Battery pack upgrade

[matt-gleason]

Aptera has a focus on right to repair. I’m wondering if this extends to upgradability. As battery technology advances, would owners be able to switch out their lithium ion packs for Aptera’s solid state packs of the same size? I know this is hard to promise since the new tech may require different cooling and space, but it would be a shame if lithium ion Apteras become e-waste when a solid state model comes out.

[Riley]

Most future battery tech will require less cooling which is really the only concern. With the current aptera battery pack layout it would be very easy for aptera or a third party to package any new technology and as long as it matches the power output will work seamlessly.

[GoSolar]

Solid State batteries are IMHO more or less just a theoretical concept.
Yes, there are lab versions, but I don’t see any of this ready for mass production for at least another 5 years or so.
I am not sure how much consideration can or should be given to a technology that is so far from being on the market.

On the other hand, I am certain that if the Aptera is a success with hundreds of thousands of them on the road there will be someone who will design a 3rd party battery replacement based on SSB that will fit the Aptera (as long as there are no patent issues around proprietary parts needed.

[Russell]

Unlike some other auto makers, aptera says when you buy their vehicle it’s yours. You’ll be free to repair, upgrade or modify as you wish (hopefully). I imagine there will be lots of experimenting going on with these things since they are so affordable. And when someone is successful at installing a SSB pack they’ll probably brag about it on the interwebs making their install details available to others. At least that’s how things worked with the Solectria enthusiasts back in the 90s and 2000s.

[david-marlow]

Aptera has made clear that there goal is maintainability, if you want to up grade just sell your old on and buy a new one. The difference in cost will most likely be less than the cost of an upgrade as many parts would have to be changed.

[vernon-sinnott]

My preorder includes the 400 mile range. It would be amazing if the 600 & 1000 mile range batteries could be swapped in like in the City One EV. https://acm.city/home/ What do you think?

• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by  Vernon Sinnott.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by  Wyatt Andrews.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 9 months ago by  Gabriel Kemeny.

[Markus]

The batteries won’t be swappable. They also would be a wee bit heavier to haul around than the four 2.5 kWh babies of the City One EV that already weigh more than 10 kg each.

[jeffrey-parker]

Having modules of batteries that are at different voltages is no good for the health of the batteries. Battery modules are built with individual cells that are tested and verified to be within a small voltage tolerance. When there is a large voltage difference between modules/cells charging and discharging is limited to the highest and lowest voltage module/cell. And battery balancing can only do so much.

It’s best to have the module/s start, maintain, and end its life at a state of equilibrium.

[curtis-cibinel]

Swapping anything less than the entire battery isn’t practical. The Chinese have battery swap stations and its a viable concept but the vehicle needs to be specifically engineered and have swap stations costing millions need to be build to work. These aren’t Duracell batteries.

[kerbe2705]

@Vernon SINNOTT Aptera’s batteries are buried inside the vehicle, above the radiant-cooling belly pan – to make the battery swappable you’d need to dismantle multiple systems. In most other EVs the battery pack resides under the floor of the vehicle and is accessible from the outside.

Plus the cost: The 400 costs $3900 more than the 250, the 600 $8700 more and the 1000 $19000 more. Using those figures, the 250 probably costs $2438 (62.5% of $3900) so you’d be buying extra battery packs for swapping at $6338, $11,138 or $21,348. In addition, battery packs are SERIOUSLY heavy…

[vernon-sinnott]

I knew about the additional costs for the 600 mile range & 1000 mile range. I didn’t consider the weight but I am a senior and my condo has underground parking. It would be a nice option to have an additional compatible battery pack that could be plugged in after charging on 110 voltage in my condo apartment.

[Lane-Costilow]

My worry relates to the battery pack size also. If climate change has a serious effect on our country’s electrical grid, I want to know that I can go as far as possible on all the Deming NM sunshine I can absorb, or feed my house and devices if necessary. I can afford models of all ranges, but I don’t want to stress my finances when the cost gets to $45,000. If I can’t upgrade, I would have to start out buying the long-distance battery pack.

[fiona-mclean]

If one orders a 400 mile range Aptera, can an extra battery be added at a future date for additional range?

[ray-holan]

Hello, Fiona. Hard to get a definitive answer on this question, especially prior to final production design. Informed opinion (and I emphasize it is opinion, not fact) is that bumping up your 400 mile range Aptera battery pack to 600 mile or above would not be possible. One reason is that there are suspension changes required to accommodate the added weight of the 600 and 1,000 mile packs. Taking the 250 mile pack to 400 mile pack size MIGHT be more possible, but is not assured. Not quite as simple as adding AA batteries to a flashlight;)

[jeffrey-parker]

Aptera.us/faq

Can I upgrade my battery pack at a later date?

