Side and rear view mirrors/cameras

[curtis-cibinel]

Fair point. The center mirror is already a camera system so no apparent reason it would need to be up-right from the driver. The original alpha plan was 4 displays. They cut one with the display behind the yoke (might need to be a hair larger if doing triple duty). Given the autocycle designation they likely can get away with it. Having only the 2 displays would cut costs both in materials, assembly and cabling.

[kerbe2705]

Interesting – a wide, panoramic “CinemaScope” view of the sides and rear of the vehicle!

With the already-mentioned facial tracking, the display could dim itself when it wasn’t being directly observed – which would be VERY cool – and much less visually distracting.

[gary-mclaughlin]

My pre-order includes the full solar package, and I am concerned with rear visibility when driving in the Winter. I have not owned a vehicle with a rearview camera, but I’ve been in plenty that have one and their lenses inevitably offer no visibility due to winter road splatter.

[p-m]

Aptera is required to include side mirrors, but do those mirrors have to be outside the body? If side mirrors were mounted inside the windows, they would probably provide sufficient visibility. After all, most people incorrectly aim their mirrors too far inward, so that they can see the side of the car, causing big blind spots. Mirrors that are aimed further out will probably be aimed more safely: the inside mounting won’t necessarily compromise safety.

Inside mirrors:

* no aerodynamic drag, no noise

* meets legal mirror requirement, I assume

* better aiming

* Aim mirror without opening the window or pushing buttons

* no need to remove mirrors when the law is changed to allow camera-based side mirrors.

* Manual backup in case camera or display fails.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  P M.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[rupert-jung]

That’s actually a good question, that would not make any sense, but the law also doesn’t.

BTW: Is it possible to just dismount the unnecessary mirrors in countries where cameras are allowed as replacements (e. g. Germany)?

[chris-hale]

Given that there are cameras for the side rear view mirrors are there still any blind spots. If so, will there be any blind spot monitors for the side view mirrors?

[wingsounds13]

I would speculate that there is at least 180° coverage across the side view cameras and maybe 120° coverage from the rear view camera.

What I would like to see is a single 180° synthetic rear-facing view composed from the three rear facing cameras.

[kerbe2705]

@Chris Hale The images we’ve seen of the side-view screen appear to show a 45° image: Straight out from the door and along the side of the body. This would equate to no blind spot.

We know that there will be some ultrasonic sensors on the vehicle to help with parking but we’ve not heard of anything else.

[josh-tom]

I know this is a very minimal thing, but I’ve used a few of the over the mirror style rear view cameras in the past and theres an issue with driving at night where the headlights have quite a bit of glare making it difficult to see especially as a car with high beams comes up close. It’s still usable but drastically diminishes your view at night. I can usually make up for any losses using my side view mirrors more, but from the looks of the current side mirrors on the Aptera, I don’t know if that will be a good alternative either.

Does anyone know if this is something that can be addressed, or is it possible I am just using cheaper cameras/displays and better, more expensive, ones don’t have this issue? I’ve seen a lot of cameras on Amazon suggest they have an anti glare monitor, but I think that refers to the glare on the actual screen from exterior light, not glare coming from headlights in the display.

Has anyone had experience with any rear view mirror replacement cameras that don’t have this issue?

[john-malcom]

We won’t know that information until Aptera publishes the detailed LE specifications when validation and safety testing is completed and defects are remediated. I am fairly confident that anything to do with vision affecting safety will be well engineered, sourced, and tested.

[wingsounds13]

This issue is mostly a camera thing. There are cameras available that handle wide dynamic range very well. I’ve been flying drones for several years and many of the cameras currently in use do not have a problem with bright lights. With my goggles on (dark viewing environment with displays millimeters in front of my eyes) facing toward the sun is not an issue. Yes, the sun is a bright spot, but not blinding and there is still detail in the shadows. Many of the cameras used in drones are based on rear-view / backup cameras from the automotive industry. I know that this can be done, the only question is what quality of camera Aptera chooses for production.

Surely the screen brightness will track ambient lighting, managing the other concern that I have about screen glare at night.

[paul-kirchner]

I had to pick some lumber up today which in the Fiat 500, necessitated poking it out the rear with the rear hatch opened up aways.

I could still use the rear view mirror a bit but that got me thinking about the rear camera on the Aptera being mounted on the rear hatch and what that view would have been.

If the camera being pointed up a little, would it still show the road behind and if it did would it be disorienting on the display? A rear view mirror you can adjust for different situations. Can that be done on the Aptera?

[john-malcom]

I think a sky camera or star tracker camera at night. It will be interesting to see how Aptera addresses this.

[UnidentifiedDrivingObject]

Not sure if this was discussed before. As my preferred side mirror angle reflects (pun) that of the Blind Zone Elimination angle setting (outward side mirror angle; only a sliver of the car’s side is visible). Will these vestigial side mirror pod cameras be angle adjustable?

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  bbelcamino.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[paul-schultz]

The adjustment could be handled digitally. The camera may have a viewing angle greater than what is needed. In other implementations, the view on a display can be a portion of the full view that is then enlarged to fill the screen.

