curtis-cibinel
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After spending about half an hour in the experience Aptera VR experience (highly recommended BTW) I am absolutely convinced a camera pointed down at the right side wheel pant will be essential for parallel parking (and helpful for being centered in normal spaces). The display could be mounted under the normal Aptera display and shouldn’t interfere with either phones or cups. The best camera location would be a wide angle camera mounted in the passenger side fixed window (black 3d printed mount should be quite discreet).https://experienceaptera.com/xr-picker.html
Approximate camera view would make seeing curbs and parking lines pretty clear. I couldn’t get it perfect with PC based viewers even with downloading the glb files but it should give an idea.
Love the the amazing models and VR experience – https://experienceaptera.com/xr-picker.html
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Assuming your not traveling with a passenger definitely. If you are then the clearance near the seats is relevant and is likely fairly similar to a typical car with the seats folded.
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Lot of canadian provinces have the same issue and Alberta even needs a motorcycle license. I’m in BC which as far as i know is the only province with no license, helmet or online sale issues.
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Aptera is both lighter and more aerodynamic than other vehicles. When compared to a model 3 (or almost any vehicle), Aptera will use far less energy due to both advantages however as a percentage Aptera will degrade with speed more than other vehicles because it’s weight advantage is ~2x and the drag coefficient advantage (0.13 vs 0.23) is ~1.75x. It is also reasonable to assume Aptera will have less rolling resistance than similar weight 4 wheel vehicles due to less contact area but the impact is hard to quantify (it is not simply 3/4 as much). My calculations are based on some assumptions for specific constants but this trend is quite clear. The flip side to this is that Aptera has potential to have absolutely absurd range at lower speeds (especially if auxiliary losses like computers/screens/hvac is low).
As you speed up the amount of energy lost getting air out of the way increases to about 80.6% of the 413 newtons for the Aptera at 100mph but for a model 3 it is 77.5% of the 790 newtons. Aptera will always use far less energy but as a percentage of its total energy use Aptera actually uses more on aerodynamic drag. If using the offroad package the aerodynamic losses would increase and this effect would be even worse at high speeds.
Note: Please make a copy if you want to try different constants. I have accounted for most major sources of energy use the the sheet can be used to model any vehicle.
Note: The graphs below are based on an older version of my calculations with slightly different constants but the trend is the same.
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At Raj’s suggestion (Thanks 😉), I did up some pre-supported Apteras (Apteria?) in 14 sizes from 0.5 – 7 inches in length. Now super easy to print your own at any size.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6305343
PS: Also available as a keychain… https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6399795
PSS: Also available as a wine bottle opener… https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5922736
PSS(S?): If anyone with an FDM printer wants to provide pre-supported files for that style of printer please contact me and I’ll put it all together in the same posting.
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For anyone that wants to always keep a little Aptera with you here is a keychain model. I made 3 sizes and with a good resin most of the details should be visible at any of the sizes. Fo the picture I ink’d the model to make the details clearer because resin is a very mat finish. I embossed the Aptera logo on the bottom and modified the mirrors/wheel pods substantially so it is far less likely to break even with the abuse keychains take. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6399795
PS: If anyone with an FDM printer wants to attempt it (probably 2.5 inch) please let me know how it goes and if you have a setup that works I will post those files with it.
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Great stuff. Aptera supporters across the country seeing the vehicle and getting a lot of real world usage would be amazing.
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A tesla even if driving lots of miles makes sense. At 28k miles / yr you are driving about 5x+ what I do so even a vehicle kept for 3 years is justified. I do question why a model Y vs 3. If you can wait a few months for a model 3 refresh it will hold far more value used. Aptera is a great vehicle especially for long distances but unless you are high on the reservation list expect 3+ years more wait and get what you need for now. Tesla makes good vehicles and I wont say they don’t have flaws but if you want something new and good resale they make legacy look pretty bad (especially with recent anti-EV attitudes).
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Chris McCammon confirmed on the AOC discord that it is telescopic w/ tilt a few hours ago. Unfortunate that the official forum doesn’t get as much attention from Aptera staff to clarify these things but I suppose the reason is that Steve, Tailosive and others use the discord and will get the information out.
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Anyone else feel the horn and up/down buttons on the yoke are a stylistic knockoff of the tesla “balls” and don’t really provide enough functionality. I understand keeping the visual minimal but functionally these don’t provide much. Their is a reasonable safety argument to be made about keeping more things accessible without taking your hand off the yoke or looking at a screen is beneficial.
In past interviews (over a year ago) I believe Chris mentioned openening up the CAN bus APIs; this would allow those motivated to do so to make physical buttons using little more than an arduino, a $5 can bus board and a 3d printer. I hope this does happen and given the general openness of the company I expect it probably will.
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A fixed window would be a simple, lightweight and cheap solution to that but it would be controversial.
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100%
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A 160 character sms text limit using gsm-7 can be used to senvd 131 bytes (128 in practice) of encoded characters (with 7 bytes needed for a binary mode header). They can use symmetric encryption and easily fit any needed control of informational messages. Bluetooth can be used to setup the keys.
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As these cells become more available I definitely look forward to digging into the specs. 150% more range with only 70% more cell volume (assuming no additional modules are added such as behind the seats) would be an amazing energy density advancement. The alternative is that the 600/1000 may be less absurdly long range but we will need to wait and see. I have looked for 2190/21900 and 21120/211200 specs on many occasions without any luck.
