Scott
Forum Replies Created
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Hi Wayne, can you please post a link to the video where you saw this statement made by Jason?
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That is a good clarifying question, Eric. The video appears to show a measurement from seat cushion to headliner. However, a 34″ erect sitting height equates to only a 5th-10th percentile US male (depending upon which database you reference). That means 90-95% of US males have a sitting height greater than 34″.
There may be some additional space from seat cushion compression and seat recline. Nonetheless, 34″ would be quite tight and dependent upon significant seat recline. Since we have seen apparently 95th+ percentile height people sit in the vehicle (who presumably had around 95th+ percentile sitting height, though that does not actually always directly correlate to standing height), it makes me wonder if that 34″ dimension is actually from seat cushion to top of the seat headrest or such. There is clearly a dimension there that is actually greater than 34″ to provide the total headroom envelope needed to accommodate all the people we saw sit in the Aptera at Fully Charged and elsewhere.
For reference, a 95th percentile US male is about 38-39″ sitting height (again depending upon the database).
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It is interesting how they went with essentially just one interior even among the “options”, only now offering a few minor accents as the differentiator. The longstanding original options were much more interesting and diverse since they changed many of the primary material selections (not just a few small accents). Some folks were recently not happy with the heavy reliance on white in the decided current version, especially from the perspective of keeping the yoke and other surfaces clean, so the material choice will be important for keeping the interior looking good over time with use.
Not a big deal in the big scheme of things. Just different and more limited than the original plan. Hope it helps them get to production.
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Doors/windows that do not block outside view (see Peter J’s ideas elsewhere in forum)
Steering wheel (to replace yoke)
Paint (to replace wrap)
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I always appreciate your great ideas and graphics/renderings, Peter. Thank you for sharing these updates! As I have said for a long time, I am first in line to buy one of your aftermarket doors that removes the unfortunate view-blocking mid-window frames, even if at minimum just the upper half of the door is entirely clear for visibility. And your new ideas on the wheel pants are great. Although presumably a bit more aero drag, they have cool aesthetics (especially with the matching solid wheel covers) and completely address any potential clearance concerns.
You are diligently working on launching an Aptera aftermarket products company, right…? 😀
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Hi Gary, the white/gray gamma interior is one interior of one prototype vehicle. Aptera has never said this is the single interior option for Aptera going forward. The online vehicle reservation forms even still have the original Coast, Codex, and Vida interior color combinations plus a 4th customizable color option. Those may end up changing, but there is no indication that Aptera will follow the early Henry Ford approach of “you can have any color as long as it is black” for the interiors.
Regarding materials: They have discussed materials such as pineapple leather though later said they were also exploring other materials. So, finalized material selection is TBD (or at least not publicly released yet).
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Unclear in that assembly process where the discussed exterior wraps will be manually installed onto the exterior body pieces. Perhaps wrapping would occur as additional (just currently un-labeled) steps at final station 13+. Or perhaps it implies that wrapping would be done on each individual piece prior to assembly. TBD.
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The full solar package is a good thing and a good option for some personal preferences. I personally look at the rear window as the preferred option since I value exterior unimpeded field of view (which is why I dislike the side windows’ view-blocking frames 😊 ). I have selected the front hood solar option since that is over an opaque body panel like the standard roof, yet I like to be able to look over my shoulder too and therefore do not want the solar rear hatch. And I made that decision before my Subaru’s rear view backup camera stopped working recently (and that vehicle of course has a reflective center rear view mirror). I like options on visibility. I also don’t want to feel like I am driving in a dark enclosed box down the road.
I also have solar panels on my home that intentionally produce more than my entire home’s annual energy usage so that excess can go to an EV. Then add in that I intend to have the vehicle garage kept, especially with the “solar-phobic” wraps being discussed, and the rear solar hatch has little value to my use case, especially with the other two panels in place that are producing some power anyhow when out and about.
I of course very much hope that the Aptera company lasts for a century+. Nonetheless, I also account for risk factors of potentially needing to jury rig replacement video cameras and displays in the future for a “collectible” car that may not have direct parts suppliers if the company happens to close shop after initial production. I could always just insert a standard, inexpensive, commonly available reflective rear view mirror if ever needed or desired (assuming there is some decent rear facing line of sight, TBD).
Lots to think about. All panel option choices are certainly valid and good based on your preferences and use case.