At this time, we are not planning to have the battery upgradable in segments. Our goal is to build this vehicle modularly to keep the cost low and hopefully help us scale quickly. This could be a possibility in the future!

You may choose to upgrade your battery through the Aptera dashboard prior to the delivery and purchase time once signed into your account.

Also, adding a new battery pack to a degraded group will degrade the new pack and old pack at an accelerated rate due to voltage/capacity differences. You’d be better off replacing the small/old pack with a newer pack.

[frank-brants]

Can anybody confirm whether or not the Aptera battery pack with be upgradable?

There’s a “new battery chemistry that will change everything!!” announcement seemingly every day now, as there are a LOT of people working on the problem, but this one (Graphene (derived from natural gas) Aluminum Ion) looks extremely promising.

Franko

[jeffrey-parker]

Asked and answered frequently, see FAQ

Can I upgrade my battery pack at a later date?

At this time, we are not planning to have the battery upgradable in segments. Our goal is to build this vehicle modularly to keep the cost low and hopefully help us scale quickly. This could be a possibility in the future!

You may choose to upgrade your battery through the Aptera dashboard prior to the delivery and purchase time once signed into your account.

Now it’s unknown if Aptera plans to have a swappable battery pack when newer/better chemistries come available.

[T_Soph]

can we upgrade 400 mile battery to 600 mile battery after buying the first one ?

only the extra battery pack.

[OZ.]

From the information that is out there so far. (No clear guidance yet.) It would appear that you could upgrade from a 400 to a 600, but it would not be by adding 200 miles worth of batteries, but would involve replacing the 400 pack completely with a 600 pack, and the associated cost.

[raymond-nettleton]

1.) Any idea what changing from 400 to 600 would do to reservation order?

2.) It looks like this is an extra 20kWhr module. I would not think this is a deal breaker for battery supply constraints.

3.) What are the odds of a factory upgrade after the fact and or installing a module from a wrecked donner Aptera with similar battery age etc.

I could make it to the Oregon coast or Phoenix with one lunch/charge stop with 600 miles of range. It is tempting.

[OZ.]

Aptera will use a different base battery size for the 600 pack and another base battery size for the 1,000 pack. Modules additions would not be compatible. A full replacement of the battery pack might be.

[jorge-gonzalez]

For upgrading from 400 to 600 I suggest the following:

1) Don’t buy some eccentric color, and try your best to guess what the most popular 400 range build might be.

2) Avoid putting too many miles into the 400 range Aptera (only what you need).

3) When your desired range becomes available, sell your 400 range one and use the money to buy the 600 range one.

[rr1024]

If I get the 600 mile version will I be able to upgrade it later on?

[joshua-rosen]

Only by trading it in for a new car.

[craig-merrow]

I just spec’d the 600 mile version even though it’s later in the production run. I would imagine that in the future, with battery technology improving all the time, a better battery pack could be retrofitted that offers more range for the same physical size. Just a thought!

[jonah-jorgenson]

The answer is no, you can not upgrade your battery once you have selected a battery and delivery of the vehicle is made for the first production Aptera. The batteries are not plug and play. You may change your battery selection as many times as you want in your reservation. Once you are contacted to place an order and schedule delivery, your battery selection is fixed at the last level in your reservation/order.

The attery configurations have different weights and different control electronics for each battery configuration. Changes to suspension, battery control electronics, and other software changes may need to be made to accomodate another battery configuration. It is best to reserve/order the largest battery configuration you think you may need before delivery.

[Sam]

This area is liquid right now but I think the last I heard was that it is upgradeable provided you remain in the same sized battery group.

So if you purchased the 250 miler and later wanted to bump up to the next, you could by adding more batteries to fill that battery cavity to full capacity.

Whether DIY, I don’t know.

[ray-holan]

Hi, Sam. This has been discussed extensively. The majority of informed opinions repeated on this forum is that one cannot upgrade their Aptera in the field from say a 250 mile pack to the 400 mile pack. However, assuming a higher energy density cell becomes available later and it conforms to the physical dimensions of the original cells, that may provide an upgrade path so your original 250 mile pack might yield 275 or 300 miles with the upgraded cells. Of course, official verdict from Aptera has not been rendered as far as I know.

[rr1024]

Wow, from the design drawing I saw of the battery pack would not be that hard to make it upgradable. All you need is the space and a interlocking battery pack. Say with the positive at the top and negative at the bottom.

We did this with some custom Lion batteries and it worked great, would just have to scale it up a bit.

If they do it in say 250 mile increments, equiv in power, that would be perfect