INCREDIBLE !!! THAT should be the selling point. I realize the average consumer doesn’t think in those terms, but with a little education, they will wake up to the facts.

[bryan-hendricks]

Respectfully (please don’t conclude that I am cranky or a troll), I’m not a fan of the MPGe metric. I have zero desire to continue framing transportation problems within the paradigm of conventional ICE vehicles. I don’t need to convert a gallon of gas to BTU, convert the BTU to an equivalent amount of battery energy (30 kwh), and then measure how far a car can travel on 30 kwh.

Respectfully, I am perfectly content to measure automobile efficiency via the number of watts per mile.

[harry-parker]

👆Exactly! Let’s educate the fossil fuel burners about the transportation efficiency metrics of the future, miles/KWH and KWH per 100km. “How many miles per KWH does that pickup truck get?” 🤓

[wingsounds13]

Or, better yet, how many Wh does that tank burn off for every mile it plows along. 🙂

[john-malcom]

Stellantis is planning to enter the2024 U.S. EV market with a low price EV with a range of 186 miles per charge. The model is currently sold in India. Currently, the lowest price U.S. EV is the Bolt EV with a price of $27,000 and a range of 259 mi/charge. With a $7,500 government subsidy, no competition! BUT, Bolt going away for a while after the end of this production year.

IF Stellantis can deliver in 2024, it will be the lowest price EV until the reresection of the Bolt or the arrival of the Tesla Model 2. Another family friendly (Passenger capacity and price) in the market

But we all know how reliable EV delivery schedules are….

https://news.yahoo.com/stellantis-shifts-high-gear-offering-050000202.html

• This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by  John Malcom.
• This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[Shawgrin]

May 8, 2023

Why is Stellantis falling?

Shockingly, part of what’s fueling the drop for Stellantis is weak Jeep sales. It wasn’t that long ago Jeep was one of the most envied brands in the industry, a shining star everyone wanted to emulate. Sales of Jeeps plummeted 20% for the quarter and hit a level the brand hasn’t seen in the past six years.

[john-malcom]

Good question. I didn’t realize sales had dropped so much. Thanks for the data point. Perhaps because of the arrival of the Bronco. Jeeps were always expensive and never had good reliability. But that does not account for a 20% drop since those have been Jeep characteristics for a long time.

[william-hester]

Perhaps you’re referring to specific Jeep models (looking at you, Wrangler), but as a data point, my 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee has over 254,000 miles on it, cranks every time, and purrs like a kitten. I’ve been told that the 4.0L inline 6 cyl engine in it will run just about forever as long as you feed it routine oil changes.

[john-malcom]

Yep, you are right. Thinking about Wrangler. Glad you have such a good experience with a Jeep product. But, it is an older model. Not sure the newer ones are built quite as well.

[Shawgrin]

William, a common failure of that I-6 are the manifold studs. Not to mention the amounts of HC & CO pollutants that are an issue. I worked for a Jeep specialty shop. I am glad you have gotten that kind of mileage but these engines never were designed to purr. They are a tractor motor made to be strong, compact & run under nearly any condition.

[former_fan]

Stellantis really packed on the profits recently but they are also late to the game with electrification so merely may have delayed the costs and will face reality soon.

Jeep’s only recent new model is on the top end of their line up and I have seen 100k prices on some of these; Grand Wagoneer. The Wrangler is one of those vehicles rarely cross shopped – but some of the other models are just not compelling versus the competition.

What a lot of people miss about the EV market is that there are already fifty plus models available to Americans to buy today and that number grows every year if not quarter. this will put a lot of pricing pressure on everyone across the industry and Tesla isn’t going to give many of them a chance and if the Chinese arrive to the US just look out; they have already displaced the legacy three in Mexico and Central America

[Shawgrin]

As Auto Workers Contract Talks Heat Up, Stellantis Threatens to Move South

https://prospect.org/labor/2023-09-07-auto-workers-contract-talks-stellantis-threatens-move-south/

separate article

MILAN, Sept 7 (Reuters) – Carmaker Stellantis (STLAM.MI) believes internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles could be on the road until 2050, making it necessary to contain their carbon emissions until they’re finally replaced by fully electric ones.

The world’s third-largest carmaker by sales, whose brands include Fiat, Peugeot and Jeep, said this week tests it ran with Saudi oil giant Aramco (2222.SE) showed 24 types of internal combustion engines in European vehicles it produced since 2014 can use advanced e-fuels without modification.

Stellantis has reaffirmed its commitment to all new car sales in Europe being battery-electric by 2030, although the European Union has excluded cars that run on e-fuels from its 2035 deadline to phase out new carbon dioxide-emitting cars.