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Hi Kevin, as Jonah mentioned, Aptera has not made any known or widespread effort to gather and cross-check customer inputs or requests, though at least some people on their staff are presumably aware of both recurring hot button buyer pain points and frequent option/upgrade requests that are often discussed on this forum and multiple other social media channels (Facebook, YouTube, Discord, etc.). Staff (generally marketing) has previously jumped in on this forum from time to time to clarify on something, though it has been very infrequent and light contact. So, the actual level of monitoring and forwarding info to engineering and decision makers is unknown. Long standing, frequent inputs on this forum from reservation holders and investors have not seemed to influence product direction or options hardly at all so far, though perhaps the recent tentative/vague revisiting of the third seat idea is a single example among many others that may have been brought back based on market potential and feedback.
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Many people seem to express concerns about the white on the yoke. That is understandable and I agree. However, I never hear anyone speaking about the four different interior color options (3 standard plus custom) that are still seen on all our reservation pages. Does someone have reliable information to confirm that for some reason all yokes will only have this white color, or potentially will the yokes have different non-white colors depending upon which interior color scheme you decide for your order? I have been assuming the latter and that the white is just for show on the prototype.
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That’s a great idea, Wes! And it already works within existing designs, parts, and options by just redefining what is considered baseline and what is considered different/option.
I already ordered the Off Road Kit when I put in my reservation a long time ago, and that was when the baseline bottom was supposed to be somewhere around 5″ off the ground. It is apparently now only a little more than 3″ off the ground, which makes this standard “low rider” height impractical for the real world.
This is one of several design choices where Aptera has prioritized being an academic research project that optimizes pure technical numbers (aerodynamics, in this case) over the post-purchase experience in real life for customers. Designing something from the beginning with intentionally “abradable” and disposable/replaceable parts (referring to the foam corners) just says “we know this is going to be a problem but we are going to leave it as is anyhow, with owners needing to replace parts and deal with it later”. These kinds of decisions will be the things that owners will likely gripe about in the future. They may even reduce value of early year models compared to later year models that address the issues (which were predictable though not actively addressed until real world owners repeatedly complain about it and changes get made in later year versions).
I hope Aptera gives serious consideration to your suggestion. Banged up Apteras running around does not do anyone any good, including the Aptera brand and public perception.
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Signed, and thanks for being bold on this.
I recommend that you prepare some well structured talking points regarding how this recommendation will sync (or not) with international standards. Making the US an island in a world of other standard(s) is a consideration. It could become analogous to the US not using the metric system while almost all other countries (except Myanmar and Liberia) do. Just food for thought since it will be a concern that you will need to proactively address to help this proposal gain more traction. Perhaps adapters are the solution, but nonetheless a clearly articulated plan around this aspect should be part of the proposal.
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Aptera is providing a Regulation A security, which can be offered publicly through general solicitation and advertising. Their ads are allowed and are SEC compliant.
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Thank you for providing this interesting video, Wayne. It does clear up the confusion that the post created. Nobody at Aptera has actually directly and officially stated that there is not going to be any rear glass hatch option. They have only stated that more people ordered full solar and that they are fully supporting this approach, especially upfront.
It is important to remember that both Jason and Chris tend to exaggerate sometimes to drive home the viewpoint they want people to believe. Jason redirects hard questions by going back to his “ethos” crutch on a regular basis, waxing philosophically. Chris talks about “amazing” things that come from a specific company viewpoint.
For instance, your video shows Chris stating that from the pre-orders “they knew what the most popular interior was.” How could that possibly be true? The white/gray interior was first sprung on everyone with Gamma. The online pre-order form only (still) includes Codex, Coast, and Vida options, NONE of which are the white/gray interior that they instead decided internally amongst themselves to go with.
I can see the appeal of full solar for many people and believe it is a great option to have. Nonetheless, due to the poorly designed view-blocking side door windows and the desire to not feel like I am driving down the road in a dark coffin with the rear blocked even more, I personally prefer the solar roof/hood option with an open view rear glass hatch and as such have retained my original non-LE order configuration.
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According to Aptera’s Jason Hill in an interview by Steve Lee of Aptera Owners Club, the hood is not intended to be opened except for unusual internal maintenance needs. For reference, you can go to 17:34 at https://youtu.be/xjIIlOPGf4Y?t=1054.
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Thank you for the recommendations, Gabriel. For whatever unknown reason, no email was ever received, including spam folders, etc. I had contacted my prior email contact address of invest@aptera.us plus a direct contact of a specific Aptera employee, though the employee did not seem to read my email since his response did not address anything. I contacted Carta, who referred me to Aptera, and then I used the separate email you mentioned (equity@aptera.us) plus the Computershares email and got a quick response from Aptera this time (even if not the prior two times). So, I now have the info needed, started the Computershare process, and am waiting on the physical confirmation letter in the mail at this point. Thanks again.