[curtis-cibinel]

It shouldn’t be necessary since your head position isn’t relevant and they should be well positioned to see what is important for everyone. A single static position is simpler.

[UnidentifiedDrivingObject]

If the camera angle is static, that does not bode well for my use case. When I back up, I usually adjust manually the side mirror (camera in this case) angle, to see how far or close I am to a street curb and/or when I align to a parking spot in reverse/front end facing out.

With the NACS at the rear butt end of Aptera, you’d obvious do alot of reverse parking to face the charging station (or a Supercharger). If the side camera angles are static, how can you see both your lower rear corners while backing up?

[Mike-Mars]

We know that the reversing camera is wide angle and positioned lower than the rear-view camera. What we don’t know is how much pan and zoom there is available on the other cameras.

[charles-anthony-anthony]

Apter-ites! OK it has been decreed that the Aptera will have “X” number of cameras with a lens to them. SO the question- has anyone a Clew or even a Guess, as to how these lenses will be kept useable when there is foul weather? And spare me the old lie-“aero dynamics will be the savior of thee; it keeps the lens clean’. NOPE never happen, GI! I have had two EVs with the same Lie and this ‘hat trick’ does NOT work. Rain and backing into a shed or “X” all you see are blobs. Road Muck, ice &tc and the lens is worthless.

Car makers seem to LOVE to put these as close to the ground as possible. At least one Chi Com EV has the back up camera lens in the roof top ‘shark fin’ antenna. That at least makes more sense than putting it 02 feet above the road muck.

If “Chris” of former Maine Fame is reading this- any inside clews for us? Or is this another secret like the closed solar plant- just recently exposed to all.

[john-malcom]

The Solution is left up to us. We don’t always need to have someone else solve a problem for us. My solution, a bottle of glass cleaner, a paper towel, and tenacity

[kerbe2705]

@charles-anthony-anthony So far as we know, Aptera will have five cameras: One forward-facing (behind the windshield), 2 side-view (on both doors), one rear-view (at the top of the rear hatch) and one reversing (below the charge port).

My PHEV has only three cameras: One forward-facing (behind the windshield), one side-view (on the front passenger side door – below the mirror) and one reversing (above and to the side of the license plate). The only time any of them have been occluded has been when the vehicle has been parked in sideways-falling downpour – and the airflow over the body has them clean within a few yards of driving. Same goes for the rear window: Rain, snow whatever blows off almost instantly.

[JRWiley]

Aptera used to describe the side mirrors as being engineered to be easily removed once the requirement for physical mirrors is dropped, making rear view side cameras legal.. I have asked Aptera several times to show us a rendering of the Delta with side cameras only and whether or not the mirrors will be removable by the owner. So far, the question has been totally ignored. Does anyone know the status of removable mirrors?

[Elzo]

The goal should be to get rid of side mirrors forever and to get rid of this rediculous US legislation… On the other hand, in Europe we have the rediculous max. 2 meter width rule for three wheelers. Another one to get rid of forever….

[JRWiley]

@Jeff – of course you wouldn’t want to ditch the cameras. Back when CA was talking about how the current law on mirrors would require side mirrors, their plan was to engineer the mirror so it could be easily removed by the owner while leaving the camera in place.

[cm-de-hond]

side-mirror-cameras in wheel-covers possible?

Dear fellow Aptera admirers,

No clue if this has been proposed/considered already.

I guess there will be some disadvantages/obstacles when mounting camera-side-mirrors at the top rear end of the wheel covers but I guess it could improve the drag coefficient significantly. Also the design would be even more attractive.

Considering the often claimed considerable negative influence on “normal” cars, the influence in case of “our” Aptera would be about double this influence (in drag coefficient).

Of course the position of the camera will be a bit lower and it needs some kind of wide angle cameras and adaptive image software to adapt the image to the wheel angle but nowadays I guess its peanuts to design this.

What do you think? considering our goal to “get the most of our electrons”.

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[paul-evans]

That’s been suggested but considered impractical because the wheels (thus the pants) are constantly moving from road variations and steering inputs. When the mirror requirements are finally eliminated, the mirrors can be removed and replaced by an airfoil-shaped stalk that has the camera mounted at its end.

[ROMAD]

The camera is already mounted in the base housing. The physical mirrors that stick out cause a lot of drag so they won’t be putting the camera out there. Most likely there will be a small cap to replace the mirror portion which will cut down on the drag.

[edward-matejowsky]

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is that older drivers are likely to find an overhead digital rear-view problematic. I can see the road ahead and rear-view mirror image clearly without glasses but at night the instruments need one diopter of correction.
For the instrument panel half glasses, bifocals or progressive glasses should do the trick but this won’t work for a screen at the top of the windscreen.
I would prefer a real mirror and glass in the hatch.

However at night you don’t see much detail in the rear-view anyway. Maybe blurry lights is enough.

[Shawgrin]

I have bifocals and just tilt my head for a moment to look at items out of my normal view range. I am farsighted. If it becomes an issue, I could see relocating the rear view mirror just above the side views on the dash. If the center console is programmable, I could set up momentary view on the center display just to glimpse the rear mirror view.