Many of the new ICE vehicles being sold by Stellantis between now and 2029 would still be on the roads in more than two decades, Christian Mueller, Stellantis’ Senior Vice President, Propulsion Systems for the EMEA region said on Thursday.

“We have to really take care about our inventory fleet,” he said, adding that the long lifespan of cars made the development of synthetic e-fuels, which are produced with renewable energy, more important.

“I think 25% of our vehicles are still in use after 20 years. Hence, this kind of exposure time to e-fuels is considerable, very considerable,” he told a briefing.

Stellantis estimates that its engine types identified as compatible with e-fuels represent about 28 million vehicles on the roads in Europe, with a potential CO2 emission reduction in the region of up to 400 million metric tons between 2025 and 2050.

Many sceptics however point out e-fuels are not a viable alternative in the short time, due to their low availability and high costs.

Aramco’s Transport Chief Technologist Amer Amer said production of e-fuels was expected to start in early 2025 from the group’s two demonstration plants in Saudi Arabia and Spain.

Stellantis and Aramco executives said e-fuel availability was expected to increase and their prices to go down, also thanks to favourable taxation in the European Union, “in the future”, but without providing more specific predictions.

Reporting by Giulio Piovaccari Editing by Keith Weir

[john-malcom]

Thanks for bringing multiple reports together for us

[paul-kirchner]

If Fiat, AKA Stellantis, decides to bring the totally redone Fiat E over to the US, I may have to go to that over the Aptera. The Fiat is a much better fit for me, living in a densely populated city with the constant need to find small parking spaces.

The Aptera with it’s brutally large size would be an adjustment.

Or maybe get both?

• This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  Paul Kirchner.

[john-malcom]

I know you are a strong supporter of Aptera. However, it is important to always keep your options open and compare the value proposition of any current and near term alternatives to your own use cases. I hope you find that Aptera fits in for you.

[joshua-rosen]

If you live in a city where do you charge your car? If I lived in a city and had to rely on finding a parking spot I wouldn’t own a car. In grad school I lived on far North side of Chicago, I frequently had to drive to my parent’s house on the South side to park because there were no spots in my neighborhood. I wouldn’t want to repeat that experience.

[paul-kirchner]

We live and work in an old warehouse in an (post)industrial area of Oakland. We can drive inside the building to charge, we always park on the street though.

The rest of the life of the car is spent navigating and parking in streets of downtown San Francisco and Oakland, thus the desire for a nimble car.

[joshua-rosen]

That’s for the explanation. I get why you would want a small car, If I was in your shoes I’d want a tiny car too.

[UnidentifiedDrivingObject]

Well, your wish was granted. I think in regards to price, weight and battery pack size, this is the closest competitor currently, to our Aptera.

https://www.fiatusa.com/500e.html

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a60470347/2024-fiat-500e-drive-review/

[d-klein]

Fiat 500E. $34,000 starting price, 144 mile range.

Nope.

[john-malcom]

Stellantis announced that it is in the black on EV sales in the U.S. and Europe while Ford and GM are bleeding billions of loses on their EV sales and cutting back on Production with profitability forecasted no sooner then mid 2020’s.

Aptera enthusiasts TAKE NOTE: reason for performance “Controlling costs”

Article worth a read as there are other interesting facts there. A few, Stellantis is now number 2 behind Tesla in sales of EV’s in China. Stellantis will buy components from Chinese manufacturer to save cost of manufacturing. Stellantis is gearing up to compete with low cost Chinese EVs sod in Europe, and finally, Stellantis has a Citroen RV product at the 25K level.

[harry-parker]

John, Sounds interesting. Please post a link to that article if you got it. Thanks.

[john-malcom]

Sorry. Here is one. I will try to find the one I referenced and add it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qWULyu4FlA

And another. The one I first referenced requires a subscription to read.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/chrysler/2023/12/06/stellantis-ceo-carlos-tavares-golman-sachs-companies-losing-money-evs-darwinian/71822453007/

• This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by  John Malcom. Reason: added additional response

[craig-merrow]

Stellantis always seems (to me, anyway) to be under the radar in contrast to Ford and GM, so it was a pleasant surprise to hear that they are doing very well in the EV market.

[john-malcom]

Agree. when Chrysler went bankrupt, then was bought by Mercedes, then migrated to Stellantis, people discounted them and stopped tracking them. Looks like a mistake since they have solved the equation of profitable, low cost EV manufacturing. Not a mystery, “Control costs”. There claim that the market needs a 25K EV is bad news for all manufacturers to include Aptera. They are giving Tesla a run for the money in Europe and will have a vehicle to compete with Tesla bot in the US and Europe. Caught Ford and GM by surprise as well.