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I have not even received any notification of the switch-over. My Carta account says the shares are “cancelled” (I do have all records of their actual acceptance of funds and investment) though nothing has come from either Carta or Computershare as a follow-up communication. So, I don’t even know how/where to align the apparently transferred shares to a new TBD Computershare account. I wouldn’t even have known about this except for hearing about it secondhand through this forum. My contact info is up to date and correct. I have reached out to the Aptera investors team twice but they have been unresponsive. Frustrating.
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Hi Paul, Aptera publicly said a while back that there would not be a tow hitch option in the first production model, though they would like to add one in the undefined future. This is also stated on their public FAQs page, too.
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Most likely a phone holder (though not necessarily a charger, TBD). There was a phone holder in an earlier iteration of the overall center console in that general area, though it was horizontal and awkwardly arranged for access. There is still your open question of whether or not a phone can be easily charged from this holder. Also, the earlier version actually obscured the phone screen, which was (inappropriately) justified by saying that someone should not be looking at their phone while driving, anyhow. Nonetheless and no matter how good the idea of blocking a phone screen sounds on paper, people still glance at their phones while driving, using map apps, to see an incoming caller identification, and many other quick interactions.
Perhaps the dark shiny rectangle there is actually meant to be a phone that can just be laid back into that open reclining square area for easy access and visibility. Although it would not be “secured”, phones frequently are not fully secured anyhow (like cups, etc.) and that could be a workable design. However, how a phone’s charge cord would extend from the phone’s bottom plus where the cord would then go to (i.e., where is a USB connection or “cigarette lighter” / auxiliary power outlet) remain open questions. Since wireless charging is only useful for a subset of phones, requires more exacting alignment across different phone sizes / cases, and there are other devices that need to be charged beside phones, auxiliary power outlets and convenient cable access to those outlets will be needed to meet most customer’s needs.
That phone holder square perimeter should ideally have included a small channel cut out of its bottom edge to allow a cable to come down while allowing the rest of the phone’s lower edge to rest against the holder’s lower perimeter (without the cable lifting the phone off of the underlying surface to get itself over the holder perimeter’s edge). This would also have a side benefit of helping to keep the phone in its intended position while driving.
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David, Aptera employee Nicholas specifically stated that Aptera steering is not drive by wire. It is a mechanical system. They are uncertain if they will be able to do any variable rate steering, TBD. Start at 8:50 in this recent interview video from Fully Charged: https://youtu.be/adB-yszi01U?t=530
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Kearn, the reservation number stays the same even if you adjust your options.
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I agree with you, John, Curtis, and Ray. Unfortunately, the view-blocking mid-window frame is a done deal at this point. I am hopeful that someday they either have the window go half-way down from the top (which could preclude the need for the mid-window frame entirely while still providing a higher slot window) or offer a non-retractable full window option (which would be more aerodynamic, a lot fewer parts, and less expensive to produce) for those who may prioritize good field of view over a bit of aerodynamic gain.
It was worth noting how the required rear view reflective (non-camera) side mirrors are significantly angled upwards instead of positioned in a more optimal horizontal orientation. Reason: The frame would otherwise block view of the mirrors.
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Agreed on their reasoning of aerodynamic prioritization (over unobstructed field of view) and door shape limiting space to lower a full window. However, the addition of the mid-window frame presumably does add more parts and little bit more (not less) weight than a full window (which would not need the separated window sections, additional seals, and mid-window frame).
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Curtis, thanks for finding that info about PPF. Sounds hopefully better than the long discussed vinyl wraps, though still presumably not as durable or long lasting as paint. Just wanted to ensure you are considering other aspects to what you mentioned in your intro about purported downsides of paint:
“establishing of paint shops is expensive”: Yes. So, Aptera could outsource painting to a pre-existing paint shop with no capital outlay needed from Aptera.
“environmentally damaging”: These statements from elsewhere are unsubstantiated greenwashing to make vinyl wraps (if that is what will be used) appear better in comparison. Modern water-based vehicle paints have FAR lower environmental concerns than the vehicle paints of yesteryear. Also, vinyl is an extremely toxic material, both in terms of its manufacture and its later non-recycled disposal. And its environmental effects are cumulative, requiring multiple throwaway layers and associated infrastructure over the same time as one layer of normal paint. Just Google about the environmental effects of vinyl and read away.
“doesn’t mesh with the microfactories concept”: Actually, having pre-painted body panels delivered without needing wraps to be manually installed onsite would mesh just fine with a micro-factories concept.
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Riley, I definitely would pay extra as a stand-alone option for a fixed side window that eliminates the current view-blocking mid-window frame, even if it was not the full cool bubble door in the picture. As you mention, it would actually be easier and less expensive/complex to manufacture than the current setup. There could be two different types of doors available in the assembly line, handled like other current options.