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I think his point is that the solar will no longer be optional and we will have a higher base price to reflect this option being mandatory. I expect the sonar hood will similarly be mandatory to reduce options.
Options ad a lot of cost. Custom interior colors also seems a logical cut. Exterior wrap is potentially fairly high profit and low work vs other options which have more complex supply.
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The r3 visual is extremely basic and off-putting. For comparison this is a 2004 Pontiac vibe which is now 20 years old and has similar utilitarian functionality/size (I drive one for 8 years) . I get they don’t want to overalls or poach people from higher models but it is just a very basic box and they didn’t even include rails.
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One less strongly anti-“right to repair” EV maker. Probably a good thing.
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Overall Canadian ev sales was 9.4% vs 7.7% for the USA in 2022. California is the current top dog but bc and Quebec are close behind (bc was #1 per capita until the inflation reduction act). Last month I was in Vancouver and went to a t&t supermarket and 60% of vehicles were teslas (specific areas of Vancouver drive lots of our numbers).
Ps: icbc wrote off a ionic 5 due to Hyundai wanting 60k to replace a pack with damage to the cooling plate. Dealers are the issue. Hyundai corporate got word and paid for it because the dealer was stupid and put new policies to object their review for all pack repair estimates.
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To be clear I have no background in computational fluid dynamics nor was it needed for this. These are simply physics equations made into a spreadsheet (literally the same one Aptera printed on a shirt); I just added more details to address losses and make the numbers easier to work with (ie cell level specs for the batteries).
I would avoid assuming the numbers are 100% accurate as some values are estimated. If some values are high and others are low the final range could be reasonably considered to be +-10% with reasonable certainty. That said the calculations can definitely show trends and potential of the design.
- Rolling friction – Aptera will have low rolling resistance tires and less contact area due to 3 wheels. I assume they will have good but not unprecedented rolling resistance at 0.0085. Tires are available rated for 0.007 and typical car tires are 0.01 to 0.012.
- Weight: We dont know the exact weight of the aptera beyond statements and trying to make the other information fit. I am using just under 2000lb (1537 for the vehicle and 455 for the battery).
- Frontal Area: Tailosive did a recent video on the aptera and he concluded a ~21.7 square foot frontal area where my numbers are based on 23 (I measured 22.7 and rounded up). We have never had an officially stated spec for this but given the 3d printing model or photos and analysis I think 21-23 square feet is a safe bet.
- Drag Coefficient: We know Aptera has repeatedly stated they will have 0.13 drag coefficient but given the need to keep mirrors (bloody NHTSA) and ability for small manufacturing differences like panel gaps to impact this I consider it optimistic in the real world.
- Aux Drain. All EVs draw some power for computers and screens regardless of motion. I assumed this value as 200w which may be high but we simply dont know. All the controllers, cameras, thermal management etc need power. Other simulation sites like motor matchup dont even allow this to be set under 500w. Increasing this value higher can simulate the impact of HVAC systems for different temperatures but the exact draw under different conditions is tough to know.
- Battery Size: For the LE we know the pack will consist of 6 modules of 416 cells. Assuming they are commodity 55e cells from EVE exact specs are available and used in the model
- Battery Reserve: All EVs reserve a small percentage of the battery to obscure degradation and avoid going to absolute zero which can damage the battery. I assumed this as 4% for the LE. What we dont know is the amount of weight for the structure and bus bars in the battery but given claims about being very efficient I used a 20% estimate (arguably too optimistic).
- Inverter/Drivetrain losses: Aptera needs to get the energy from the wheels to the motors. I believe Steve F stated in the past they will not be using highest performance inverters (I forgot the term) due to cost (very reasonable given the intended market). I used a somewhat conservative 85% for this (actual powertrain losses vary with speed – Elaphe has some nice graphs)
Trying to make the data fit for the various models given available information on the battery sizes does not align to the stated ranges. The LE looks likely to over perform if the same conditions are applied to all the stated battery sizes (23,45,66,99 kwh)
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Absolutely amazing update.
If you want to push wrap visualization even further it would be really cool to see some color shift wraps, chrome/rainbow, carbon fiber etc. When my stock wrap is ready to be replaced I’m thinking either flexishield galaxy (approx #7936ab / #104094) or pine green (approx #083318 / #060709);
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Yep. I much prefer anyone looking up Aptera because of my vehicle to have a chance of providing me a referral 😉. Simply having the name doesn’t have this impact. I can definitely see some early Aptera owners setting up QR codes and business cards as questions are inevitable.
PS: Aptera on the wheel pants as above looks terrible (fine for an event – not for the production vehicle). If they do put Aptera on the vehicle Raj’s options are reasonable.
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Assuming they can stick to current pricing and you don’t need AWD then 400 mi MIGHT be under $30k US. For me $2500 more for AWD is a no brainer. TBD when final pricing and definitely unfortunate complication with IRA and state incentive uncertainty. Aptera actually makes far more sense in canada since our incentives suck by comparison anyway 😉 #ApteraForBC
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Absolutely amazing update. PS: Who did you contact at Aptera; I would love to get similar raw models (or yours) to make a segmented printable model with all possible details for resin.
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Definitely similar. Again this vehicle makes a lot of some sense in european cities or modified as a golf cart; definitely not an all purpose vehicle. It is simple and cheap.
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Tailosive identified the icon in the top left of the Ui as carplay. That is also significant<div>
Things to note: carplay icon, 1 wiper, rear ultrasonic, wiper fluid in door jam, and giant waterbottle
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This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Curtis Cibinel. Reason: Added other observations
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This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by